Except “western liberals” are the ones out there protesting the genocide?
What even the fuck is this post?
Bro those aren’t liberals protesting.
you have no fucking clue who or what liberal is.
No, leftists are protesting the genocide. Liberals aren’t leftists.
This. Change the last line to, "U.S. armaments companies need to suck taxpayer money that would have been better spent on the taxpayers, so ‘we don’t see no genocide.’
Or, “We need to pander to evangelicals, who need Israel to exist so they can have their Book of Revelations, end of the world, apocalyptic jerk-off fantasies.”
Western Liberals are cheering on their president supporting the Genocide.
Can’t believe I’m posting in a Palestine thread again but here we go. I think people aren’t using the same words in the same way in this thread. In the last decade there has been a shift in how the word liberal is used. Two decades ago there were the neo-liberals, which said they were not big C conservative but were.
To separate themselves from the neo-liberals, liberals started calling themselves leftist. Which meant the neo-liberals as the only “liberals” remaining. So now the word liberal can mean a person on the left, or a person on the right, depending on the intent of the speaker.
So saying that the liberals are turning a blind eye to genocide is true, the speaker probably just means neo-liberals but ommitted the neo. Language is fluid, and confusing
It should be said that Neo-liberalism is an economic classification.
It has little to do with social liberalism.Yes it also doesn’t make a person “on the right” as this person is claiming (at least by American standards/definition), it makes them on the right side (almost the middle of the spectrum) of the left side of the spectrum.
Language is fluid, and confusing
And sadly, it seems like a lot of people can’t get past this part and desperately need solid definitions before they can make any decisions or have any stances. Places like reddit and even this burgeoning platform have shown us all time and time again that people as individuals may have great capability and potential, but as a group, when viewed as a collection, have incredibly hard time understanding basic ideas like “nuance,” the ability to view multiple, competing ideas simultaneously, or “context,” viewing the larger picture and how it relates to the details.
I’ve seen it really flare up with the trans issues and gender debates, where people with conservative-minded views act like words were discovered in a fucking meteor crater and there are only a limited number of words which have to have solid, rigid definitions.
where people with conservative-minded views act like words were discovered in a fucking meteor crater
Hahaha, I love that part. :D
im literally in one of the protest encampments in britain right now and the vast majority of people here are anti liberal leftists, there’s literally more overt marxists here than there are liberals
Western progressives and leftists are protesting, liberals by definition support current structures and systems to achieve populist goals, but humanitarian causes are not on their radar usually unless it’s the most milquetoast issue that everyone can agree on.
As others have said here, the names of things have changed a lot, and this is made more confusing by the fact that a large portion of the population has no idea how this shift has taken place, and conservatives still refer to their hated enemy as “libs” because they’re not very bright and names stick. It does throw them for a loop when you say “I’m not a liberal, I’m a leftist/progressive” and it’s a good way to remind them how dumb they really are.
This is .ml, they use “liberal” the same way republican fascists use the word “liberal” - a blanket statement to encompass “anyone who either doesn’t agree with or is not extreme enough for me”
Conservative goalposts moving.
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You mean conservatives.
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Holy fuck you spend your life online or what?
Don’t answer. It’s a rhetoical question.
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This comment section proves the meme so cleanly lol - anything to avoid calling it genocide and anything to give Israel a pass for doing it.
Very few outlets will show a graph of the casualties in Gaza nowadays.
But if you’re interested in this beyond the propaganda angle here’s a link to the casualties from the UN: https://unric.org/en/wp-content/uploads/sites/15/2024/04/Gaza_casualties_info-graphic_19_April_2024_1.pdf
Note how the graph is flattening. If this were a genocide, as the “perpetrators” gain control of more territory and eliminate enemy combatants you’d expect the casualties to increase (since there’s no one there to protect people) not flatten out as we’re seeing. Also note the Palestinian casualties being reported includes combatants (valid targets in a war) a support personnel (also valid targets in a war).
Also the UN has indicated there it’s likely some casualties have been counted multiple times. It’s a war after all, so we can’t expect these numbers to be 100% accurate.
The numbers are consistent with similar urban combat operations elsewhere. Sadly, in these kinds of conflicts, civilians often bear the brunt, especially in conflicts where there’s combatants that don’t wear uniforms. Also, Israel was not prepared to handle humanitarian issues in a drawn out campaign like this because Israel generally doesn’t do these kinds of campaigns. Hamas did know this war was going to occur well in advance but didn’t prepare for helping their civilian population. One suspects that may be because Hamas benefits from the suffering of the Palestinian people.
Sorry for the interruption. Now back to your regularly scheduled TikTok propaganda.
This graph looks more like what I would expect from war rather than what I would expect from genocide. But many people are calling this genocide, so it seems likely this is a more complex issue. Why are people saying this is more like genocide?
I wouldn’t expect one side to have complete control of the food, water, medical supplies, electricity, and aid of the other side in a war. Nor would I expect more than a million people experiencing catastrophic food insecurity (famine) or disproportionate casualties of 34:1 in a war. Nor the systematic destruction of public infrastructure or attacks on refugee camps and humanitarian aid.
The Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide, Article 2 defines it as: any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial or religious group, as such:
(a) Killing members of the group; (b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; © Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; (d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; (e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
Hundreds of Genocide Scholars have described this ethnic cleansing campaign as genocide because of the deliberate targeting of children/civilians and expressed intent by Israeli officials.
So, when we look at the actions taken, the dropping of thousands and thousands of bombs in a couple of days, including phosphorus bombs, as we heard, on one of the most densely populated areas around the world, together with these proclamations of intent, this indeed constitutes genocidal killing, which is the first act, according to the convention, of genocide. And Israel, I must say, is also perpetrating act number two and three — that is, causing serious bodily or mental harm, and creating condition designed to bring about the destruction of the group by cutting off water, food, supply of energy, bombing hospitals, ordering the fast evictions of hospitals, which the World Health Organization has declared to be, quote, “a death sentence.” So, we’re seeing the combination of genocidal acts with special intent. This is indeed a textbook case of genocide.
“A Textbook Case of Genocide”: Israeli Holocaust Scholar Raz Segal Decries Israel’s Assault on Gaza
Application of the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide in the Gaza Strip (South Africa v. Israel) and Summery by the International Court of Justice
i mentioned thank you before, but i want to mention again your response is a very well-written response and i hope it gets up-voted. I don’t really understand what those people saying the actions are justified would say in response to this, but i read it again and there’s a lot of convincing stuff in here. I’m still not sure about how Israel should be handling this instead if these actions are unethical, or if Israel is dealing with Hamas who wants to destroy it and is doing the best they can while facing an existential threat. Would there be a way of fighting Hamas that is less likely to impact civilians? Is there an alternative that they are not choosing?
First I want to say I appreciate that you are inquisitive and interested in learning more about the conflict. I’m not sure I’ll have time to answer all of your questions so I wanted to provide some of the best resources I’ve come across.
Articles will always have bias and can omit details, which is why I consider the most comprehensive sources to be works by New Historians and Investigative reports by human rights organizations. Their work is done on-the-ground and independently of each other, so cross referencing their works will give you the best picture IMO.
For an end to the conflict, I believe only a Secular Binational One-State Solution is the only real way forward because of the current reality of the occupied territories. I’ve linked a couple articles that show why some New Historians think that way.
List of Human Rights Organizations / Reports:
B’TSelem Report with quick Explainer
List of Books by New Historians:
If you don’t have access to a library or want to view these for free first, they can all be found on the Library Genesis. I believe a few are on audible too
The Concept of Transfer 1882-1948 - Nur Masalha
A History of Modern Palestine - Ilan Pappe
The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine - Ilan Pappe
The Biggest Prison on Earth: A History of the Occupied Territories - Ilan Pappe
The 1967 Arab-Israeli War: Origins and Consequences - Avi Shlaim
The Gaza Strip: The Political Economy of De-development - Sara Roy
New Historian Aricles on One vs. Two State Solution:
How Avi Shlaim moved from two-state solution to one-state solution
‘One state is a game changer’: A conversation with Ilan Pappe
How certain are reporters and unbiased people that phosphorous was used and what is the significance of that?
I know you are showing different articles about how this is genocide. Sometimes, like in global warming, you’ll see someone go “on the one hand, some scientists say the earth isn’t experiencing global warming, but some say it is” but there’s 10,000 scientists who say global warming is real and 2 who say it isn’t.
Do most experts in genocide or war crimes think something really awful is going on? I don’t think the ICJ is biased, so the answer is probably that if the ICJ is saying there’s a problem, there is, but upon reading about that it seems like ICJ complaint is only backed by certain countries, most of them Muslim. I have a hard time trusting the opinions of any Muslim countries because of how they treat LGBT people. Is this something on which pretty much all international human rights activists agree mostly that they are being treated in a way that amounts to genocide?
I get lots of information, but it seems like there’s a moral equivalency in the media between the two sides, and I don’t really get any perspective on what many humanitarians think. I wish there were 100 humanitarians activists chosen at random who could give opinions on this, because I’m still somewhat unsure of what to believe.
I think a lot of those people that are being hurt are probably not even political and just don’t want to die or have their kids die. It seems unfair.
Someone posted here a graph showing a flattening curve of deaths, meaning fewer and fewer people are dying over time, suggesting that claims that lots of people are about to die of starvation and dehydration may not be true possibly. (Unless of course, those people are on the verge of death and so it’s not reflected in the graph yet.)
I am probably able to be so neutral because I didn’t see all the TikTok videos that were out there. I am not a TikTok watcher, but apparently the videos were awful and there were a lot of them and it shows people the stuff the media isn’t showing.
I read the Democracy Now article. They are a good publication. I don’t understand how Israel could fight Hamas without it affecting civilians since Hamas is among civilian populations.
Perhaps it is better for me to realize I am too biased to have an opinion on this that is both educated and objective. The phosphorous thing bothered me. Is that a chemical weapon? Is there accurate information that they are using chemical weapons? I feel like that would change my view and make me see what they are doing as clearly evil and corrupt.
It’s because the term genocide has been weaponized. People are redefining the term to be “whatever Israel is doing” to create a false equivalency between what Hamas did on October 7 and the war those actions started. It’s a “both sides” mentality from people that confuse sympathy for Palestinians with sympathy for Hamas.
It’s very disgusting logic when you think about it. People feel that if they can prove that both sides have committed genocide, then the genocide perpetrated by Hamas is somehow justified.
There’s a lot of raw emotion at play here people that have been subjected to imagery of dead children tend not to be able to parse the logic they’re promoting.
But in the end Hamas committed genocide, Israel has not. That fact makes it difficult for people to attend protests where people cosplay as Hamas, so it’s generally rejected to preserve the convenient narrative and not feel guilty over not having the courage to call out blatant antisemitism.
I think it’s hyperbolic to say all the protestors are antisemitic. I’m sure some are, but perhaps some people just don’t want civilians starving to death. This does not imply that Hamas and Jewish people are both to blame in the same amount. I don’t know all the details of the complex history. The idea that all the people protesting are all secretly just racist and that’s the reason why they are protesting is a gross simplification.
Ew. 6 paragraphs of genocide apologia.
Genocide isn’t just murder. The UN defined it in the late 40s and it encompasses a lot more. “They aren’t murdering enough so keep on going with your propaganda” is a real 0 iq or worse bad faith take.
Statistics, especially statistics by those in power, are often not accurate. How can people know that this is accurate data and how would it even be possible to get accurate data in a situation like this? I also looked at the numbers again, and although the worst curves are flattening, there’s also a lot of really awful facts in that PDF. Is this the least cruel way Israel could fight Hamas or is unnecessary cruelty being implemented? Another poster said they may be using phosphorous. Is that true?
That plays both ways. If the data isn’t reliable why are people able to accuse Israel of genocide?
You admit lack of reliable evidence. It’s very disturbing that accusations of genocide are being levied when there is a lack of evidence.
That’s not actually true. I didn’t admit a lack of reliable evidence of genocide but just questioned how data collected in a war zone has such precise numbers when there are probably epistemological problems with determining numbers. I’m incredibly politically and historically ignorant on this conflict and would not, at my current level of knowledge, make a blanket conclusion about whether genocide can be concluded or not concluded based on reliable evidence.
This is a dumb take. “Liberals” have been protesting this war as well. It’s not complicated, now, that you are listening to moderate liberals is a different story. Might as well say swing voters.
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Yasmine said that?!? This changes everything. I don’t form opinions until it’s in a tweet and reposted somewhere else.
The most important part is the argument must have a punch line. I can’t do anything until I hear the punch line.
Pro-tip: you can use a search engine to confirm information.
On Experts saying it, this is one example: https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/un-expert-says-israel-has-committed-genocide-gaza-calls-arms-embargo-2024-03-26/
On Israel saying it, this has enough for you to start your research: https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-south-africa-genocide-hate-speech-97a9e4a84a3a6bebeddfb80f8a030724
… I dont doubt the information is correct but this tweet is a useless memeified “hot take”.
I agree that I am not a fan of this format, but the original comment implied skepticism about the information because of the format, rather than merely expressing discontent with the format.
I wrote it. That was your interpretation.
The exclamation was sarcasm, as if, I knew or cared who “Yasmine” was.
It’s ok to not understand something as it written but don’t tell me what I was trying to imply.
I totally disagree with your point. Yasmine resulted in a lot of dialogue on this topic. Perhaps people learned things, perhaps people became more educated. Why can’t Yasmine express her views in a witty interesting way? If you think she’s wrong, why not address the substance of her point?
I’m just disgusted by the culture where something “has” to have a punchline to be a relevant topic of discussion. We can’t just say, hey let’s talk about this. No, someone or something has to be demonstrated to be foolish/absurd. It prempts controversy and makes everything prefomative.
There are two sides. One side supports genocide, the other side does not. It’s pretty clear tbh
Hamas supports genocide against Jews. I think that’s the essence of the complexity, both sides of the conflict seek the eradication of the other. If we removed all weapons and defenses from Israel it wouldn’t be enough to stop the bloodshed, it would just change which people were dying. The first step to a lasting peace is to end the genocide in Gaza, but it will take many more steps to reach the goal.
Hamas supports genocide against Jews
They have continuously denied these claims. What you are referencing was their manifesto when they were a fringe group that most Palestinians opposed. Hamas has long withdrawn that document
Was the 2017 revision fully ratified? Even the revised charter seeks the destruction of Israel. To me it seems obvious that religion underscores the conflict, but even viewed as a territorial dispute, it’s clear that lasting peace is a challenging puzzle.
The destruction of the settler colonial and genocidal state where racism and treating Palestinians as second class citizens is part of its foundation is a good thing, and must not be mistaken for “the destruction of jews”. The charter explains this disambiguation.
Do you not see how that complicates the conflict? It’s not as simple as Israel ending the genocide to stop the violence, they would need to cease to exist.
I’m pretty sure the western liberals are the ones in the west calling it a genocide.
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Biden and Clinton would be considered liberals… Progressives are the ones calling it a genocide (and you know, anyone with a conscience)
Hillary I wouldn’t consider a liberal, just less Republican than Trump. Bill, back when he was president, he was a bit liberal for the time, but he was no Obama, that dude could run for a third term on an independent ticket and win.
Given our current options I have no doubt Obama could run again, people would vote for him and they would amend the constitution so he could serve again. Even with the Republican majority supreme Court.
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Economics: Progressives >>>>>>>>>>> liberals > conservatives >> maga
Social issues: Progressives >> liberals >>>>conservatives > maga
Liberals=neoliberal=establishment Dems Conservatives=neocons= establishment Reps
They are just racist and hate Arabs and Muslims
Complex, maybe?
Two sides? Sure. There are the people getting killed by genocide, and the side committing genocide.
So they might be half right?
Search the web for “maximize Palestinian casualties”
I have a question. I am partly ethnically Jewish and have not educated myself on this conflict. I haven’t done that because I figured I am too biased to form an option on this, despite not feeling particularly Jewish. I am also very concerned and fearful about Islam because of their views on LGBT people and notice that when Islam spreads, even in mild or moderate form, often it results in a certain percentage becoming radicalized, thereby harming LGBT people. There are zero Muslim dominant countries that are nice to LGBT people. That being said, by doing nothing, am I condoning genocide? I could donate to an organization that is non-political like donating food to the people in Palestine who are supposedly starving through an organization. I’ve done nothing and have been somewhat purposefully ignorant of the facts because I know they are all so awful, and I am often dealing with depression anyway. I’m also not doing well financially so whatever I do and think may not matter. Is there a way to become educated on this topic with unbiased facts that aren’t influenced by religious ideas? How many Palestinian people are facing genocide and is this hyperbole? Am I the same as the people who just ignored the Holocaust in World War II? I also know the Palestinian elected Hamas which wanted to destroy Israel completely, which provides a safe sanctuary to Jewish people, and that the Jewish people made it hard for Palestinians to have many freedoms through oppression or harsh regulation even before the attack that happened when Palestinian terrorists/warlords/protestors killed a lot of people including children. I don’t have an opinion on things and am worried my ignorance is evil. I feel like this meme is partly about people like me and perhaps it should change me.
I haven’t done that because I figured I am too biased to form an option on this
Some of the most impactful voices against this genocide are Jewish.
That being said, by doing nothing, am I condoning genocide?
Yes. Genocide is genocide, irrespective of who it is aimed at or what else they did.
I could donate to an organization that is non-political like donating food to the people in Palestine who are supposedly starving through an organization … I’m also not doing well financially so whatever I do and think may not matter. … Am I the same as the people who just ignored the Holocaust in World War II?
If you can afford to, then by all means donate. If you can’t, that’s fine. You are not responsible for things beyond your control. What you can do is try to learn more about the history of this conflict, and be honest with yourself. Again, you have limited time and resources, so no one is asking you to research every atrocity going on in the world.
How many Palestinian people are facing genocide and is this hyperbole?
Palestine is now divided into two pieces - the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. Those living on the Gaza strip are now facing genocide.
Israel … provides a safe sanctuary to Jewish people
To some Jewish people. Palestinian and African Jews face discrimination from white Jews.
The Jewish people made it hard for Palestinians to have many freedoms through oppression or harsh regulation even before the attack that happened.
The Israeli government did this. Many Israelis opposed and even protested this.
I feel like this meme is partly about people like me and perhaps it should change me.
I think it is more about hypocritical politicians and ‘reporters’. It is great that you want to learn more. Be warned though - some of the things being done in Gaza are very fucked up.
Hey man, you’re asking the right questions. There’s not really anything you can do except be willing to say what Israel is doing is wrong. Calling your representative in Congress is free, and the more they hear from us the more they’ll pay attention.
On a personal note, a lot of this would be good stuff to bring to therapy, especially if you struggle with depression. Just if you don’t already have one, I’d highly recommend speaking to one to work through some of these big important questions you’re having.
I don’t know if what they are doing is wrong. I am incredibly ignorant about this topic, and even after reading the posts in the thread, a lot of the information is contradictory and seems mutually exclusive in some ways. In other words, someone is providing an incorrect perspective or incorrect information and it’s not as though both perspectives somehow can coexist logically. My gut feels like Palestinians are probably been treated in an unethical way, but I still feel ignorant of everything.
I also don’t really understand what Israel should be doing instead. What do protester’s claim Israel should be doing differently?
I don’t believe in therapy.
This is not political humor, it’s not funny, it’s reposted here to cause arguments and nothing else. Not very nuanced at all.
Arguments in a politics group? How dare they
I find it funny.
i mean, yeah it is complex. It’s fucking war.
War isn’t simple. Let alone war with history, and multiple decades, coming up to a century worth of history soon.
This war is the kindergarten equivalent of “no i said it first”
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i didn’t say it wasn’t? Are you ok?
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show me where on the doll i said it wasn’t genocide.
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my original comment? Didn’t even once mention genocide.
Just talked about the fact that there’s an ongoing war, which is very much true. I don’t think there’s any global entity that hasn’t classified this as a war. Even germany was committing war during their little escapade.
Do i think that israel is committing genocide? Idk, it depends on the definition of genocide on whether or not that actually holds up the local population at hand, because i know very little about the demographics of the middle east, weird how that one works.
Do you think war IS genocide, and that genocide is not war? Because that would be a weird way to phrase things. I don’t think you can classify war itself as genocide, based on the very act of war itself, being fundamentally irrelevant most of the time, and the times it has been relevant, it’s only tangentially relevant.
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Wait, you mean the conflict can’t be broken down into one simple tweet from some random woman?
you mean to tell me the conflict that started officially in the year 1948 has nearly 70 years of history up to now, and has many involved parties, all of whom reside in the middle east, which is notorious for calm conflict resolution?
The tweet does not claim to summarize the entire conflict, but only promote the undeniable fact that it is a genocide.
again, a war cannot in it of itself be genocide, a war however can perpetrate genocide.
Much like a car can perpetrate transportation, but in it of itself is not literally transportation.
Amazing, you stopped genocide with semantics. Truly inspiring feat.
i didn’t stop it. Do you actually have 3 braincells?
A war can happen independently but at the same time as a genocide, and you can have a genocide without a war, the two are not intrinsically related.
By this argument i’ve completely destroyed the transportation industry, because there is no more fucking transportation.
You do not have to say it “again”. I ignored it the first time because there’s no logical reasoning or evidence for this. Until you do, it’s not something that I can respond to.
there literally is logical reasoning for this.
Notably the fact that war and genocide are LITERALLY defined as different words.
It being a war doesn’t negate the simple conclusion that it is a genocide. If you have reason to deny that, you should provide proper reasoning rather than the hand wavy “it’s a war, surely it has to be complex!”. There are complex aspects to a war that do not negate the simplicity of classifying it as a genocide. The conclusion is simple due to the mountains of undeniable evidence.
What gets me is people who throw a fit when you point Hamas isn’t exactly awesome, even if they are fighting for very justified reasons
They are literally fighting for the extermination of the Jewish state and aim to eradicate the Jewish population from the region.
The Islamic colonial powers have a long history of persecuting the Jewish population in the region which was (and should Hamas be successful, again will be) every but as despicable as what Israel are doing to the Palestinians now.
In this conflict, the only possible justice is for both sides to lose and a two state solution be implemented.
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Yeah it’s interesting to see the rhetorical dichotomy that’s developed.
as far as i can tell, from the history i’ve seen, neither side is particularly justified IMO. Including the lengthy history of documented treaty negotiations as well.
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i don’t see the problem with that statement, it’s perfectly accurate as far as i can tell.
Obviously genocide is bad, i don’t feel like i have to expand on that aspect of it. But i also feel like it’s worth pointing out that they kinda fucking asked for it.
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why would this make me a fascist, and for what reason should i kill myself?
When you’re a country at war, over disputes of territory, which goes back to biblical roots, there is a point where genocide probably starts to look normative. Or at the very least, completes the CBA. Plus we’re also talking about guerilla warfare here, notable for the fact that it has incredibly high civilian death rates.
Wtf
what the fuck what?
Yeah it’s just a nasty situation. Israel is western colonial disaster
yeah. There is ultimately no good outcome to this situation. Even with a one or two state party, it’s just not going to be nice.
It being a war doesn’t negate the simple conclusion that it is a genocide.
not inherently, but it being a genocide doesn’t also automatically include the whole of the war.
Ever notice how literature on the holocaust mostly talks about the fact that the germans murdered like what? 13 million people, i couldn’t tell you off the top of my head, rather than how germany uses military tactics to their advantage. And fails at them.
Also contextually, genocide should be used in past tense. You think the jews under nazi regime were bitching about the mass homicide? Nah they were busy getting the fuck out of germany so they weren’t fucking murdered.
Ironically, it’s a pretty fucking first world problem to be able to sit here and complain and cry about genocide that isn’t even happening to you. But presumably happening to another party, whom we’ve deemed the recipient of it, presumably ignoring the entire history of this conflict so far. As well as the fact that it’s hard to determine any real numbers on this, considering it’s literally a war.
Why aren’t people complaining about russia genociding their soliders? They’re doing the same fucking thing! This is arguably worse than israel palestine right now because these are the countries own fucking people.
The reason i said “its a war, it’s complex” is because i’d literally be here for 3 fucking hours, typing until i hit the world limit multiple fucking times just to iterate my point once. Forgive me if i’m being a little brief here.
Like don’t get me wrong, i get it, i’m not a huge fan of the fact that we’re sending material to an ally who is using it effectively murder without consequence. Only to be brushed off by our leadership, i would think complaining about the fact that we’re doing this shit, rather than the fact that what we’re doing is enabling another independent entity to murder thousands of people every day, or whatever the stat is.
This is like being a friend of someone who’s experiencing an abusive relationship, and instead of telling them directly, you bitch at their abusive partner directly, expecting that to make them treat your friend better? Somehow?
There are complex aspects to a war that do not negate the simplicity of classifying it as a genocide. The conclusion is simple due to the mountains of undeniable evidence.
also linguistically, you literally cannot classify a war as a genocide. That’s not fucking possible, this is like classifying a car as a boat. A war can include genocide, as demonstrated ever so lovingly by the germans during that one world war. They are two distinct parts of a collective whole here.
Why aren’t people complaining about russia genociding their soliders?
Barely down the comments section and I already see Russia lmao.
This is like being a friend of someone who’s experiencing an abusive relationship, and instead of telling them directly, you removed at their abusive partner directly, expecting that to make them treat your friend better? Somehow?
The fuck else do think everyone hating on and protesting in college campuses and against Biden is doing? Also, he is not my friend or your friend. And he is in no abusive relationship. This is 2 serial killers hanging out and giving each other assistance. You can’t kill either one as they are well protected, but you can slash their tires.
also linguistically, you literally cannot classify a war as a genocide. That’s not fucking possible, this is like classifying a car as a boat. A war can include genocide, as demonstrated ever so lovingly by the germans during that one world war. They are two distinct parts of a collective whole here.
Ah metaphysics, my old friend. War is not a static, isotropic constant that remains unchanged throughout the universe like a water molecule or the speed of light. The nature of the war itself fundamentally changes depending on the millions of factors that give it context, amongst them, genocide being a big one.
Islamists calling for a genocide for Israel are idiots. And so are the demonstrations.
It’s extremely sad, that Palestinians are dying and suffer so much. There should be more humanitarian aid and the war should stop. But calling to arms and supporting hamas is a no-go for me.
You cannot justify actions to others, just by acting like they did. It’s logical nonsense, you are basically like what you hate then.
Jfc, this again. Refusing to support the dropping of bombs all over a population ≠ supporting Hamas. You should delete everything you said after the word “but” and just leave it at that.
🤡
I mean, it is a complex issue, and there are two sides of it. One of the sides is doing a genocide. The other side makes attacks when they can, killing much smaller numbers. If suddenly the power balance switched, I’m not convinced Hamas wouldn’t go for doing a genocide.
What actually matters here is that nobody should be doing genocides, both sides have reason to say, “they started it!”, and it’s not going to end until both sides can accept that yes, shit happened, bad things were intentionally done by people, and everyone needs to move on, or there will be another round, and another, and another, and another…
Hamas would definitely flip the script and start ‘genocidin, that’s the express goal of the organization, in their own words. The complete destruction of the Israeli state, through any means necessary.
I honestly don’t even disagree with that goal, Israel should never have existed in its current capacity in the first place. But I can’t pretend that one theofascist state is better than another.
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See it’s this kind of reply that tells me you don’t know fucking anything about Hamas. If you haven’t read any of the Hamas covenant, please do so before displaying any more ignorance.
Israel as a state should be dissolved and land returned to Palestinians, but Hamas is not sunshine and rainbows
I’ve included the highlight reel below.
“Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it.” (Preamble)
The Day of Judgment will not come about until Moslems fight Jews and kill them. Then, the Jews will hide behind rocks and trees, and the rocks and trees will cry out: 'O Moslem, there is a Jew hiding behind me, come and kill him." (Article 7)
“The day the enemies usurp part of Moslem land, Jihad becomes the individual duty of every Moslem. In the face of the Jews’ usurpation, it is compulsory that the banner of Jihad be raised.” (Article 15)
“Ranks will close, fighters joining other fighters, and masses everywhere in the Islamic world will come forward in response to the call of duty, loudly proclaiming: ‘Hail to Jihad!’. This cry will reach the heavens and will go on being resounded until liberation is achieved, the invaders vanquished and Allah’s victory comes about.” (Article 33)
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Do you think when the kkk revises their language to be all dog whistles instead of outright saying what they mean that this changes their goals?
Israel are the baddies right now, but if Hamas had the power Israel has they would be commiting genocide. The key is Israel has the power and they are killing people. It’s okay to focus on the current wrong without lying about a subset of the current victims…
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If I was part of the kkk but realized I believed nothing the kkk believed in, would I stick around? Pretending that just because they improved their public relations means that their organization radically changed their beliefs is magical thinking. I don’t believe in magic.
Hamas still openly believes that all of the Middle East is for Muslims only, that all of it should be under control of Sunni Muslim fundamentalist control, and that no non Muslims should even live in the Middle East. How do you think they believe they will get to that point?
Again, Israel is entirely responsible for their actions, but pretending that Hamas are just regular old freedom fighters is entirely a lie. The victims here are the civilians, there are far too many victims. But I don’t look at the religious fundamentalist bigots and see victims, they are part of the problem. All be it without the power to enact their hate fully.
Why worry about all that when we can have a Theofascist state right here at home!
I honestly don’t even disagree with that goal
Wowzer
