Welcome again to everybody! Make yourself at home. In the honour-timed tradition of our group, here is the weekly discussion thread.
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Reading Liberalism: A Counter-History and I finally feel like I’m getting to the really juicy bits (2/3 through the book. The earlier half was good and probably a necessary foundation, but got a bit repetitive-feeling).
My thoughts (spoilered because long):
first off if any motherfucker invokes divine providence to justify inequality: gulag
second: liberal theorists love to draw arbitrary lines in the sand and say that their principles and reasoning only apply to one side. The distinction they drew between “civil” and “political” laws, or the “totally good and normal laws that help the rich” vs the “impermissible welfare laws interfering with the divine will of providence that the poor stay in poverty”, the exclusion of labour relations as an inherently non-political question, etc. Often these seeming contradictions and their unconvincing justifications follow from unquestioned beliefs like the inferiority of “other races”, the belief that the poor deserve to be poor, and simple self-centeredness (only considering the freedoms of people like them, typically upper-class, of the dominant racial group, etc. and disregarding the lack of freedoms accorded to other groups)
third: The quote about anti-semites and ridiculous arguments applies. They will in one breath condemn you as backwards and wishing to bring back absolute monarchism by expanding the state, bring back medieval forms like the guild in the form of unions, or take on the pre-modern role of the established church (providing welfare is equated with the church’s organized charity), and in the next breath glorify the past as a simpler time when people (serfs) weren’t so uppity, but also a golden age of individualism (for Great Men, anyhow, entirely disregarding the lack of autonomy of the serfs, and of course disregarding great/influential individuals leading uprisings against them, e.g. Toussaint L’Ouverture.) Much of this is echoed in modern discourse. Using necessary force to implement the will of the people against the formerly powerful, is condemned as authoritarian, while using more distributed power structures to confine the majority of the population in effective servitude is totally fine and normal and Democratic even.
fourth: We should be mindful of those we ally with and their reasonings. The christian abolitionists in the US were on the right side of history when condemning and fighting the chattel slavery practiced in the south, but their reasons for hating it were not necessarily aligned with a purely socialist perspective. They tended to see it more in terms of the sinfulness it enabled on the part of slaveholders(sexual assault was pervasive, among other things), of not allowing slaves to be converted to christianity, and of forcing them to be complicit in the above sin, so when slavery was officially abolished (outside of prisons, anyhow), the christian-fueled radicalism of the abolitionists crumbled, despite the persistence of incredible levels of oppression against the freed slaves in the south, both politically and economically, not to mention the blind spot many had for the oppression of Black people in the north. For many, their conviction against slavery came more from the sin aspect than from a genuine belief in equality, or even in simply improving the lives of the enslaved.
I could probably write more but I don’t have the time. The book is good.
Really funny seeing the in-fighting between the “civility and democracy” libs and the “trump is the worst thing since Hitler” libs right now.
It really feels like the media is circling in on Biden to do the kill shot any moment now. I’ve never seen this before, the media just flip on a president they were once so fiercely loyal to.
I’m surprised they’re turning on him and raising the issue at all. He didn’t seem substantially worse than his 2020 campaign run and Axios (I think) had already floated the “staffers privately tell us he’s senile” piece earlier in his term but it didn’t seem to stick. His current state can’t be a surprise to power brokers so why hang him out to dry now?
I suspect they’re trying to avoid a primary. The 2020 election showed the average democrat voter is too dumb to pick up on media hints to the insiders’ favorite candidate and the average well-established democrat is too greedy and delusional of their own personal brand recognition to step aside. The pipeline of “chosen ones” that can be legitimized without much pushback at the convention seems empty.
Whoever edited/translated this Penguin Classics edition of The State and Revolution is such a turbo-lib, my god. This preface started off fine as a historical context and introduction to what Lenin and the bolsheviks were up to prior to the October revolution but after that it completely falls apart into really blatant revisionism and hard-boiled anti-authoritarian snark that I’ve come to expect from only the most blue-checked among us. I think this is what will get me to skip all these introductory editorials from now on…
This is exactly what happened to me with the spanish version of “The State and Revolution”. A turbo lib did the preface and it was full with anticommunism. I wonder why bother doing a preface then.
Simple. These are warnings for libs. In the unlikely event a lib picks up State and Revolution, they’ll be armed in advance with all the usual thought terminating cliches.
As my wife says, there’s a reason they put it in the beginning and not after everything else!
Lol I started listening to the audible version of the Spanish translation of capital and returned it within about half an hour. I thought the whole thing had been rewritten. Maybe it was only the editor’s intro after all.
This preface is seriously like almost a third of the total length of the text. I subjected myself to way too much of it hoping it would get better before just skipping it. I think all the explicitly Marxist texts have something like this going on; never once did I see stuff like this in Proudhon or Kropotkin.
Great news: the soviet union never fell! Russia is a communist country! Or at least that’s what my dad said to me when I told him that the soviet union fell in 1991 and it was a huge TV event. He just said “no it didn’t”, lol. The man is 60. He’s a regular “left” leaning liberal, so this confuses me. Does he think the fall of the soviet union was some sort of false flag op or some shit???
Ive heard so many American liberals say that modern Russia is communist lol
Me wistfully staring at the flag of the USSR while they say this
he probably just has such a terrible understanding of the USSR and modern Russia that he thinks the change was in name only and feels smart about seeing through this clever communist trick
Geniouse anticommunist boomer dad…
The USSR didn’t fall, it was illegally and undemocratically overthrown
I’ve seen people who think Putin is bringing back the USSR but this is a whole new twist to that idea.
Yeah I don’t even know wtf to say. I didn’t even give him the “workers of the world unite” spiel, I only said that US advisors acknowledge Putin not wanting war beyond Ukraine, and I get this galaxybrain shit…
Crítical support to Spain for preventing England winning
Am I being overly cynical, or is the Pope more of a celebrity than a politician?
since the church has no military/economic power, his influence is purely cultural so yes the pope is basically a celebrity.
Wouldn’t the Catholic Church be closer to a corporation in that sense? With all the churches they own and the land those churches take up. Granted, even within that framing, the pope is arguably still more celebrity than CEO, if only because there is such contention with the Catholic Church and trying to make any sort of decisions that have broad impact on Catholic practice risks another schism.
Hey comrades, theres a local (to me) org RED ANT, doing an online conference on China titled China is not an enemy. Is China really an imperialist Country?, I imagine theres somewhere to share on lemmygrad, but can someone nudge me in the right direction?
You mean a Lemmygrad community? You can post it here on /c/[email protected]
Thank you comrade!
If England will win the Euro’s I’ll stop watching football. Seeing Harry Mouthbreather Kane lift the trophy will be my death.
We got cursed after beating the Soviet Union in the final
I’m currently on vacation in France with my family.
kill macron
Today I had a funeral of someone on my gf’s family side. The deceased was a very active Christian Evangelical believer and the funeral was in an Evangelical Church. I was raised a Catholic but haven’t been to church for a long time.
The funeral consisted of Christian songs, prayers and bible readings. There were a lot of younger people (13-15 year olds) there. It surprised me that they all knew every prayer, reading and song front to back. Like, I couldn’t imagine any Dutch youth still so active in the church. But they exist, I guess. It’s the Bible Belt for a reason. Big cultural surprise, in my own country.
Hexbear is currently experiencing a server outage, will update when its back.
It’s because of the trans thread isn’t it
1400 comments broke the site lol
But the October 7 post had like 3k right?
Yes and the largest hexbear post ever has like 6990 comments, doin a bit lol
on two threads
Trans mega STRONG
The stalinist mods have attempted multiple times to stop us. They can’t say it is the reason as they have to keep up a facade of queer acceptance, but we know the truth.
Hot take, 3x3 basketball is a more fun sport than regular basketbal
That’s not much space to move around in. I could see how it would be much more fast paced.