Concerning.

When I said “if true” I meant more “if it is accurate” not that I think it is a lie by the evil Russians. News coming out of a Russian person’s mouth doesn’t automatically make it fake (which is what the lib above is saying)

Okay, no more sarcasm: what do they get out of this? Seriously, what is the point? I am guessing that they honestly don’t know that we have already read or heard these generic opinions umpteen thousand times already, but what do they expect from restating them as blandly and insubstantially as possible? Is a reply like ‘you’re wrong’ or ‘I don’t like this source’ supposed to utterly blow our minds away? Can they simply not think of anything better to do with their time? What is the fucking point of any of this?

Buddy, about 10 Ukrainian soldiers die for every russian casualty. Russia has 10 times the artillery, still a fully functioning air force, can supply arms and ammunition ad infinitum. Where do you see Ukraine winning?!

Which numbers would those be?

By CNN, Fox News, NBC, ABC, XYZ numbers or by actual numbers?

God… You fucking libs are delusional…

get a load of this worldnews ass here

get a load of this lost slava ukraini over here

The only one denying anything is you downplaying the Ukra-Nazi’s atrocities with your false equivalences.

Russia has always and still does recognize Ukraine as a sovereign state, for better and worse. Russia’s main issue is Ukraine joining NATO, a racist and fascist organization dedicated to fighting socialism and Russia itself for decades, despite promises that NATO wouldn’t expand. And the Ukrainian government’s multiple decades since then of denying the heroism of the Red Army, systemically downplaying the Nazis, the holocaust, renaming streets after nazis and demonizing Russia and removing Russian’s cultural heritage and history of Ukraine and committing ethnic cleansing of Russian-speaking civilians and LAUNCHING BOMBS AT CIVILIANS THAT DECLARED THEIR SECESSION FROM UKRAINE you stupid ass bootlicker.

You Ukra-Nazis act like innocent victims when it was Ukraine that started this conflict, and now you blame Russia for having the gall to defend itself, despite Russia refusing to attack your shithole country for almost 8 years, turning the other cheek for 8 years, and refusing to recognize the Donbas republics as independent from Ukraine for over 8 years, despite them pleading Russia for help.

You fascist nutjobs purposefully murder civilians, rape civilians, kidnap and press-gang teenagers into your shitty army, and let out PEDOPHILES AND MURDERERS and threw out guns like goddamn candy and told people to shoot anyone who looked or spoke Russian, and you still claim Russia are the evil ones for setting up humanitarian corridors and rescuing civilians, all while calling them racial slurs like “orcs”, while still blaming them for horrific atrocities like Bucha.

You’re scum of the Earth

You have a definite delusion if you think Russia got their asses handed to them. Tens and tens of billions of dollars, and yet the Ukra-Nazis and NATO have lost several hundreds of thousands of soldier’s lives as cannon fodder, compared to 30,000 Russian soldier’s losses, and for every Russian soldier that is killed, Ukraine has 10 dead soldiers.

Your army is so pathetic that even with tens of billions of dollars of equipment and aid and pretty decent military technology, you still use children as human shields while you’re busy raping them at the same time, and you resort to using hospitals and schools as bases of operation (that you cleared out or murdered students or patients) and set up military equipment in civilian areas to draw soldiers there, and DROP WHITE PHOSPHOROUS ON CIVILIANS.

You Ukra-Nazis are so mind-bendingly stupid and evil and corrupt, and to top it off, you accuse anyone with a brain or a heart of being evil or brainwashed for not believing everything they read. You call Russians bootlickers, yet Russians are way less trusting of their own government yet still way more reasonable than you mindless fascist banderites are.

Get fucked.

Russia and Ukraine have a long and bloody history

No they fucking don’t! They have an extremely short history of conflict, this shit kicked off literally just ten years ago!!

In 2014, the US launched a coup against Ukraine to replace the democratically elected government with Nazis (and I don’t mean that hyperbolically, I mean actual Hitler-worshipping Nazis) who immediately started persecuting the minority of Russian-speaking Ukrainians. After eight fucking years of doing nothing as the Ukrainian Nazis constantly escalated, Putin finally got it through his thick skull that the west was never going to treat them as an equal and launched an incredibly restrained military action to knock the coupists out of the Ukrainian government and protect the now-autonomous Russian-speaking regions.

The result is this:

When a peace deal was about to be signed in April 2022, Boris Johnson personally flew to Kiev and through a combination of lies and threats convinced Zelensky to tear up the deal and continue fighting.

The unfathomable devastation, the destruction of enormous swathes of infrastructure and the catastrophic death toll of Ukrainian men are squarely the fault of the Nazi regime in Kiev and their western - let’s not beat around the bush - their US handlers. Ukraine had a peaceful and beneficial relationship with Russia from independence all the way up to the moment the US took direct control of it and suicided it into Russia for their own geopolitical gain.

They won’t get to do that after everything they did for 10 years and not leaving Donbas alone.

They attacked and attacked for so long and are now whining and crying that their rump state is coming to an end.

They are because they’re desperate since they wasted their entire capable male population for furthering their nazi cause and delaying their inevitable downfall for a few years.

They won’t get to be that ever again, civilians in eastern and southern Ukraine will get to leave in peace since they didn’t want any of this or be part of it since 2014 , but Banderites will never be left alone until they’re finally wiped out and no longer a threat to anybody and Ukraine as we know it doesn’t exist as a state, like Isn’t real won’t in the near future.

Serious brain worms. The long history of Russia and Ukraine is that Europe invaded Russia through Ukraine, kills millions of Russians, and Russia beats Europe back. First it was Napoleon, marching across Europe building supply chains and logistics as it invaded Ukraine then marched across the country to the border with Russia, invaded Russia, killed millions of Russians in one of the bloodiest campaigns in history, and Russia beats them back.

The second time was Hitler, who wrote a book detailing how much we he wanted to invade Russia to end the worker state and enslave the Slavs. The Third Reich marched across Europe, building supply chains and logistics as they invaded Ukraine, marched across the country to the border with Russia and invaded Russia, killing millions with the most advanced military ever fielded at that point in history. Russia beat them back, then marched all the way to Berlin and destroyed them at their home. The West finally mopped up the last 20% of the Nazis and met the Soviets well West of Berlin.

Now the European scourge helmed by the USA and developed into a transnational nuclear military called NATO has been building supply chains and logistics across Europe and finally began building out in Ukraine. And this time, Russia decided not to wait for yet another invasion because this time, nukes are in play.

The history between Ukraine and Russia is not bloody, it’s the history between Europe and Russia. The Banderites mostly killed Jews because they were Nazi sympathizers and when Russia fought back the Nazi military the Banderites fought in the side of the Nazis, but that’s not representative of all Ukraine (unless you think all of Ukraine are Nazis). The Banderites, or what was left of them anyway, were reformed into a clandestine militia by NATO through Operation Gladio to activate as a color revolution if the opportunity ever arose. That militia has a direct historical line through to the current neo-nazis operating in Ukraine after they couped the former government in 2014.

Russia has zero plans to take Ukraine. The CIA said so 2 years ago, the NYT reported it this year. There is no material possibility of it happening. Russia is not trying to take Ukraine.

Ukraine is fighting Russia because Russia invaded, and Russia invaded because Ukraine was working to hand over a portion of its sovereignty, specifically the military bases and nuclear sites, to NATO. Ukraine isn’t pissed off, they are scared shitless. Look at how many people are fleeing Ukraine out of fear, look at how hard it is to get recruits to the front line. Look at the average age of the Ukrainian military.

Russia obviously acknowledges Ukraine as a sovereign state because it has tried at least 3 times to negotiate with it. You don’t negotiate unless you believe in the sovereignty of the state you’re negotiating with. Your fantasy delusion about the world does match even the most basic of facts.

Also, I love that you think retaliatory strikes are recompense. Least bloodthirsty lib moment right here.

Russia and Ukraine have a long and bloody history.

Together. As comrades. They defeated the nazis.

Until Nuland attacked.

Yeah. Russia and Ukraine have a long and bloody history.

No, they don’t. Coming from an actual Ukrainian here who knows, well, real history.

Russia wants them to be, against their will

No, it doesn’t. If it did - there wouldn’t be a single reason for them to stop and try talking sense into the Ukrainian government - I am referring to the Istanbul talks. And guess who torpedoed that agreement - it was the West. Why? Because they didn’t have enough war yet.

Russia attacked and attacked, and got their assess handed to them.

Sure thing, bud. That’s why Ukraine has been kidnapping people off the streets for more than 18 months now. That’s why they are considering lowering mobilization age to 18 and forcing everyone above 15 to register for the future draft. That’s why they themselves admit constantly there is a serious manpower issue. That’s why ghouls like Lindsey Graham and Blinken regularly visit Kiev right before a new mobilization law is drafted. But idiot libs like you are satisfied with CNN and MSNBC narratives.

All Russia has to do to end the war is acknowledge Ukraine as a sovereign state

Russia still acknowledges Ukraine as a sovereign state. All UKRAINE had to do is acknowledge its neutrality as its OWN DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE states loud and clear - that being “no presence of an aggressive, imperialist and virulently russophobic Nazi Arming and Training Organization on Russia’s doorstep” and “no bombing of civvies in the Donbass area, no discrimination against Russians and Russian-speaking people in Ukraine”.

What we actually know now is:

• The part of Ukraine that wanted to be a part of Russia got bombed in a massive terrorist bombing campaign before the invasion started. Fuck those people, right?

• The seceded parts of Ukraine want to be a part of Russia; they’ve literally been fighting for it. Russia wanted only those parts until the war had reached a certain point. Now they want the removal of a literal Nazi state on it’s borders.

• Israel’s diplomats had encouraged Ukraine into belligerence during negotiations and diplomacy with Russia. A literal fascist state full of Nazis would also want me to force the issue of their removal.

• Ukraine has lost this many lives and have gotten to Kursk. Just take a minute and pull your hand off your dick and your brain out of your Marvel comic-books and actually go look at a map to see how big Russia is. Or keep jerking it to your fantasy.

• Nazis tend to get pissed easily.

• What about the parts that want to be a part of Russia? What about the literal Nazi terrorist state that is sponsoring even more terrorism in central Africa targeted at Mali? Oh boy, another Western rogue state getting massive cash-flow and weapons stocked away right next to Europe! I’m sure the sudden surge in arrests of far-right groups all over Europe in connection to arms smuggling has no connection!

Oh. Go fuck yourself. Go ahead and ignore 2014, seperatists and lick up the propaganda from your Western masters like the good dog you are. I could post sources or links; or just the HISTORICAL FACT that literal neo-Nazi groups have been fighting against Russian separatists in the eastern region of Ukraine. You’d scream and flail about Russian propaganda, or ask “What time in Moscow is it, Tankie” like you bloodthirsty, seething fascists always do.

China’s 500 warheads simply cannot kill more than 10% of the USA with its entire arsenal on a good day

Lmao what are you talking about

Say the U.S. could destroy 20% of Chinese nukes in a war (it can’t). The remaining 400 nukes could do more than enough damage to the U.S. to make thr cost of starting a nuclear war too high – that’s deterrence, that’s all you need. Hell, the DPRK’s situation (a few nukes that can strike U.S. bases or take out a carrier group) is probably sufficient.

Listen, your entire argument is fundamentally flawed from the get go. You are looking at nukes as if they only kill people. Your analysis does nothing to account for infrastructural damage. Primarily energy and communications. China wouldn’t even need 100 nukes to land to wipe out 80% of the US population. They could do it with a dozen or so.

The energy grid of the US is so dilapidated that the destruction of 9 key substations would wipe out power for almost the entire country. Estimates that it would be 18 months before power was restored. In that time is estimated 80% of the population would die. The country would be in absolute chaos. They couldn’t fight a war because the population would be tearing itself apart just trying to survive. Most people couldn’t even cook a meal without electricity. Houses, stoves, etc. are designed for it anymore. Water treatment, refrigeration, etc. without power then manufacturing goes out the window.

Even if they didn’t hit those exact substations, a couple hundred nukes would still do so much damage to the grid that it would take years to begin restoring electricity to the country in any reasonable level. When the country fall apart that bad the military itself will fall apart. Cut off supply to every ship and base outside of the US landmass and see how long they hold up. See if the USs vassal states stay loyal when the home country is literally ripping itself to pieces for their neighbors canned food.

You obsession with nuclear deterrents being solely about how many people die in the initial blasts has no basis on reality. People are not just little NPCs standing around waiting to be ordered to do a thing. They need infrastructure and resources to survive.

it’s a holocaust because it would literally be death by fire, it’s not that deep

why is it a “holocaust” when the Isntrealis bring upon that which they are trying to provoke, and inflicting on others?

please dont insert things that I havent said, I called it a nuclear holocaust because of things like the cuban missile crisis, one nuke is enough to set off a chain reaction that kills everyone.

Its all good and well saying ‘deterence!’ without factoring in how fucking stupid we all are.

Strongly agree with most of what you’re saying.

A country must have enough nukes to ensure decently proportional retaliation. If the USA can kill 1 million Chinese, China should be able to immediately do the same ad infinitum. Otherwise, the calculus breaks down in one side’s favor. Let’s assume a nuclear exchange between China and the USA based on Wikipedia’s stockpile numbers for each.

The calculus for China is even more complex. They need the ability not just to take x lives for x lives. They need the ability to suppress US and NATO capabilities globally. It’s not enough to suppress the US mainland when the US stations nukes and has military forces, bases, reserves, pawns all over western Europe, as well as smaller bases in the middle east in places like Jordan, as well as places in Asia itself like Japan, occupied Korea, etc, etc. Nukes could come from anywhere including a pawn which the US disavows.

China needs a nuclear capability that is enough they can wipe out the US in a tit for tat mainland attack but also have enough that if they start with attacking US assets outside the US, they’ll have enough after finishing that to still finish the US and the UK. I’d say 1500 bare minimum. Luckily they are on their way to 1000 though it will take time, time in which they’re under greater threat.

They must also consider interceptor tech or the math that not all warheads will reach their destination if this is in response to a first strike by the US who is now waiting fully prepared to mitigate as much as possible (to say nothing of the possibility of the US actually managing to take out a chunk of their warhead stock in the first strike). So you need to allocate at least 10-20% more warheads than you think you need, maybe as high as 30%. Having reserves never hurts. Of course this is alleviated somewhat by putting such warheads on hypersonic missiles/delivery systems but I don’t think the Chinese have entirely switched their nuclear arsenal over to those yet as they are still kind of a beta product and may not be considered ready for that duty. But even those there’s still the chance the US could launch counter-nukes into the atmosphere in the path of incoming weapons to destroy them and a hypersonic missile if caught close enough would be destroyed just the same as a regular one (though I admit given the plasma around them they probably have an advantage in being able to be closer to such a blast and continue than normal missiles).

And I’ve mentioned this before they need enough to hit all these places plus New Zealand. Why NZ? Because it’s where all the big western bourgeoisie have their bunkers and will likely flee and they need to know they’ll die because China will drop 3 nukes one on top of the other on them and bury them alive in their now tombs.

There’s too many fellow travellers here for them to see the point you’re trying to make, some people in the West resist the New Cold War not out of any moral or principled anti-imperialist reasons but principally a selfish self-preservational fear from a potential MAD scenario they have floating in their heads.

We’ve been through all this before. Back in the 1980s, you had some Western “leftists” too busy celebrating over the supposed European nuclear disarmament through the “Zero Option” scam that Reagan pitched to Gorbachev to see the capitulation to imperialist hegemony that Gorbachev represented. There was a rather disgusting, though largely unserious at first, struggle session over on Hexbear a while back where they debated whether China should “bother” launching its second strike if the US suddenly launches a first strike against it. “Yes, 1.4 billion people will be murdered, 1/5th of the human race exterminated, but since things are already too late, China should prevent the loss of ‘more lives’ and let bygones be bygones.” I’m sure they thought writing a few articles in Monthly Review afterwards condemning this nuclear holocaust would be a balanced recompense for this fantasy genocide scenario. You don’t need enemies with “comrades” like these.

All these nonsense stories about Ukrainian “dirty nukes” or NATO escalatory gimmicks, that tries to make it seem like the Western leadership is more like the fictional General Ripper rather than the chicken-hawk it really is, obfuscates the fact that Russian nuclear superiority, particularly its still-active Perimeter program will always ensure that there is always a bottom line the West will avoid stepping on. China has completely bypassed the nuclear unilateralism nonsense that gripped the USSR, having rejected so far all Western attempts to shackle it to “trilateral arms agreements” (where the West combines its stockpile with Russia’s against their own) when it still has not reached nuclear parity. The material conditions of a contemporary arms race are different from the first Cold War in that China’s industrial capacity can afford it to outcompete the West in a nuclear buildup when this had once been an active US strategy to drain the Soviet budget.

The difference in the treatment of Libya and the DPRK, the first having drawn back from its nuclear program and the latter having heroically ensured its sovereignty through a mere modest nuclear capacity is plain to see for anyone in the Global South.

Mali can testify about the global threat part. Apparently the Ukronazis have enough extra resources to help terrorists attack Mali’s army.

I guess there might have been some confusion from what I said to here.

I never said the Ukrainian puppet regime would never do something like irradiating Russia and Europe by blowing up a nuclear power plant, I just said that if they were going to bomb a nuclear power plant, releasing a lot of nuclear materials, there was no reason for them to go out of their way to get more nuclear materials to throw at it as just blowing it up conventionally would already be spreading a lot of radiation and adding more would likely not even make a difference.

So, either they would be attacking the nuclear power plant with conventional weapons or they would get nuclear materials to attack a city with a dirty bomb, but there is no need to attack a nuclear power plant with a dirty bomb as it is redundant and counter productive, so it might be that the news is either really bad propaganda or mistranslated/misreported.