We need more socialist minded people in trade jobs. Of the few unions left, that’s where most of them are. And I can tell you, most of the people in those jobs fall for the right wing “hard working American” grift, and hate unions despite benefitting massively from them. So more socialist minded people might help turn the tide and save those unions.

Most trade jobs are what’s going to the last to go when things start really falling apart. I have a buddy that’s in an electrician apprenticeship through a city sewer district. No matter what happens, people are going to need electricians and sewage system. People are going to need carpenters, welders, etc.

If you are a comrade and are afraid you can’t afford college, look for trade jobs. If I was 10-20 years younger and knew then what I know now I’d have thrown away my aspirations for a degree and picked up some wire cutters and suffered the 5 years of an apprenticeship. My buddies making more as an apprentice than I did for the first 5 years after college with a science degree.

So your options are, college and debt or an apprenticeship for 5 years that will (MAYBE) have you working ass hours and hating life, except the apprenticeship you will be net positive on income. ALSO, I went to college, and STILL had to get out and work ass hours at whatever job I could find. Leading me to almost become suicidal at one point due to the stress. I eventually found better work but it’s not even related to my field and when I eventually get fired for being a remote worker, I won’t have shit for local experience.

So yeah, seriously consider trade jobs my comrades.

I have no idea tbh. I went only to trade school, and I’m doing okay. I enjoy my blue collar job working my hands sort of. Pursuing higher education distances oneself from the working class, so ymmv.

I would say, a good starting point is acknowledging that the system is stacked against people in the US. Unless you have rich parents to pay for your college, you’re going to be at a disadvantage and even then, you’d end up competing against other kids of rich parents who are vying to get their kids into the same colleges and the same positions.

That said, the baseline everyone probably shares in some way is “to not end up in destitution.” And in that regard, I don’t think jumping into large loans is a good idea. It’s a predatory system and it preys on people who have basically just become adults and can’t possibly intuit well the implications of loans that they could spend decades having to pay off. Add to that how much has become “gig economy” stuff now, making degrees less important and more of a loan burden, overall.

So my recommendation is, unless you’re confident you can (not just want to) pursue a degree in one of the big ones like medicine, finance, or maybe computer science (though even that seems more glutted as a field with all the code bootcamp stuff now), I would not recommend taking out large loans to go to a standard university. Instead, consider cheaper community college stuff while working part-time, trade skills, specializations that require less cost and time investment, but still have a clear path to some kind of work. Will you be missing out on something, if you don’t live in a dorm and go to a four year college? Yeah, but you can also miss that while taking out significant loans, such as if you commute to a college instead of living on/near campus.

Higher education should just be paid for by the state, none of this crap in the way, but while it’s not, if you’re considering your future, don’t be taken for a ride because of a picture of an experience, or a piece of paper, that’s made out to be critical. Instead, make connections in your area, find hobby groups, etc., that’s a good chunk of the socializing from going to a university anyway. You don’t have to be a shut-in if you don’t do the “typical” university “experience” and you could go to a university and be a shut-in anyway. And you don’t have to give up on all specializations and certifications by not doing the “typical” path.

I’m not trying to say there’s one right answer, mind you, but the US is a mess and I think people should take that into account when considering a path. It’s probably going to be bumpier than colleges trying to sell you on enrollment make it out to be.

It’s tricky because higher education is pretty much required to get a job that isn’t mediocre or soul destroying, BUT it’s also not a guarantee either. I had co-workers with degrees working the same retail job and making the same money as me with no college degree, with them still having thousands of student loan debt in their 30s. They were basically forcibly trapped at that job having to deal with the shitty boss due to having to pay their loans while I was able to quit and look for something else at my leisure. So all in all no, I do NOT recommend going to college blindly for it’s own sake, go only if you have a very clear idea of the specific job you actually want, that you actually want the job you think you want, and that you will actually be able to get that job.

I think if u can swing it u should go for it. I mean the median income for someone with a 4 year degree is 25k higher than highschool so if u go 40k or 50k into debt it pays for itself pretty quick. Also as my grandfather always says “the shovel is heavier than the pen”.

Also i find it interesting that good scholarships are hard to find in ur area, in florida we have brightfutures which if u meet the requirements u get it, no matter how many people apply and it pretty easy to meet the retirements specially for the 70% one but even the one that pays 100% its not that crazy, do other states not have stuff like that? people always talk shit about florida but i have found it to be a pretty good place to live… but to be fair to the florida haters brightfutures is actually insidious as fuck because its funded by the profit from the powerball lottery aka the poverty tax and most scholarships go to labor aristocracy/middle class kids.

Go into the workforce for a few years, and once you can get the full benefits from low-income assistance without it counting parental income go to college and take all the assistance you can in doing so. I think its at like 26? that parental income stops counting. Or marry someone that does it immediately. Or alternatively if you want take out tons of loans get a fancy degree then leave the country and never pay them back lol.

You should pursue university if you have any aspirations at all of working within science, tech, etc. The undergraduate degree is basically just “high school 2.0” at this point (in the US). Almost meaningless as far as education goes, but required to move on to master’s and PhD programs.

No matter how shitty things get (and they will absolutely continue to get shittier for as long as Americans remain as reactionary as “we” are) education should always be emphasized above all else for young people. For everyone really, but especially the young.

All leftist movements of note have had academics, thinkers, educated people in their core who went on to be leaders. This education doesn’t have to formal, although speaking anecdotally, I find it far easier to learn “tough” subjects (science, maths) within the confines of a university-type system. Other things can be learned on my own by reading and interacting with others who have read the same material.

The people for which it becomes a “question” in my mind would be those unsure of their vocational desires. If everything was free, I would 100% say “send everyone to get undergrad degrees!” However, reality being what it is, I think there should be hesitancy considering the lifelong consequences of massive debt. Unfortunately these are both individual decisions and, in my opinion, decisions impossible for a 16-18 year old to make. Yet our society forces them to make them regardless and holds them personally responsible… for the rest of their lives.

Even with the massive debt issue looming, I always lean towards “Fuck it! Education is always good!” Even just a generic liberal arts education or pursuing something like philosophy. You do gain a lot of experience and perspective you’d otherwise be denied just by being in a university with other students from all over. Even if you try to remain a recluse or focus on only studies, you will be forced almost by accident to learn something new about other people (which is of course a big reason conservatives have always hated universities. Not for “being liberal or leftist.” They hate people connecting on a human level and learning that we’re all the same.)

There is always the option of learning a trade skill. HVAC, plumbing, electrical, etc. Not glamorous jobs, but absolutely necessary for the existence of society as we know it, and often well-paid once you get some experience. Impossible to automate or just “delete” away as well. They’re also traditionally unionized more heavily (well, not HVAC). Who knows, maybe you could help unionize a non-unionized company.

I can say as someone who has chosen both paths (well “chosen” isn’t the word… “lack of making a choice” leading to “well, guess this is what I’ll do then…”) that I wish I had known what I wanted in HS and had pursued university right away. But that also just isn’t who I was or am. While it’s easy to think “that’s the most efficient path to “success”” (meaning highest compensation) it also wasn’t realistic for me. I’ve always loved learning new stuff, anything from hands-on to book learning. I enjoyed learning how compressors work, and I enjoyed repairing/replacing them (among many other things, of course). I enjoyed learning electrical theory and then working on troubleshooting and repairing circuits all the way from small devices up to industrial sized cooling systems. I loved calculus, biology, chemistry (I majored in biology for my undergrad… much later in life than most students). I love learning but get incredibly bored once it goes from learning to working (terrible combo for most jobs).

I don’t know what to tell young people who are like I was. People with the capacity to go on and learn anything pretty much but ultimately lacking any real motivation or “reason” to do… anything at all. I want to say “it’ll work out.” “Just do whatever makes you happy at the time.” I don’t know if that’s true though… it did “work out” for me. Yet I know a solid dozen people not too much unlike myself for whom it did not work out. I think that’s why I lean towards “just go to university if you can.” It’s the least risky of the gambles. Unless you know for a fact that you want to work in something like plumbing, which of course I encourage all young people to learn all the trade skills that you can, just get a taste of it and see what you think. But if you don’t want to do that, and you want the best chance at a decent paying job later down the line, university, getting a degree, getting more degrees on your degrees, is the path as things stand currently.

I think we should radically change the way we view education and labour as a whole. Right now we see higher education as a status symbol while ‘lower’ education is not. People with a lower education tend to do more practical and physical jobs. Construction, cleaning, factory work just to name a few things. They often have lower pay, less workers’ rights and are often more physically damaged by their jobs. And we accept this all because they are seen as lesser due to their education.

Education should serve as an enrichment to life where people can develop sets of skills free of status. My father never went to college or university. He barely finished high school. He is a very practical man though and the people in the neighborhood we grew up in, often rich and educated, all came to him because he was the only person who could fix bicycles. The same people look down on him solely because he doesn’t have a degree.

Education should be provided to everyone, for free, in any forms whether it be practical or more theoretical. And we should stop viewing different degrees as lesser of as more valuable. We need carpenters. We need lawyers. We need doctors. We need cleaning personnel. Even in a socialist society. But we should not see the cleaning lady at an office building as less valuable as a doctor in a hospital.

If, for example, a janitor decided he wants to do something else in life and become a psychologist, just to name something, I believe he should be able to and should be encouraged to do so.

In our current situation, to get back to your question, I’m not sure if we should actively encourage socialist to study in higher education. If they want to, sure. But actively encouraging, imo, leads to a divide in the working class where the more blue collar job people might see us as elitist. After all, why SHOULD you persue higher education just for the sake of it? Isn’t being a worker in a factory not good enough? The message you send is really important here.

I think it’s important to get a higher education if you can. I know the more prestigious universites are absurdly unaffordable in the US but what about community colleges? How are the prices like there? The main draw for the high tier universities from what i can see seems to be networking. If you don’t plan on making connections with the elite then i think you might just as well go to a cheaper college.

Another option, and this is the one i would recommend, would be going to study abroad. Don’t pick countries like the UK, Canada or Australia where university is also very expensive, pick a country where college is either free (like some European countries) or very cheap. I know this is not going to be an option for everyone because there are also costs of living that need to be taken into consideration if you move to another country, but overall i think you will probably still come out cheaper. If you are prepared to put in the effort up front to do some research on the kinds of applications/paperwork you need to fill out, and to familiarize yourself with another language, then i think it’s a very viable option.

And besides, studying in another country gives you invaluable life experience and lets you see how other people live and immerse yourself in other cultures. This may even more more important than just the education aspect. It really opens your mind and broadens your horizons. This is especially important for leftists and socialists. Even just doing a single year abroad can be extremely enlightening.