Hi, I’m here to announce that everyone pushing the standard Hexbear party line on the protest movement is a loser and wrong. I already know the weak-ass arguments you’re gonna make and every single one of them reveals your disconnection from any actual organizing. Let’s go through them one by one. If you have another that you think Marx Failed to Consider, please bring it up and I will explain how you are wrong in that way as well.

This was funded by the Waltons

No, one Walton bought an ad in the NYT. Who fucking cares? It has no material bearing on the movement whatsoever. There’s no organization money is being funneled to other than the Democratic Party and Indivisble, which is not different in any way. The on-the-ground organizers in most cities and towns are not receiving a penny from the left’s George Soros conspiracy. They’re just normal people (and, to the next point, lots of leftists).

The Democrats are using this to steal the leftist energy of the masses

The Democrats certainly want to do that, but on the ground reports indicate they are losing all over the country. That’s because leftists (especially PSL) are not leaving this space uncontested. I have spent an enormous amount of time putting in the work to earn the trust and legitimacy necessary to place a bunch of literal revolutionary communists in the leadership of the local movement. Not in some sneaky, behind the scenes way, but out in the open, succeeding specifically because we are literal revolutionary communists who never shut up about it. The Democrats, by my accounting, are losing the struggle in more places than not. If you refuse to engage because you’re afraid the Dems will suck your leftist soul, you’re just conceding the struggle and granting them victory. They don’t co-opt by pressing a button, they co-opt because they have the resources to take leadership and then defuse. So far they have failed to do so specifically because the space is not empty and the communists are fighting harder to reach the masses (since we actually have an appealing program).

The attendees are all Kamala-loving liberals who just want to go back to brunch

If you had ever bothered to go to one of these events and talk politics to people, you’ll discover a very broad array of political perspectives, including a strong trend towards explicit support for socialism. Yes, of course, the PMC bug-eating libs are there - who cares? They are by no means the only attendees. Maybe you’re just Too Cool to be around someone who reminds you of your mom, but the rest of us are finding deep political discontent and activating it. When one of my comrades gets on the mic and says “we need to break from the democrats and do a literal socialist revolution”, the crowd response, by and large, is incredibly positive. The retired dentists and accountants in the crowd grumble and whine, but they are a minority - and they don’t leave. They stay and listen to the arguments we make. They say things like “you’re right, I just don’t think it’s possible”. They very, very rarely say “you’re going too far”.

This is a disorganized mess that’s going to fizzle out

50501 and other decentralized spontaneous protest movements never last, but they do give an opportunity for dedicated political organizers to intervene on a stage where thousands of disaffected liberals and Democrat voters are asking “what is to be done?”. If you decide not to show up and answer that question, the Democrat machine will coordinate the demobilization of this movement. If you do show up and you deliver the political argument you believe in. If you show up with the AV equipment, safety marshalls, march route, signs, and speaker list - the bare minimum for a halfway serious organizer - then you don’t just hand out flyers and talk at a table but set the entire political line of the event. And in doing so, you demonstrate the leadership of the socialist movement and win a lot of those attendees to your side. If you can plug them into actual organizing work, you can bring them into permanent political motion. Does it matter if 95% of these people just go home and never bother to do anything besides another protest? If those 5% join the movement in a meaningful way, that’s half a million new comrades.

Mao says: “All work done for the masses must start from their needs and not from the desire of any individual, however well-intentioned. It often happens that objectively the masses need a certain change, but subjectively they are not yet conscious of the need, not yet willing or determined to make the change. In such cases, we should wait patiently. We should not make the change until, through our work, most of the masses have become conscious of the need and are willing and determined to carry it out. Otherwise we shall isolate ourselves from the masses. Unless they are conscious and willing, any kind of work that requires their participation will turn out to be a mere formality and will fail.”

Stop thinking about what you want to do and achieve and start thinking about the fact that we needs tens of millions of people to support revolutionary socialism in the US in order to get anything done. They are out in the streets begging for you to explain this to them.

These are just peaceful protests that won’t achieve anything because they aren’t revolutionary.

Lenin says: “What grounds are there for assuming that the “great, victorious, world” revolution can and must employ only revolutionary methods? There are none at all. The assumption is a pure fallacy; this can be proved by purely theoretical propositions if we stick to Marxism. The experience of our revolution also shows that it is a fallacy. From the theoretical point of view—foolish things are done in time of revolution just as at any other time, said Engels, and he was right. We must try to do as few foolish things as possible, and rectify those that are done as quickly as possible, and we must, as soberly as we can, estimate which problems can be solved by revolutionary methods at any given time and which cannot.”

You’re doing the ultra-leftism of conflating tactics with strategy. Our tactic in this moment is to intervene in these protests to convince people of the necessity of a revolutionary socialist political organization as the only solution to our sick society. Right now, mass revolutionary socialist consciousness and organization does not exist in the USA. Therefore, it is impossible to carry out open revolutionary militancy. If the current crop of people who are in some way directly involved in revolutionary socialist organizing (certainly a lower bar than revolutionary guerrilla warfare or sabotage) turned today to armed struggle, all ~100,000 of them would lose. The broader periphery of people who semi-passively support that objective through attendance at events and monetary contribution is probably a few million. The masses who would passively support probably number in the tens of millions, but that passive support is not particularly useful. And the number of people who would simply sit by and watch it happen is probably over 100 million. Every one of those groups needs to be elevated to the next stage - observer to passive supporter, passive supporter to semi-passive periphery, semi-passive periphery to revolutionary organizer, revolutionary organizer to doing the literal revolution. Each of these layers of the movement have a symbiotic relationship with the others that strengthen the entire struggle.

Here’s the key lesson: WE DON’T HAVE ENOUGH PEOPLE TO WIN VIOLENT STRUGGLE AND YOU NEED TO GO WHERE THE MASSES ARE TO RALLY THEM TO OUR CAUSE.

Amerikkkans will never do a revolution because they are labor aristokkkrauts

Ok, thank you for you contribution, you can resume sitting in a hole since your prescription is inactivity.

Please tell me your other weak-ass reasons why you’re correct to sit on your ass.

  • LaBellaLotta [any]@hexbear.net
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    10 days ago

    I agree 100% with this and especially because I know my only excuse for not engaging more in these protests in my regions is my own cowardice.

    Really cool to hear that the Dems are as weak as they seem at the local electoral level.

    o7 comrade

    • grandepequeno [he/him]@hexbear.net
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      10 days ago

      I know my only excuse for not engaging more in these protests in my regions is my own cowardice.

      It’s important to admit this, I suspect this is how most online leftist feel regardless of what fake excuses they give for not doing literally anything (and there are many many excuses)

      And it’s not even like one has to be consistently brave, there were times when I was proactive and took myself and other people into political activity and times when I…tuned out and ignored phone calls

  • Erika3sis [she/her, xe/xem]@hexbear.net
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    10 days ago

    Please tell me your other weak-ass reasons why you’re correct to sit on your ass.

    If I hadn’t been sick that day, and had felt more comfortable with the idea of traveling that far for a protest, I would’ve liked to attend the local “No Dictators”[1] protest in Oslo — if for no other reason than to make my own first-hand assessment of current protests by local overseas Americans, and talk to the people there.

    Alas, I must confess that despite only having second-hand information, that I too have sinned by pushing the “party line” on this issue, albeit still with the kernel of the right idea.


    1. Democrats Abroad renamed the local No Kings protest because Norway is a kingdom. ↩︎

                • purpleworm [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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                  9 days ago

                  Even facing execution and met with reactionaries, John Brown used it as an opportunity to advocate for his beliefs, as he did in most cases. He knew well that a huge portion of the population would defend slavery with violence, and therefore that it must be opposed ultimately with violence, but he did not look at the overwhelming consensus in favor of slavery and say that it was no use talking to people, or do you think his comrades appeared out of thin air? Do you think every single one came from an existing abolitionist network, which itself must have come into existence ex-nihilo or get founded by a bunch of people who were born based? Was his project of rescuing slaves not itself also meant as a message to the wider country that slavery was intolerable and it could be opposed? One that helped to instigate a great shift in the popularity of abolition as well as galvanize existing supporters?

                  Yes, giving a little speech at a rally populated by liberals is not the same as being hanged for militant opposition to slavery, but we must acknowledge that people can be reached who once we might have considered our opposition, or else we have hallucinated the entire history of socialism and our cause is already lost regardless.

          • RedWizard [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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            10 days ago

            Instagram blocks users who are on a VPN, the same way Reddit and Facebook work as well. VPN addresses are publicly known, and they use that information to force you to log into their site.

  • MF_COOM [he/him]@hexbear.net
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    10 days ago

    Hell yeah comrade. Not a USian and I don’t really have an opinion on the issue but a true comrade is one who cares enough to challenge the consensus and force it to at least be defended, even if it means opening yourself up to be pilloried.

    sankara-salute Braver than the troops

  • Omega@lemmy.ml
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    Good post, I was wondering how you were gonna go about making another post dedicated to this topic when you last said it

  • Wakmrow [he/him]@hexbear.net
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    10 days ago

    No kings is not a revolution, it’s a lib protest.

    Frankly, talking about a revolution on the internet is a bad idea and you should stop.

    • jack [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.netOP
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      10 days ago

      No kings is not a revolution, it’s a lib protest.

      No, it’s part of a wave of protest whose final political character is yet to be determined. It could be something that feeds into and strengthens an eventual revolution or it could be a vehicle for Chuck Schumer. I, for one, will do everything I can to ensure it’s the former.

      Frankly, talking about a revolution on the internet is a bad idea and you should stop.

      I talk about revolution in real life with my actual face and name to literally thousands of people so I’m not really concerned about my posts.

    • grandepequeno [he/him]@hexbear.net
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      10 days ago

      Doesn’t have to be a revolution to be worth engaging in, the George Floyd Rebellion wasn’t a revolution, and it was FILLED TO THE BRIM WITH LIBS, but that didn’t stop online leftists from suggesting one should perhaps do something for once

      • Chana [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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        10 days ago

        The “doing something” on that level is really just personal development and emotional content. Some people are in need of that. But it isn’t really “doing something”. Doing something requires organization, being of an organization and executing on plans requiring multiple people.

        What people here should be doing us joining an org. Feel free to go to the lib protest, but it’s nothing to ridicule others over. Given the typical outcomes, it may even be mostly downside for individuals. For example, the people acquiring disabilities when cops shoot or gas them. When our comrades take risks, we owe them a level of organization to limit harm and maximize impact. When the outcomes are negligible and there was little organization, agitation to “just get out there” begins to read as misanthropy towards our comrades.

        The thing to do is to join or make an organization.

        • grandepequeno [he/him]@hexbear.net
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          10 days ago

          I completly agree, I never go to protests alone, I mean “doing something” as in joining any org worth it’s salt which will probably tell you to go to a protest in a group and talk to people instead of JUST complaining online, which is what people who would disagree with OP are doing most likely

          • Chana [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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            Yes, joining an org is key! That’s the first step on any comrade’s journey to actually doing something!

            Re: going with a group, unfortunately this means most orgs aren’t worth their salt. Opsec and security are often quite poor, including information for those who are attending atomically, like reading about the event on Instagram. They should bring PPE as well. Some organizations (with substantial memberships!) are notoriously incompetent at security and lose the trust of other organizations. I think this can mostly be chalked up to naivety and then egos when there are inevitable “callouts”, so I’m optimistic that this can be improved. But it does raise capacity questions, as many new organizers overly focus on the aesthetics of organizing, what they have seen others do publicly, and they neglect the less visible aspects that must be done in order to build trust and relationships.

            I don’t recommend that folks just go to protests and talk to people as self-development praxis. At least not unless you are prepared for the full breadth of interactions you are likely to encounter. These kinds of conversations are facilitated by being, “on”, like being charming and avoiding conflict or at least aggressive disagreement. And picking your battles. But even then without an org or goal one can only help for self-development from this activity. And even that is better facilitated by trainings in an org and roleplay. There are people in our communities that provide free labor for our own development as organizers, people with years of experience in deescalation and directed cogent conversations and developing scripts. Use them! You can find them through orgs.

  • Skye [she/her, they/them]@hexbear.net
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    10 days ago

    I’m not American so I have no idea what things are like on the ground.

    I’ve just seen the online presence of 50501 and it has been nothing but dire. Like, “show how much you love America by only wearing red white and blue!” and “lol the army at Trump’s birthday parade is epically owning him by not knowing how to march properly as a secret part of our protest, glory to the troops” type of shit.

    If things are actually better on the grass touching side of things that’s cool.

  • Rakisa [he/him]@hexbear.net
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    10 days ago

    Great post comrade. Your posts about the PSL is part of what motivated me to start interacting with my local one, and I know some of them went to the local protests.

    WE DON’T HAVE ENOUGH PEOPLE TO WIN VIOLENT STRUGGLE AND YOU NEED TO GO WHERE THE MASSES ARE TO RALLY THEM TO OUR CAUSE.

    This is something I think about a lot, esp in counter to the people (often libs) who just think Americans are idiots and can’t be reached. I sympathize with their frustrations but this is what we got and what we have to work with. Can’t just throw up our hands and give up.

  • red_stapler [he/him]@hexbear.net
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    10 days ago

    I personally am trying to thread the needle between my opinions of “This is another protest that isn’t going anywhere.” and “We need to be out there agitating and organizing in moments like these when people are paying attention.” sankara-salute

    • CutieBootieTootie [she/her]@hexbear.net
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      10 days ago

      This is a protest movement that likely won’t last, but these are excellent ways to connect with agitated people who are looking for a solution. If you want to organize a revolution, you don’t organize “the left” by only participating in the most pure and sacrosanct whatevers; YOU NEED TO ORGANIZE THE WORKING CLASS.

      These marches are absolutely filled with working class people asking “what is to be done” and even if 90% of them won’t join or be fit for a movement, that still leaves giant numbers who are suddenly now reachable, in person!!!

      • RedWizard [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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        10 days ago

        Yeah, my post history might not show it, but offline this is my position as well. I mean, you have to be where the people are, right? The Sanders rallies, I think, are the real revolutionary lightning rods. There are too many people attending these protests for them to be highly effective lightning rods. Too large to totally dominate the message at the local level.

        • ProletarianDictator [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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          9 days ago

          but offline this is my position as well.

          I suspect this is exactly why the disconnect here is occurring.

          People, who ultimately know they must organize amongst the masses, bemoaning the obnoxious liberal chauvinism on display at these rallies…on the sole internet forum where you can openly shit on liberals without the fash jumping in and ruining the fun.

          Meanwhile, every super serious™ Lenin enjoyer or mass line enthusiast here reads the complaint as if they are saying “we can’t organize here” and throwing in the towel because garden variety American liberals are uniquely unreachable.

          It’s a similar frustration to the one that plays out when one person in a relationship is trying to vent while the other party only offers suggestions toward a solution. Yeah, your solution might be correct, but I just wanted to commiserate and feel validation that my feelings aren’t in isolation.

          The one problem I have with Hexbear site culture is how often someone will read a post that is either lamenting the state of affairs, expressing frustration with the actions (or lack thereof) of the anti-imperialist bloc, or wishing for an unlikely outcome is met with hostility as if it were indicative of actual organizational strategy of utmost importance and not just a mere expression of anxiety, cope, or zealous optimism.

          For most of us, this is the one place people have to seek validation or shared sentiment on current events without being dogpiled by annoying libs, and it makes me sad to see so many people called a doomer or “nothing ever happens guys” or idealist or an ultra for sincerely utilizing that outlet to vent their feelings. Especially when people create meta drama threads taking the least charitable interpretation of their takes.

          • ComradeSharkfucker@lemmy.ml
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            9 days ago

            You have expressed my thoughts better than I could lol. This is where I come to vent frustrations with comrades who understand them not where I come to express genuine organizational strategy. I need to get it out here or I might actually blow up at someone in person.

          • RedWizard [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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            9 days ago

            Shit dog you fucking nailed it. That’s exactly why I’m here. I keep a cool and level head most days and this place allows me to get that pent up energy out. My SO can be that sounding board too, but you can’t keep that up forever, its exhausting.

            This connected space can also do the opposite too. Look at my post history. You can see what I’m talking about. Try to discuss lib shit and get called a Nazi in return. That’s a new one for me. I’ll chock it up to high tensions but still.

    • Le_Wokisme [they/them, undecided]@hexbear.net
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      10 days ago

      libbed up things like this are recruiting opportunities for actual orgs and radicalizing events for baby protestors who do all the cargo cult shit and get abused by pigs regardless.

      they made no demands, they advocated no policy, they took a walk with 400-20,000 of their friends through downtown instead of to an ICE facility

    • Chana [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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      10 days ago

      The idea that a couple days of protest are the time to organize and agitate is itself somewhat liberal. Of course exploit moments of “political” activity if it is strategic, but organizing is constant work, not something that comes and goes based on whether some liberals are wearing pink hats or a sassy sign at a pro-cop march. By the time anyone is arguing about whether to use this kind of event, it will usually already be over! If there was a train, you missed it! What was needed was healthy organizations experienced and ready to go, making deliberate choices internally and executing on them. This thread, to me, reads like armchair generals yelling at each other about what “should happen”, detached from the realities of organizing! The question of what to do about a lib cop-escorted event is really one to ask internally at an org, immediately raising capacity questions.

      For folks reading this post: the best thing you can personally do is join and contribute to an org, the libbed up protest doesn’t really mean anything on a personal practical level.

      • ProletarianDictator [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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        9 days ago

        Right? As if the only mechanism for organizing is solely using a megaphone to expose normies to communist agitation. Show up for a day, convince some people of some things, and soon enough it will snowball into everyone holding their own megaphone for Lenining.

        Chances are, if you have any specialized skill whatsoever, you will have far greater impact using that skill semi-regularly to contribute to your org and the masses. Everyone wants a mass radicalization event where simply hearing arguments for an hour will net you twenty dedicated, cadre-ready revolutionaries. There is no shortcut or cheat code. Organizing takes work. Day after day.

  • Evilphd666 [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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    10 days ago

    I give up on them. I’ve had enough can kicking. I’ve had enough “the struggle continues” Our Princess is in another Castle bullshit. It’s old. It’s tiring. Every fucking time. The “have faith”. It’s no longer worth it to me. I don’t have the sanity or patience anymore for it, nor the finances. I lost faith this place wil ever get better. If you still got fire and faith then well good on you.

          • Evilphd666 [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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            9 days ago

            Yes my thousands of mutual aid to Palestine individuals and causes and my own family causes is not doing anything. My workplace organizing and deprograming is not going anything. Very cowardly too. My 25 years of activism only to see the nation go right back to the GW Bush mission-accomplished era - yeah that makes me throw my hands up too.

            Going to March of the Month part 6 of the year of Her lord 2025 to be surrounded by freaking vote idiots as an extreme introvert is going to magically poof a regular meeting of hard core socialists 40 miles away in a +18R district. Hell yeah that will spark the revolution…and they’re canvasing for Democrats again. picard

            • OnceUponATimeInWeHo [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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              Just a barrage of excuses for giving up on any hope at revolution 1. I’ve paid money 2. I used to care 3. The marchers are cringe 4. I’m an introvert.

              Just admit you’ve lost faith in the proletariat and believe that nothing can change, without all the excuses

        • tocopherol [any]@hexbear.net
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          These rallies were happening regardless, you can take that opportunity to connect people that have a sentiment against the status quo and help lead them into a socialist cause rather then let them be corralled by the corporate dems that co-opt every movement. I didn’t take this post as advocating anything like entryism or support for the US structure.

    • Chana [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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      10 days ago

      Hey there, that’s not fair. You can take an active part in the death of America! Revolutionary organizing is not just unjustified optimism in the revolutionary potential of Burgerland. You can also organize locally to [redacted].

  • grandepequeno [he/him]@hexbear.net
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    10 days ago

    Great post, Jack dean-smile

    Let’s face it most people doing this don’t even realize they’re being ultras when doing this, it’s a very common way of being an online leftist