Summary
Most European countries moved clocks forward one hour on Sunday, marking the start of daylight saving time (DST), a practice increasingly criticized.
Originally introduced during World War I to conserve energy, DST returned during the 1970s oil crisis and now shifts Central European Time to Central European Summer Time.
Despite a 2018 EU consultation where 84% of nearly 4 million respondents supported abolishing DST, implementation stalled due to member state disagreement.
Poland, currently holding the EU presidency, plans informal consultations to revisit the issue amid broader geopolitical priorities.
They need to seriously quit this bullshit. It serves no practical purpose in our modern society, while also having tangible negative effects. So why keep doing it?
I enthusiastically support getting rid of this nonsense.
it never actually served a practical purpose. It was argued about then, too.
More daylight in summer rocks. It would be equally rocking in Winter. The clocks shoud stay forward.
But wouldn’t it be neat if midnight was att 00:00 and mid day was 12:00?
Also, you don’t get more daylight by moving the clock. You get more clock.
Time of day is a human invention. We can assign the date lines wherever we like.
Like Japan was nuts. Dark at 3pm in winter. Light at 3am in summer. They’d benefit by shifting that shit two hours forward for sure.
I disagree. The angle of the sun is not a human invention. Trying to invent something from scratch based on that, I would definitely mark one time as “the darkest” and another “the lightest”.
I agree that hours, and therefore date lines and time zones are completely arbitrary though.
If we didn’t have hours we’d still need a way to group times by geographic or political regions; my example above still needs to handle the “lightest where?” question.
I think my conclusion is that organizing people and societies is arbitrary by nature.
It would be neater though to try to make midnight and mid day the basis for which we measure time. Stepping off of that makes it even more arbitrary.
We’re not disagreeing then. I’m just saying some date lines aren’t in the right place in general, but what really matters most? What are our priorities? I don’t think most light and most dark is better, even if it were possible to get every time zone just right.
I feel like having a life, and kids being able to play for longer after school without it being dark throughout the summer is pretty awesome.
It’s that or have school and work finish earlier. I’m all for that, lol.
The simple fact is that on the Monday after DST starts, more people have heart attacks and strokes.
Meaning that not going away from it means people will continue to die from it.
I wasn’t sure if you were joking, but nope: https://newsroom.heart.org/news/heres-your-wake-up-call-daylight-saving-time-may-impact-your-heart-health
I will never understand why people want the time we only use for 3 months to be the time we use for the whole year. I would rather people just be able to admit that December is dark (for the northern hemisphere) and we can do shit at a different time.
I literally couldn’t care less which time we pick, I just want the madness to STOP
Totally this discussion has been going on for ages let’s just say its dumb in this fay and age and stop it.
wdym 3 months? both CET and CEST are used approximately half a year
In North America DST is used from second Sunday of March until first Sunday of November.
This means there are 239 days in DST, and 126 days out of DST in 2025. Close to 2 to 1 ratio.
I know it’s different with CEST and CET, and it sucks even more donkeyballs there, when the sun sets around 4PM (instead of 5) regardless.
DST should really be the standard in most places. You want more sunlight in the afternoon, not in the morning.
I prefer more sunlight in the morning. It’s better for your circadian rhythm and it is easier to wake up when it’s bright outside.
I’d definitely prefer more sunlight in the morning. It’s 6:45am right now and the sun hasn’t even risen yet and won’t start for another half hour.
Meanwhile, more sunlight later in the day is often gone to waste anyway, between work/commute/dinner/etc. It’s especially wasteful later in the summer… You already have sunlight super late in the day anyway.
But honestly, I would take either as long as it stops changing.
Of course the US does DST several weeks later than the rest of the world
I think you have that backwards. The US changed their clocks to DST several weeks ago (March 9).
Yep, the “standard” time should definitely be what we currently call daylight saving.
I completely agree. Plus, it gives everyone an hour of light that would otherwise be wasted working.
It’s the standard. It’s what clocks are “supposed” to be set at. DST forces everyone to pretend it’s another time. Let people take advantage of summer daylight how they see fit rather than forcing them to.
It’s what clocks are “supposed” to be set at
Even better for us Dutchies: CEST shifts us one hour, but our timezone is the same as the rest of the mainland, but technically we’re inside the UTC zone, so we’re actually shifted 2 hours from where we’re supposed to be!
Fuck the economy, I want our times fixed, so we can sleep better!
Time is a human construct there is no “supposed”.
Yeah, but we spend just over 4 months on “standard” time, and almost 8 months on “summer” time. Why do we only use “standard” time for roughly 1/3 of the year?
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I live in a non-DST area and it is very nice
The only time I’m reminded that DST is a thing in most of the world, is when people are complaining about it online after it already switched over.
I would have never known if it wasn’t because a coworker told me or because of articles like these. My cat wakes me up at 7- 7:30 and he did that this morning too, so I was very surprised that I slept only 7 hours instead of 8 (before I knew). But the funnits part is that my cat followed DST haha
Your cat must be in on the conspiracy. Perhaps even part of the deep state.
I have a taxi company. On one night, one of my drivers did two jobs, one dispatched at 00:15, the other at 00:45, and he clocked off at 02:15. How long was he working for?
A) 1 hour
B) 2 hours
C) 3 hours
D) 2 hours 30 minutes
E) any of the above
American here, trick question, it’s E. Irrelevant, the driver is only paid through tips and the employer doesn’t pay payroll taxes, so his working hours are of no consequence.
E is “any of the above”
Right, he worked 1 hours, then 2, then 3, then 2.5, then (1, then 2, … (…)) without any breaks!
When I worked an hourly job on the night shift, we would all clock out to change the time and then clock back in.
A, B or C.
D would mean that you are in a country with a half hour DST offset, in which case we would miss the option 1 hour and 30 minutes.
D can also happen if the 00:45 job was before the 00:15 job, which thanks to the magic of daylight savings, is also possible
Wow, I didn’t even think of that option. Savage.
Edit: I’m gonna steal this to annoy my coworkers.
The thing I don’t get is why it happens in the summer rather than the winter.
In the UK it gets dark at about 4pm in winter. We basically get no leisure time during daylight but we do get a bit of light during getting ready for work time when we don’t really need it.
It’s all a plot by Big Torch!
In the US they claim it’s about kids walking to school/the bus stop
I fucking hate it
Wasn’t DST invented in America? How did it even get adopted by the EU?
I’m also seeing that it was formerly used in Russia, India, South America, and some parts of Africa, and it is still used in 4/5ths of Canada and 1/3 of Australia.
New Zealand entomologist George Hudson first proposed modern DST.
Easy to google, bud. Also, the concept is ancient.
That guy was in 1895, which is a hundred years after Ben Franklin suggested it, but neither of them were responsible because it wasn’t adopted until the early 20th century in Canada, Germany, Austria, and the USA roughly in that order.
Well thanks. TIL.
Having said that, “mentioning” is not inventing.
It would be cool if we had fat burning pizza. There you have it. I mentioned it first, so I invented it.
Not your fault that the Internet is full of casual misinformation. None of us are immune from that.
I’ve heard a few complaints today from people irl about having to change their clocks. Not about the time change itself, but having to change the time on clocks. It took me two minutes lol.
My eyes are tired, billy
It’s 6 am but is it really
Whether it’s 5 or 6 or 7, it’s too early.
I have not changed the clock for like 10 years or more. All my clocks are synchronized and the oven/microwave clock will permanently be a 00:00, I don’t have time set it every time lights go out…
No one is complaining about when we all gain an hours sleep in Autumn
I do. I can’t stand it because where I live it means I will no longer see the sun. Not to even mention how much it sucks ass from a mental standpoint to get out of work and have it be dark. I could not care less if I see a tiny bit of sunlight on my way to work lol. I’ve had multiple jobs where once ST hits, I’m going to work and coming home in darkness. I literally dont see the sun until the weekend. Imo give me whichever option that maximizes sunlight during most people’s free time.
give me whichever option that maximizes sunlight during most people’s free time
That’s not changed by adjusting clocks, it’s changed by adjusting work hours.
This makes no sense. Changing the number on the clocks isn’t what makes you change your sleep/wake cycle AT ALL. It’s changing when the working day starts that does that.
Uh yeah, that’s what I said.
I score zero for reading comprehension!
I hate the sun.
Fuck that yellow bastard.
I’m kind of the opposite, lol.
I miss my overnight shift.
I’d wake up, the world was quiet, there were no harsh lights to contend with, very few coworkers to deal with, even less management…
Just go in, put in my earbuds between calls, and do my shit. Then, when everyone is grumpy and trying to get coffee, I’m going home.
That being said, when the time changed it could be a blessing and a curse.
On one hand, sweet, short(ish) day… well, 11 hours. Then it swings the other way, and 13 hour shifts suck even more than 12 hours.
Watching the time roll back an hour feels very unfair when you’re on the clock and just want to go home, lol.
You hate standard time
DST moves the sun an hour later in the day
I have never liked it.
As a person, I don’t like the inconsistency.
As a developer, I don’t like to not be able to use the local time as a consistent way to order data.
As a father, I don’t like to have to adjust a daily routine of my baby who has just reached a good 24 hour schedule.
Putting out a fire you started feels like doing hero’s work.
You’ll trade one day of one extra hour of sleep for increased misery all winter long?
Well no, because if you remove DST you’d go for the time zone where noon means the sun is straight up. That’s the winter schedule, so you summer evenings get an hour shorter.
If we get rid of DST everybody needs to start work an hour earlier IMHO.
Anything for more light in the winter evening. I generally go to work when it’s dark and come home when it’s dark. It really fucks up my mental health. I honestly don’t know how many more winters I can handle, this was a rough one.
You dont gain an hour’s sleep.
How come?
A rose is a rose and time is time. That “extra hour” can be taken any time you want and has nothing to do with changing a clock twice a year. You’re going to sleep however mych you want or need to regardless of this construct. Also you “lose” that hour in spring
Ah yeah, fair point. I didn’t consider that option
I wish I could sleep however much I want or need. That sounds lovely.
Who are all these people waking up at a fixed time on the clock on a Sunday morning? Some people have to work of course but me working a weekday 9-5, my wake up times on the weekend can vary a huge amount.
I’ll take 7 hour workdays in summer instead.
Trying to make a non issue an issue
Yup, the time without DST is fine and they introduced DST that is an issue
Ok, how many analogue clocks does everyone have?
Mid-day should be the middle of the day. Mid-night should be the middle of the night.
If you like more light in the
eveningmorning go to bed late and wake up late. If you like light in themorningevening, go to bed early and wake up early.Stop fucking with the clocks and making nonsensible decisions
my problem with that is thats not really up to me, if i have to be up for work or down for work in a given time. and id love to leave work and have a bit of sunlight left.
If you like more light in the evening, go to bed late and wake up late.
What about people who are in school or employed?
If you like more light in the evening, go to bed late and wake up late. If you like light in the morning, go to bed early and wake up early.
Other way around. If you want a lighter evening, your day has to slide earlier so when you sleep is closer to sunset.
Yep… And damn I put so much effort into working that out and still got it wrong
Understandable. Everyone is sleepy this week.
Na, we should get rid of that idea completely. If everyone used one time like UTC (other time zones are available) and just align your working hours etc to your location.
Then 14:00 is 14:00 everywhere, just that some are asleep then, others are awake!
Mid-day should be the middle of the day. Mid-night should be the middle of the night.
You’d need new clocks, those times drift every day, so 12:00 midday would need to change automatically.
There are a lot of regions that are put into the wrong time zone, because that’s easier for business. They’re not even close to 12:00 being the middle of the day especially during DST.
It also depends on your location within your particular time zone. You can’t have noon at the same time of day on both the eastern and western end of the zone.
We aren’t all having the same argument. Solar noon should, indeed, be close to chronological noon, but that will only ever be true in the center of the time zone.
On “standard time” on the western end of a time zone, solar noon is (ostensibly) 11:30 am, while on the eastern end, it’s 12:30. Under DST, those times shift to 12:30 and 13:30, respectively. In zones wider than 15 degrees, there can be more than an hour difference.
When the eastern end of the zone argues for permanent Standard Time, and the western end of the zone argues for permanent DST, both ends are arguing for the same preference.
“Midday” (solar noon) should indeed be close to noon, but midday should never be before 12:00pm.
The solution is to lock the clocks on one system or the other, and allow political subdivisions to move the line so their clocks work best for them.
Yeah this comment makes no sense lol who is upvoting this?
Morons, people who didn’t read it fully, and people who want to encourage discourse.
Yes, but the EU is split into four time zones now and if you implement this technically there would be many more:
8 if we’d have 30-min time-zones 16 if we’d have 15-min time-zones 24 if we’d have 10-min time-zones 48 if we’d have 5-min time-zones 240 if we’d have 1-min time-zones
I’m not saying we should keep dst, but we can’t have everyone have midday at 12:00 and midnight at 00:00.
You can keep 1 hour time zones just fine. It still puts noon within 1 hour of mid day, which you don’t get with DST.
I can accept that. So long as after we lock the clocks on standard time, my region is allowed to switch to the next time zone to the west.
I don’t think the “noon = midday” argument is complete. I think noon should be close to, but never before midday. Midday should never occur at 11:30 AM, like it currently does on the western ends of the zones.
If you are arguing for permanent standard time and you are on the eastern end of your time zone, you are making the same argument as someone advocating DST from the western end.
That’s how it was back in the day. When you walked over a couple of villages you’d have to change your watch by 3 minutes.
I’m all for aligning life with the rhythm of nature and all, but I don’t see how that’d work in current times.
Tell my employer that.
This but unironic. Employers just do what everyone is doing, and will stop when everyone else does.
You’re more likely to win the euromillion than to successfully shift norms away from the 8:30-18:00 working hours. This shit is baked into every employment contract out there. I work an office job where it doesn’t matter so much, but anyone who works shifts or a time-sensitive job is stuck there basically forever regardless of the time zone.
Your first two lines need a caveat: … at a local meridian as chosen by the will of the people*.
Otherwise you end up in situations where every individual location sets their clock by local noon, which varies by longitude. If you think it’s bad there are a handful of different time zones across your continent, wait until it’s different from one end of town to the other.
The British invented (or popularised) standard time to avoid those sorts of problems. Problems that didn’t exist until high-speed long distance travel became a thing. And time zones were a later addition because Britain didn’t need any, but they’re also somewhat necessary.
* for “will of the people”, read “will of the ruling class” as necessary. See: China.
We need a standard system for tracking time. If every city decides their own time based on the sun it will be chaos.
Have the whole world go on UTC, that way there’s never confusion.
I’ve had way too many conversations with people that simply can’t comprehend how that works. “But then we’d have to do everything so much earlier, it would be dark all the time.” I try to explain that we’d still do everything at the same time of day, just call it something different, but they just can’t wrap their minds around that.
We can’t. It’d make it too easy to discover how arbitrary “9 to 5” is.
China has one time zone, but in Xinjiang they use local time anyway. Getting everyone on one time zone for daily use is unlikely.
This is the way
While we’re at it, cancel the time zones. I have no fucking clue why we’re still pretending everyone wakes up at the same time of the day all over the world. All it does is mess up scheduling for when you actually want to talk to people on the other side of the world.
How would we decide to handle the date with no time zones? Half the world would have a date switch during the daytime. Not necessarily impossible to navigate but it would be confusing for a while.
That is up to the people to decide. Have the date switch at 00:00 whenever that is, or switch it at whatever time is the middle of the night - I just want to be able to see the time written out and be able to tell how many hours from now that’s happening without googling what flavor of time fuckery any specific time zone abbreviation means. I don’t think changing dates is going to be more confusing than some countries having 15 minutes ahead of GMT time zones or screwing up everyone’s circadian rhythms twice a year.
That’s going to be way worse. I can get down with no timezones, but if we replace time zones with date zones you’ll end up with two locations where the same instant of time is either March 2nd at 3am or March 1st at 3am. There really just isn’t an easy way to handle time that works for all weird geographies and also makes it easy to schedule things across an ocean. But also, fuck daylight savings, that’s a totally unnecessary way of making it all worse than it needs to be.
I don’t mind just changing the date a 0 hours everywhere at once, personally. Though, there’s also a thing Japan already does where they list time at 25:00, 26:00 and so on - meaning 1 AM, 2 AM, but tomorrow. I think that might be handy for when you want to list the time that would technically be tomorrow but still during the current daylight period.
But… That’s already the case even with timezones… There already is an international date line where one side is a day off the other.
Imagine going to work and writing March 31st on documents all morning, and April 1st all afternoon.
You might remember that you have an appointment on the 5th. But, when you wake up on the 5th, you’ve already missed it.
