Yes, we both agree on this. Organic, natural, etc. are all, scientifically, ill defined, advertising labels.
Cool.
it is used in common lexicon, rather than a scientific, or technical one.
Which also isn’t very clear and seems mostly buzz & connotation.
While it means something, it can get awfully vague.
In common parlance, “processed” is often in context of health & medical claims attributed to scientific research: the page from Harvard is an example.
Food that contains a synthetic additive or preservative uncommon in households is certainly different.
Other mass-produced food merely seems like scaled-up foods I could make at home with varying effort: bread, pastries, cheese, fermented foods, ham, sausage, sauce, etc.
If they were presented with wrappers removed, I wouldn’t honestly know where it came from.
Salting, smoking, adding some preservatives like vinegar, lemon, or salt are also traditional.
Extracts like vanilla don’t require much industry (about as much as coffee or tea) and are often used in home cooking.
When I critically examine the food we make, the label “processed” more often puzzles me than tell me anything helpful.
Avoid processed foods.
Cool: which?
It often causes me to wonder if the person saying it has cooked, looked at cooking shows, or seen other cultures cook.
I recently had my partner grab a loaf of pumpernickel, or other dark rye, while she was out shopping. Instead of going to the bakery we normally shop at, she grabbed a bag of “pumpernickel” off the shelf, at the super market. It is less than 2% rye. The flour mix is processed with cocoa and an unspecified alkali, to achieve the color, in the absence of enough dark rye flour. They also add an unspecified caramel coloring into the dough to complete the coloring. They then add natural, but otherwise not traditionally used, flavoring to better achieve the flavor of “pumpernickel”, again, minus the proper flour mix. They then add an extract propionic acid, mixed with a synthetic sorbic acid, to extend shelf life. They use synthetic monoglycerides to improve the stability of the emulsification, which both improves texture, and extends shelf life. They add soy based lipid extracts to preserve the “moist” feel of the bread.
This is what people have in mind when they say ultra-processed. This is, in no way, how you would normally make pumpernickel. This is like a farce of this bread, that is cheaper, and much longer lasting, approximation of bread.
Right, that supermarket bread is definitely way more processed, probably ultraprocessed.
However, is the bread from the bakery ultraprocessed?
Where’d that flour, yeast or baking soda, sugar & other purified ingredients come from?
Do the ingredients not have strange, synthetic additives?
Is that enough to qualify as ultraprocessed for nutrition guidelines?
Could we be biased not to count it as ultraprocessed just because bakeries feel better?
I suspect the supermarket bread is worse, but I’m also aware I could be wrong, or they could both be so bad the difference doesn’t matter, so I honestly don’t know.
If the bakery bread is definitely better for you yet ultraprocessed, then that label isn’t particularly useful.
It’s really unhelpful if avoiding industrial ingredients would have gotten us the same results without the overanalysis.
Do the ingredients not have strange, synthetic additives?
They do not, each ingredient has to list everything that went into the product you get, and it will say only the stuff you want. If you buy a bag of flour, it will say (type) flour, and maybe give you the average protein content of the flour. If you buy a spice it will say the only ingredient is that spice. So, smaller scale bakers, as in not the “bakeries” in places like Walmart, will not have any of that in their food. If there is something that is heavily processed, in a not traditional manner, it will usually be an aspect that stands out, and you can simply ask them about what they use, like coloring in icing. If they make bread, they make normal bread, that will harden over night, and start molding in a couple days. A lot of places like this will also be happy to explain exactly how they make their products too, as they know that information can be crucial due to allergies, cultural stuff, etc. Most bakeries I know, now, exclusively use coloring that come from juices, spices, herbs, etc., that have vibrant colors. The trade-off is that they will not stay that vibrant for more than a day or two. If you request abnormal colors that are not sourced that way, they will inform you that they will have to use a dye that may be synthetic. I realize this isn’t everywhere, but I live in a small, dying, rust belt, city, so if I can get this kind of service, it should be fairly common outside of truly rural places. Though you might have to leave your suburb to get something in the city.
Cool.
Which also isn’t very clear and seems mostly buzz & connotation. While it means something, it can get awfully vague.
In common parlance, “processed” is often in context of health & medical claims attributed to scientific research: the page from Harvard is an example.
Food that contains a synthetic additive or preservative uncommon in households is certainly different. Other mass-produced food merely seems like scaled-up foods I could make at home with varying effort: bread, pastries, cheese, fermented foods, ham, sausage, sauce, etc. If they were presented with wrappers removed, I wouldn’t honestly know where it came from.
Salting, smoking, adding some preservatives like vinegar, lemon, or salt are also traditional. Extracts like vanilla don’t require much industry (about as much as coffee or tea) and are often used in home cooking.
When I critically examine the food we make, the label “processed” more often puzzles me than tell me anything helpful. Avoid processed foods. Cool: which? It often causes me to wonder if the person saying it has cooked, looked at cooking shows, or seen other cultures cook.
Ok a recent example I have come across.
I recently had my partner grab a loaf of pumpernickel, or other dark rye, while she was out shopping. Instead of going to the bakery we normally shop at, she grabbed a bag of “pumpernickel” off the shelf, at the super market. It is less than 2% rye. The flour mix is processed with cocoa and an unspecified alkali, to achieve the color, in the absence of enough dark rye flour. They also add an unspecified caramel coloring into the dough to complete the coloring. They then add natural, but otherwise not traditionally used, flavoring to better achieve the flavor of “pumpernickel”, again, minus the proper flour mix. They then add an extract propionic acid, mixed with a synthetic sorbic acid, to extend shelf life. They use synthetic monoglycerides to improve the stability of the emulsification, which both improves texture, and extends shelf life. They add soy based lipid extracts to preserve the “moist” feel of the bread.
This is what people have in mind when they say ultra-processed. This is, in no way, how you would normally make pumpernickel. This is like a farce of this bread, that is cheaper, and much longer lasting, approximation of bread.
Right, that supermarket bread is definitely way more processed, probably ultraprocessed.
However, is the bread from the bakery ultraprocessed? Where’d that flour, yeast or baking soda, sugar & other purified ingredients come from? Do the ingredients not have strange, synthetic additives? Is that enough to qualify as ultraprocessed for nutrition guidelines? Could we be biased not to count it as ultraprocessed just because bakeries feel better?
I suspect the supermarket bread is worse, but I’m also aware I could be wrong, or they could both be so bad the difference doesn’t matter, so I honestly don’t know.
If the bakery bread is definitely better for you yet ultraprocessed, then that label isn’t particularly useful. It’s really unhelpful if avoiding industrial ingredients would have gotten us the same results without the overanalysis.
They do not, each ingredient has to list everything that went into the product you get, and it will say only the stuff you want. If you buy a bag of flour, it will say (type) flour, and maybe give you the average protein content of the flour. If you buy a spice it will say the only ingredient is that spice. So, smaller scale bakers, as in not the “bakeries” in places like Walmart, will not have any of that in their food. If there is something that is heavily processed, in a not traditional manner, it will usually be an aspect that stands out, and you can simply ask them about what they use, like coloring in icing. If they make bread, they make normal bread, that will harden over night, and start molding in a couple days. A lot of places like this will also be happy to explain exactly how they make their products too, as they know that information can be crucial due to allergies, cultural stuff, etc. Most bakeries I know, now, exclusively use coloring that come from juices, spices, herbs, etc., that have vibrant colors. The trade-off is that they will not stay that vibrant for more than a day or two. If you request abnormal colors that are not sourced that way, they will inform you that they will have to use a dye that may be synthetic. I realize this isn’t everywhere, but I live in a small, dying, rust belt, city, so if I can get this kind of service, it should be fairly common outside of truly rural places. Though you might have to leave your suburb to get something in the city.