Who has ever said they’re communists?
That part supporters of either group fail at is that neither Hamas or the Israeli government are worthy of support or in the right. One behaves worse than the other at the moment. But there can never be peace with those two in power. It’s a really fucked situation and my heart really hurts for the people caught in the crossfire of it all.
Note: This is sure as shit not meant to downplay or deny Israel’s ongoing genocide. Only to point out the absurdity of some online leftists in simping for Hamas and expressing disbelief that far-right theocrats with a history of committing terrible crimes would commit terrible crimes.
What are you talking about? It is a conflict between two parties and everybody knows that things have to be black and white!!
I demand to know which of the two are the good guys!
I saw that, which is why I didn’t label the character “OP.” It was intended more of a response in general, not a specific criticism of you.
You also have to recognize that there’s no line between Palestinians and Hamas. I don’t mean that it’s hard to find. I mean there isn’t one.
72% of Palestinians believe the attack on Israel was “correct”. And presumably some of the remainder are smart enough to not admit to that.
Hamas still enjoys wide, wide support among Palestinians, for some valid reasons.
72% of Palestinians believe the attack on Israel was “correct”.
This is only because it was. And I’m really sad to say it, but it definitely was “correct”.
Listen. Palestinians are fighting a losing war. Their enemy has taken their homes and is ethnically cleansing the region. There is NOTHING that they can do about it. We’re watching the death throes of an entire people. And sometimes when you corner an animal, it bites. It’s not gonna be nice. But Israel is fully responsible for this situation. It wasn’t Palestine that wanted the two state solution. It wasn’t Palestine that illegally settled Israel and stole their land. It wasn’t Palestine that got granted an entire fucking country for no reason. It wasn’t Palestine rigging elections in Israel and supporting the local terrorist organization. Israel has been the architect of all this destruction. Piece by piece, little by little, with the international community backing them and turning a blind eye to their genocide.
Everything Palestine can throw at Israel, it’s justified. And I hope they do enough damage for Israel civilians to maybe think “hey, I don’t want this. Let’s get these warring fucks out of power and end this. Let me get out of this failed notion of a state, I don’t want to be a part of it, I don’t want to support displacing and killing off an entire people”. But it won’t. It’ll just do a bit of damage to retaliate against the genocide, just enough to maybe make 1-2 people feel like they avenged the many loved ones who died. And I think - good. If you’re gonna die anyway, if you’re doomed either way? Fuck them. Fuck those Nazi assholes. Take off as big of a chunk as you can. Make them bleed, to remind them they’re not invincible. Just as a last act of defiance before they finish you off.
I mean… judging by Israel’s response this comment is some special kind of delirious. I’ve thought the day it happened “Welp, Israel is respond in kind”. Not because I’m some geopolitical genius mind you, but because it was extremely obvious.
Yeah and so is Israel. I don’t support either, I support Palestinians.
I agree.
Very telling to (rightfully) say “both sides are bad” but not say “I support civilians on both sides”. You know you can condemn a far right regime but still show solidarity with that country’s population, right?
Now that the terrorist attack is behind them, Isreali citizens arent currently being bombed the shit out of and active warzoned. Are they at risk of future terrorist attacks? Yes, but CURRENTLY its Palestinian citizens who are at a FAR higher risk
Edit: Lmao, apparently Tankies can see and reply to me even if I cant see them. I assume this is because I havent blocked them personally, but instance blocked Hexbear
Clarification to my Edit: Tankies if you are confused why Im insulting you even though you think I’m on the same side as you, Hamas can go fuck itself. Just like Isreal doesnt represent all Isreali citizens, neither does Hamas represent Palestinians. Isreal and Hamas can go fuck themselves, they are both pretty awful. I feel for Palestinians and consider them the most fucked over in this ordeal, but what Hamas did was VILE, even if what Isreal is doing in response is even more so
Oh so the thousands of rockets fired specifically at the Israeli population are perfectly fine.
The only people on Hamas’ side are Netanyahu, the former Muslim Brotherhood, and Iran who all worked hard to keep Hamas well funded and in a position of authority. The important thing is to side with Palestine, not with Hamas.
And some online loons, but yes.
Nah I’m fine with backing Hamas in this case, it doesn’t mean I’m home with entering they’ve done or do but I can say that for literally every country including my own.
I don’t think there is any world or any set of circumstances that would have me backing terrorists, but you do you I guess.
You get that Israel was created by terrorists correct? It’s like a very perfect pot kettle situation.
Sure it is.
It is though. They’re both terrorist states that opportunistically attack each other but one thing is factually different Israel has killed more civilians even before the festival attack and subsequent “self defense” ethnic cleansing.
Funny how you immediately assumed I approve of the actions of the Israeli government. Even more funny: given the choice between which baby killers to back you pick a side. I’m against killing babies.
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When did I say anything positive about the Israeli government?
You are just looking to fight on the internet aren’t you?
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Pretty sure he was referring to Hamas.
Everyone who fights against the genocidal state of Israel is by definition a freedom fighter.
The brain rot here is something else.
Ever heard of the enemy of my enemy being my friend? You may disagree but it’s a valid position to take.
The US took that position, and we got the Taliban. Yay!
who thought hamas was communist?
Its warcriminals fighting warcriminals, change my mind.
The only thing I can say is that both have no problem with harming combatants and civilians alike, but one side is disproportionately killing civilians with the resources at their disposal (Israel) just because they can.
I’m not convinced that Hamas wouldn’t do the same if the tables were turned, but one side needs to be better if we’re ever to see an end to this conflict.
We can guess they would, as they are backed by iran, who has declared they want to wipe Israel off the map.
(Not Zion posting, Israel is commiting genocide, just saying Hamas is no better, just less capable)
Too many people don’t get that, I am 100% against Hamas, that might be different, if instead of a bunch of civilians, they had just taken like legitimate military people, I know everyone in Israel’s a veteran blah blah blah.
Hell, I could even have a lot more respect for them if they immediately released everyone who wasn’t an Israeli soldier.
Shit even if they just give up the fucking children.
But they didn’t do any of that and they’re complete fucking bastards and cowards.
But I can say damn hear everything the same against fucking Israel here.
They are both bad, and I don’t understand the people who are only against one or the other.
Yeah. Hamas doesn’t have any moral high ground, but the one that needs to be restrained at this moment in time is Israel.
People are also more eager to criticise Israel because Hamas is just a terrorist organisation and they hold Israel to a higher standard.
I guess the Israeli government isn’t happy about being treated as more than a terrorist organisation?
Ehh, Hamas would have killed just as many if not far more civilians by now if Israel didn’t have such good defenses with things like the iron dome.
Hamas and the Islamic brotherhood have only fired 12,000 rockets at Israel since 10/7. I’m sure they don’t want to kill indiscriminately, just give the Israelis a fireworks show! /s
If 12,000 rockets fired means they are attacking indiscriminately, what would you say about the many more thousands of bombs that the IDF has dropped over the entire area of Gaza? Why are IDF engineers rigging residential buildings with bombs and destroying them after clearing them out? What is the purpose of their missile strikes on refugee convoys and ambulances?
I’m actually kind of skeptical of that number. Gaza isn’t big enough to drop 16,000 bombs on.
Why are IDF engineers
They want a DMZ between Gaza and Israel. (and let’s see how long before Israeli settlers move in.)
What is the purpose of their missile strikes on refugee convoys and ambulances?
Hamas wins when Israelis die. Hamas wins when Palestinians die. Ambulances and hospitals are the best places for Hamas to hide.
We should all know WHY Israel is doing what they’re doing. Hell, we know why Hamas is doing what they’re doing. That doesn’t make it right.
I haven’t seen a number of bombs dropped by the IDF recently, but it was in the thousands last I heard probably in December. Israel also has much heavier munitions and is capable of high accuracy. Independent analysis show that by November 6th, the IDF had dropped at least 500 2,000 pound bombs, causing impact craters larger than 40 feet, in densely populated residential areas.
The heavy munitions, mostly manufactured by the US, can cause high casualty events and can have a lethal fragmentation radius – an area of exposure to injury or death around the target – of up to 365 meters (about 1,198 feet), or the equivalent of 58 soccer fields in area.
Israel dropped hundreds of 2,000-pound bombs on Gaza, analysis shows
Whether or not militants hide in hospitals or ambulances it is abhorrent to attack medical staff and is generally recognized as a war crime. There have been numerous deaths of independent observers, foreign medical staff. More UN aid workers have been killed by the IDF since October than in any other conflict in their history.
Yeah, I’m not making excuses for anyone. People just have this tendency to exaggerate towards “their” side.
Taking either side in this thing like it’s a sports team seems kind of obscene to me. We don’t need to be making things up to try to “win” an online argument.
Regardless of how much damage Israel has done, I don’t think they’ve dropped 16,000 bombs.
I always thought the IDF was supposed to be super skilled and tactical. I expected surgical strikes to take out terrorists and minimize civilian casualties. They had a reputation for strength.
Turns out they’re either incompetent or they’re genocidal or both. Hint: both.
Unfortunately, for those in the know, the IDF’s callous and sadistic operations in Palestine have been known for some time. They had a good PR arm making themselves out to be super careful in the occupied territories, but it was always at odds with their actions.
If their good pr looks like that, I can’t imagine the bad pr arm
Well, the good PR arm is pre-October 7, back when they were ‘just’ doming American citizens and tying Palestinian children to their vehicles as human shields. Right now I’m pretty sure their entire PR team is either on vacation celebrating that their job is over now that Israel is going mask off, or have chosen to eat a bullet over seeing their work whitewashing all these atrocities pissed away by Netanyahu.
They weren’t that great before. lol
Just needed to be good enough to convince a significant portion of the American electorate to back them to the hilt.
I don’t get too worked up by right-wing religious nuts harming other right-wing religious nuts.
Sadly, there are many innocents who are caught between the two.
Yep, thats my Main issue. Also there seems to be a group oft people that can make out the good guys in this conflict, which isnt a thing i think.
But the IDF is the most moral army in the world, they said so.
oh, okay then. if people say they are something they just are, right?
Obviously, no one is allowed to lie on the internet
I don’t know why it’s so hard for certain people to understand that sometimes (actual most of the time), all sides are the bad guys.
Maybe, there are more sides than just the people with guns and bombs.
Sounds like those people need to pick a side or risk getting gunned down or bombed.
They are both bad, but one of them trades with the rest of the world. That’s why most governments lean towards them.
Correction. One is a democracy, so the rest of the world trades with it.
They are hardly democratic. But at least they are much better with contracts, promises and commitments.
Democracy only lives up to it’s potential when its people work for it and it seems it doesn’t happen often. Sometimes we get it right.
The Nazis and the Allies. Both the bad guys. Stupid Allies bombing Dresden.
‘Sometimes’ and even ‘most of the time’ isn’t ‘all the time’.
WW2 is an exceptionally rare event in which one side is so fucking awful that the support of the opposition is mandatory to not be a vile piece of shit.
Like the israelis committing genocide you mean.
No. The Israelis committing genocide is the extremely common event in which one side is awful enough that supporting them in unconscionable. It doesn’t make their equally genocide-eager but less genocide-capable foes morally necessary to support.
You are going to be in for a real surprise if you learn the things the ANC did to the Apartheid. And the Native Americans did to their colonizers when raising villages. And all these other resistance movements that we now describe as “heroic”.
October 7 sure as hell wasn’t the cleanest attack ever, but it sure was a lot less genocidal than almost every resistance group that has ever done these kinds of things.
October 7 sure as hell wasn’t the cleanest attack ever, but it sure was a lot less genocidal than almost every resistance group that has ever done these kinds of things.
Jesus fucking Christ.
Yeah unlike what you seem to believe these resistances against Apartheid and Genocide werent magical fairy tales of the good guys and the bad guys.
Dresden bombing by the way. Poor Germans had to self defense against the genocidal allies according to you?
I’m still waiting on that planned attack video from Hamas that you promised.
Look up the fire bombing of Tokyo.
They aren’t far right or far anything. They are an indigenous justified resistance to occupation with an Islamic outlook and foundation. If you want to support a leftist resistance group there’s the PFLP but they aren’t fighting the colonizers to the scale Hamas is.
Hamas has always allowed elections and asked for it. It is the corrupt [also secular] Palestinian Authority that wouldn’t allow for elections to happen.
I’m sorry, but from what I know of Islam, “Islamic outlook and foundation” = far right. To be fair, I would say the same if you replaced Islamic with “Christian” or “Jewish.” Seems to me, without the religious us vs them, this would be a few degrees easier to solve.
Doesn’t justify the bombing of hospitals and civilians. Nobody likes Hamas but they’re the result of Israel’s illegal annexation of Palestinian territories and subsequent genocide.
What do you think the Palestinians who had their house and families expropriated, blown up and/or resettled by an Apartheid State will do? Not like/join the guys who want to get rid of Israel more?
Before Israel’s bombing campaign, Hamas wasn’t very popular among Palestinians, now however I assume Israel gave Hamas way more recruits.
Before Israel’s bombing campaign, Hamas wasn’t very popular among Palestinians,
That’s not true in the least.
The state of Israel is older than Hamas and Israel bombing Palestinians started before 7th of October 2023. I think the establishment of Hamas in 1987 and rising popularity till they got elected on Gaza in 2007 can be fairly attributed to Israel’s bombing, displacement and apartheid rule of civilians.
I don’t disagree with this, but Hamas was created by Israel, and now Israel is bombing all of Gaza because of Hamas. It really seems like Israel has been planning this genocide for a loooong time.
In the same vein, Israel’s right-wing regime was in no small part created by Islamist hostilities towards Israel and Jewish people from the very start
Do you mean prior to the Israeli occupation of Palestine in 1967? Because I think it’s somewhat reasonable to be hostile towards an occupational force.
Not a gotcha I’m genuinely curious at what point in history you are referring to, apologies if it sounds antagonistic.
Not only an occupational force, but one extending colonial rule with arguably as bad or worse treatment of the native populace (and no, jews moving to Israel are not native to the land just because that was true a long time ago and they have a book telling them it is so).
How are you just casually missing 20 years of history before that? Not to mention the preceeding 1000 years.
So you’re saying Israel has a right to genocide Palestine because of the previous thousand years of history before 1967?
We can cherry pick timelines if we want to, but the fact is that Israel has occupied Palestine for the last 50 years. This is why Hamas exists, and this is the issue we face today.
The previous thousand years only serve as propaganda for modern Israel to be on board with the genocide.
This is just straight up islamophobic rhetoric
Wow, those leaps could set a world record. Get real. You’re cherry picking and then accusing me of cherry picking?
What leaps are you referring to?
If you knew anything about what you said, you’d be able to figure that out yourself.
Note: This is sure as shit not meant to downplay or deny Israel’s ongoing genocide. Only to point out the absurdity of some online leftists in simping for Hamas and expressing disbelief that far-right theocrats with a history of committing terrible crimes would commit terrible crimes.
Hey @Satelllliiiiiiiteeee what part of this do you disagree with?
What is this type of comment? I see kbin folks do it often
We can see downvotes so I tagged them to see why.
Great part of kbin is up and downvotes are public
Daily reminder that the word terrorism was only coined to prevent the obvious escalation when non violent protests are either ignored or put down violently.
When you’ve tried peaceful protest and nothing changes you only have one option left.
But you see, in a dialectical analysis, far-right terrorists like Hamas serve a progressive role by not being the US, and therefore deserve critical support by leftists who are definitely not crypto-fascists. —Marxist-Leninists
