“I don’t know anything about the arguments on Hexbear, but am still just going to go ahead and make simplistic assumptions about arguments on Hexbear.”

Can you please describe a scenario where Ukraine is able to stop losing territory, re-capture all the territory they want, including Crimea? Remember, we’re years into this and Ukraine’s population has been decimated by emigration and combat losses. If you can’t come up with a plausible path to victory, then continuing to fight only guarantees more death and more lost territory.

States aren’t people.

Oh look, another liberal that didn’t pay attention to this conflict until 2022.

You seem to believe what the Western media has been telling you for the past three years: that ebil Putler woke up one day out of nowhere and decided to imperialistically invade Ukraine. Russia didn’t start the war and it didn’t start in 2022 either, it started in 2014 with the US-backed nazi coup in Ukraine. As for your SA comparison, that’s just gross and frankly a strawman argument anyway.

reality is pro-russian by default

stop punching back

The figurative fist in that analogy is child conscripts being forced at gunpoint into a meatgrinder for the vanity and profit of US-aligned politicians and fascist military leaders, and every time the fist lands they have to go get a new fist because it gets annihilated.

And the war only happened in the first place because they kept taking swings at their neighbor whom they wanted to annex in violation of ceasefire agreements where they promised to stop doing that, while loudly shouting that any day now they’d join a gang and be given nukes, prompting their other neighbor to intercede to stop the existing conflict and prevent them from getting nukes.

It’s more like our stance is based around reality. We also have zero affection for Nazis unlike NATO. Russia is a terrible capitalist state which has more manpower than Ukraine, more weapons than Ukraine and possesses Nuclear Weapons and will not give up Crimea under any circumstance. The war exists solely to benefit the NATO Military Industrial Complex at this point. Ukraine can not afford this war as a people and yet they’re chasing a pipe dream for the sake of American Billionaires.

Additionally, the war is a result of Ukraine not following Minsk 2 agreements and using that time to stall and arm themselves to wage war against the DPR/LPR.

Stop acting like you care about Ukrainians. You just want the Ukrainians to keep fighting so europe and the US dont have to, and can use innocent ukrainians as meat shields. Your scared Russia will keep going after Ukraine and are completely fine with letting Ukrainians die to keep europe safe.

You claim to care about Ukrainians yet your on hexbear of all places arguing with random internet people who just want peace instead of reckoning with the fact that this war only happened because the US and europe pressured Ukraine to give up its nukes in exchange for security garuntees they didnt honor, and literally purposefully antagnoized Russia hoping it would do this. And then they used the war to test their weapons and get rid of backstock without having to use their own soldiers.

You also seem to not care about the Ukrainians who were being slaughtered by Azov before this war even started. A battalion trained by the west and purposefully radicalized to cause chaos in Ukraine.

You reduce an entire war and the mutli decade lead up to it down to “Well do you support Ukraine or Russia” as if either option is somehow the moral choice. Moral people support PEACE. It doesnt matter what flag flies over your head if you can choose to either be shot at or not. you choose to not be shot at.

Would it be nice if we could go back in time and warn Ukraine not to give up its nukes and not to trust the wests garuntees? Yeah. But we cant. We have to deal with the situation we have, and somehow stop the horrific war taking place before even more innocent people die. If thinking that the war should end before Ukraine literally runs out of soldiers to send to die makes me a “Russia supporter” then whatever. Fuck you.

Fascist

Ukraine can’t win the war. The longer it goes on, the more of them will die and the more land they will have to surrender.

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Oh i thought tactical nukes were just like a smaller class of nuke.

In Russia, Nazis like the Wagner group were used as cannon fodder, given poor supplies, and had their leader assassinated. In Ukraine, Nazis like the Azov battalion are directly integrated into the military command structure, given the best equipment, and are the ones using other people as cannon fodder. Some non-nazi Ukrainians sign up with the Nazi factions because it’s more likely to survive than if they were snatched off the street and conscripted into a meat grinder regiment. No one in Russia is doing that, which shows how differently they are treated in each country. These Nazis are also celebrated by the west, like how Canada had a standing ovation in parliament for a literal SS veteran because he “fought against Russia in WW2.”

Russian nazis aren’t in positions of power, whereas in Ukraine they run the intelligence branch, they’re mayors, they’re police chiefs, they’re in the cabinet. Azov wasn’t like a “kind of” nazi militia, they were explicitly nazis and the Ukrainian government has taken them into the military and use them as elite troops. Russia’s militarized nazis were in the Wagner group, which you might remember were used in brutal and unforgiving ways which conveniently liquidated of a bunch of them. It’s impossible to identify why the Russian government chose to use them as expendables, but it sure seems like a decision based on not valuing the lives of nazis whatsoever. Furthermore, Russia never had a fascist government engaging in pogroms and ethnic cleansing, whereas Ukraine has the Banderite fascists in their history and they officially venerate them. They are systematically renaming things with Soviet names to name them after Banderite scum. In 2014, the US backed fascist factions who overthrew the government and murdered opposition party supporters en masse.

Then there’s my “favorite” CIA-related detail about this, Project Aerodynamic (link intentionally broken because it’s linking directly to the CIA website) cia dot gov/readingroom/docs/AERODYNAMIC%20%20%20VOL.%201_0118.pdf

CIA started relocating nazis and banderites to Ukraine in the 1950s with the explicit intention of empowering a fascist opposition with the ultimate goal of destabilizing the USSR and creating a fascist breakaway state. They never stopped this type of thing, that’s why Azov were acting as the CIA’s pawns on the ground as early as 2014.

I personally do bring up Russian Nazis whenever I see that the tone of the conversation crosses into buying Russian propaganda too much, even if ironically, which can be an issue on hexbear.

Ukraine being backed by the most powerful fascist government in the world – the US – is indeed part of the reason why people tend to emphasise Ukrainian Nazis. Another part is that Ukrainian nationalism is often uncrititically accepted and propagated by Western media. An example you’ve probably seen is the widespread use of the “Slava Ukraini” slogan, which has a history of being used by Ukrainian Nazi collaborators.

You see, it’s about power dynamics. Also, stick around long enough and you’ll see plenty of folks calling out Russian Nazi’s. They just aren’t at the leading edge of this conflict in the way Ukrainian Nazi’s ala-Banderites and Azov are, so you’re pretty close there I think with your reasoning.

Edit to add: you should be overwhelmingly seeing support for Ukrainian and Russian citizens equally, I don’t think anybody here is intentionally painting all Ukrainian’s as Nazi’s, just the ones that are actual proud Nazi’s.