A lot of people now are frustrated with contemporary series being much shorter than they used to be. Down from 20-24 episodes a season in the 90s and 00s to about 10-12 in the 10s and 6-10 now (varies somewhat by streaming service and country). People are also frustrated with the big gaps between seasons (The Last of Us, HOTD, Stranger Things) which I do completely agree with and think needs to change.
My ideal is about 10-12. I personally really dislike 20-24 episode long series, and dislike the “monster of the week” formula that many older series used to have. At least for dramatic shows. For sitcoms and adult animation it makes more sense due to much shorter episodes and a more flippant and less high-stakes style of writing (although I don’t gravitate so-much to that type of show in the first place).
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I think HBO had it right with their 13 episode shows. There’s just enough time for a rich, fulfilling arc, while not feeling rushed.
When it shrunk to 10, we managed it well, but always wanted one more episode. When it dropped to eight, suddenly there was no room to breathe.
Now with them creeping down to 6 & 7, I’m wondering why I even bother investing in a show.
TLOU is kind of frustrating. Season one had 10 episodes (two got squished together as a 90min pilot after they shot them, and that’s why it came out to 9). But season two’s seven measly episodes? Why adapt a show if you’re not even going to explore the story and characters in new ways? There’s no time to do that in seven episodes.
So yeah, when I watch these older shows like sopranos, wire, deadwood… I’m like “hell yeah, this is the sweet spot.” Oh add Andor to that list. 12 worked well for the structure of that show. Both seasons.
For me a lot depends on how well they can sustain the writing over the season. Some of the longer running seasons, hell, even some shorter seasons had episodes that are clearly filler because they had a fixed quota of episodes but not quite enough script and/or budget to cover all of them to the same standard.
I think most people will be familiar with the Breaking Bad episode Fly, which is the worst rated by some margin on the entire show. It had its budget stolen for the episodes around it, and frankly it sucks. It would have been better if they just went one episode less that season. This is why I am in favor of the show only having enough episodes that it can actually sustain with great content, and may be that number varies season to season.
Monster of the week shows like Buffy that have a season long big story arc and usually single shot weekly stories it is even more important not to over do it with poor quality filler. and over stretch the big story arc to the point it becomes boring.
It depends on the series, there’s not a single formula good for all. If you want a dramatic “8 hours long movie” like The Last of Us, you cannot get a 24 episode season, because it would be boring/inconclusive, and the years between season is neede because these series are hard to make and take a long time. You can’t have the cake and eat it too, it’s either high quality series or one season every year (also see Fargo for an exmaple of this, one of the series I enjoyed the most and they take their good time to delived it).
If you like want less action drama and prefer extensive character and world building (see Star Trek), it’s very difficult to do so in 12 episodes, so 24 was used to sprinkle small details in a broader picture, and while the “monster of the week” trope is sometimes silly (also see early Star Trek) it sometimes make sense in the universe of the show (like Star Trek Voyager meeting a different species ebery week because they are literally travelling through the galaxy, or crime shows where you a literally going through a detective’s life one case at a time, while exploring their character and culture). With a lot of episodes you also have the advantage of being able to explore a ton of different topics and take your time to properly do it, more than an 8 hour movie can do. Also these types of series usually are less expensive to make so it’s easier to spit out 24 episodes seasons every year (altough it’s equally easy to drop in quality). They can also feel more “down to earth” insteaf of bombastic, if you appreciate this (like I do) they can be more enjoyable than the protagonist trying to save the world every season.
I’ve been beating this drum for a long time and all it’s gotten me is yelled at. I’ve seen some excellent shows that are ~12 eps per season, but every single one of them would have been even better with more episodes. You don’t get proper character development or world building with a dozen episodes. It’s frankly a terrible way to make TV shows. You may as well watch a movie trilogy and call it a day. I think of some of my favorite shows from the 80s and 90s that had 20+ episode seasons and there are all these standout episodes that really helped make the shows that we absolutely would not have gotten with this awful British TV model of 3 episodes every 5 years because there wouldn’t be any time to devote to a side story that later feeds into a plot development or a character arc. I’ve often heard people say the old shows had a bunch of filler episodes, but outside of clip shows (which to be clear are awful), they really didn’t. Some people just can’t deal with a story that isn’t very linear. Deep Space 9’s In the Pale Moonlight, Voyager’s Year of Hell, and really pretty much all of Babylon 5 would not have been made in today’s TV environment, and that’s a real shame.
A dozen episodes (at roughly 50 minutes an episode) a season is still about 11 hours. That’s more than a movie trilogy would be in a single season. By quite a bit. It’s not fair to say that’s basically a movie trilogy.
To be fair, the LotR trilogy is 3 movies at ~3.5 hours, which is 10.5 hours—close enough to 11 hours.
Now, if you’re not getting character development and world building in much less time than that, it’s either a problem with execution or expectations.
True, but the LOTR trilogy is not representative of most trilogies.
Also in this comparison we’d be talking about the first season being the length of LOTR… There could be 3 or 4 more seasons to continue the character development.
DS9 is the perfect sweet spot that they got by chance of fighting with Rick. The early seasons were more episodic and thus more character driven. This gave characters lots of growth. Then when you do that for a few seasons bam. Cool multi episode serial arcs that put even modern shows to shame with flushed out characters modern shows only dream about and becase you are not locked in to one format or the other. You can have a fun baseball episode to blow off some steam in the middle of a war.
90s style and early 2000s. Without the larger number of episodes you can’t have the fun episodes. You will not get character growth with only a few episodes. You won’t have characters go from loving and funny to pissed off. At least you won’t have it make sense.
Honestly if they keep going the route they are, I’ll just watch movies and re runs of old shows (on dvd/bluray). I have no interest in a TV show that only has 6 episodes in a season. By the time I start to get interested in a character(s), the season is over or the show is cancelled.
Well to be fair, not all shows are designed to be ‘fun’ as such. I can’t imagine something like Dark, or Silo, or Black Sails or Mr. Robot having “fun” episodes (Elliot Aldersons dream in S02 not withstanding).
Black sails is mostly fun episodes though. Or I just mostly had a blast watching them.
Yeah, but it’s a pretty serious show is what I mean.
You can have character growth in a couple dozen episodes though.
Wednesday even had some character growth in only one season, although it resulted in her just becoming more like everyone else in a way I didn’t really like.
IMHO long ago pacing was better. You had 20-24 episodes with a pause mid season. Airing date would start in october and ends in april/may or something like that. You didn’t have to wait more than 8 months to get next season.
Nowadays what would be ideal in my point of view would be :
- 8 to 12 episodes to allow for more development
- release each weeks and not all at once (thankfully a lot of network still do that) so you can reflect and discuss about episodes. It makes tv shows more memorable. Back then it was nice when lost aired each week and you had plenty of theories flying around!
- pretend season 1 and 2 are actually season 1 part 1 and 2 if it doesn’t ends with first part. Release second part something like 3-4 months instead of at best a year later.
- if show works and network is up to another season decide it before part 1 ends so there is a 10–12 months maximum wait after part 2 ends.
Yes basically not a lot different as before!
But Sadly it’s unlikely as doing small season minimize risks if shows is not working.Short seasons, don’t bother me if they’re done well. My main complaint is having to wait more than a year for the next season. It’s especially ridiculous when that season is short. I shouldn’t have to wait three years for eight episodes. By then I have lost interest.
I prefer 10 hour-long episodes. Anthology format is also cool. I’ve also become a fan of Andor’s 3-episode arc for a 4-week season.
6 seasons
24 episodes a season
30 minutes for comedies, 60 minutes for dramas
I think for me it’s not so much the amount of episodes but how they are released. Most of my favorite shows have varying amount of episodes per season but they all were released weekly over several years or at least months. And I’ve come to the realization that the reason why I can’t grow attached to modern shows the same way I could with 90s-00s and early 10s television is that binging 6-10 episodes over a couple of days once a year just isn’t the same kind of experience and emotional investment as following a group of characters and a plot week by week over several seasons, literally growing up with them and the story.
I’m not saying today’s model is all inherently bad but I personally often miss that kind of old-school television where reaching over a 100 episodes was almost the norm for even semi-popular shows. I wish they could coexist.
I want another series like Babylon 5.
Whatever doesn’t feel too long. Agents of Shield had 1/3 season arcs that felt good. Legion had 3 seasons of about 10 episodes, which felt good. Any episodic show with 30 minute episodes is good.
Comedy, six seasons (24 EP per) and a movie.
It really depends on the show. If it’s something with a compelling story, like an action drama or a mystery, I prefer 40-60 minutes with 6-10 episodes per season. Depends on how strong the writing is. Shows that do it right: Severance, Andor, Slow Horses.
If it’s more comedy focused, like a sitcom, 20 minutes an episode is fine. A little over if necessary is fine. Shows that do this well: Shrinking, Most animated comedy shows like Rick & Morty…
Depends on the show, but 30 minute episodes à la 12-24 is nice
