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I like your grandma. She cared for you; she took a risk by exposing herself to potential danger, fact-checked, and knew math when she saw it.
And the most important part: she admitted she was wrong and that it’s fine
This is the part where Republicans and have the biggest problems with, as in the face pf evidence they usually just double down and that’s it.
I hope not people are like that. I have a coworker insists Harry Potter is “Satan”. She has never read it watch a single book or movie.
I bet she’d like it if you told her it was racist and anti-trans…
Might not be Satan, but it’s J.K.Rowling, which is way worse…
I always laugh at these people. I’m paraphrasing, but in the 7th book Harry essentially tells Voldemort, “I died for them, you can’t touch them.”
This is of course mirroring the fact that his own parents had died to protect him from Voldemort in the first place, but it’s also very much symbolic of the central Christian concept of Christ dying to save sinners. Harry is very much a Christ-figure in the end, forgiving those who had been his enemies and even pitying Voldemort himself. It’s not quite as blatant as C.S. Lewis and his, “If people don’t realize the lion is Jesus I’m going to have an aneurysm,” but it’s still obvious.
People who say stuff like this is satanic live in such a pitifully small world. I feel sorry for them.
I knew a guy who got into d&d in middle school and it drastically improved his grades.
The fact is that gaming is reading, writing, math, make believe, structured socializing, and sometimes history and sometimes art. It’s exactly like school, except fun.
I learned a lot of English by playing Runescape.
My son taught himself English by setting Minecraft to English. Once he mastered that, he set it to Pirate.
Except you learned british English, not freedom English
He who is not free needs to be British to become free 🦅
So, he learned what most English speakers learn.
Most people that think things are Satanic are woefully ill informed about the subject.
I would go so far as to say all of them. The whole idea of Satan is ridiculous, it’s “The Boogeyman” for adults.
Well some adults are also just plain stupid.
Oh I agree, but I leave a little room for people’s religions even if I think it’s all bullshit.
This is my first time seeing another person using monospace font for social media in the wild. I’ve changed my phone’s system font to Fira Code to make almost everything monospace.
Why. Legibility?
I use comic sans some people just want to watch the world burn.
sorry but it’s either that she didn’t “buy fully into ‘IT’S SATANISM’” or this entire post is made up.
people who buy fully into it don’t allow a test run. if it did g happen she was more likely concerned it might be some cultist shit but was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt and she doesn’t deserve to be described as “bought fully into it”.
That is what I did after years of playing.
So was it better or worse than satanism?
Having experienced math, I’d choose satanism for sure.
My husband’s parents apparently believed the satanic panic bullshit
My parents use to play dnd in high school. Mother was a custom classed healer/oracle. Dad was a very bad thief.
But math is satanism
No you’re thinking paleobiology.
People actually think D&D is Satanism? I thought it was a meme
It was totally a thing during the satanic panic. There’s an infamous Chick Tract about d&d that I was genuinely given by cult missionaries when I was a kid.
Don’t forget Tom Hanks first leading role in the movie Mazes and Monsters, originally titled Dungeons & Dragons, but forced to change it when TSR sued them.
This is parody, right ?
The Sithrak tracts are much more informative anyway
Here I go down the oglaf hole 😏 again
Chick tracks all feel like a parody of reality, the man was very disturbed, there’s a whole track about a seemingly normal couple and their seven year old daughter, and when missionaries come teach them about Jesus they ask if it’s wrong that they sexually abuse their daughter, after being told that it is in fact wrong, but luckily they can be totally forgiven through Jesus, they decide to be Christians and say the magic words that make you saved, then they promise their daughter to stop abusing her, and all of this is played like it’s really wonderful Jesus is here to save people who molest their kids for years from consequences.
Wtf
Sadly, no. It was quite real. I was given some while trick or treating as a kid.
https://m.imdb.com/title/tt3625970/ Dark Dungeons, the movie
In addition to what others have said, sadly the myth persists among some people. I have a good friend who I used to play Magic: The Gathering with. I had been playing for years before I met him (since 3rd edition) and had a pretty decent collection, and he invested a lot of money in cards in the next few years.
At one point I was moving away to a place where I didn’t know anyone and needed to travel light, so instead of selling my collection I gave them to him.
I ended up coming back to my home state and we became roommates. Then he became ‘born again’ and instead of giving me those cards back, he burnt them all.
I’m not really mad at the guy for it, he was doing what he thought was right, but I do regret giving him the cards in the first place.
Don’t even get started on back tracking of albums in the seventies…
It was a real moral panic in the 80s or 90s. To be fair, it’s one of the less deadly moral panics of the 90s. It got a lot of steam when a private detective was hired to find or investigate a troubled teen and found he had committed suicide, and he wrote a book about it and instead said he had become delusional after playing D&D, thought he was the fictional character of RPd and tried to do things his character could do, but killed him. Eventually enough people pointed out the absurdity of the story and people who knew the kid had grown up and made it very clear he committed suicide intentionally and was never delusional, the author then acknowledged he made up the story, but even more perplexing, claimed the teen met him before the suicide, he made it sounds like mere moments before, confessed to drug abuse, and said he didn’t want his parents to find out, so asked him kindly to make up a cover story for his actual actions and motives to protect his family from, or maybe just his mom. Anyway. A lot of people took this seriously, but if you’re even slightly aware of what tabletop rpgs are like is like claiming a high schooler who played too much soccer became delusional and thought he was a soccer ball, and kept trying to inflate himself until he died. I’m not saying it’s impossible, I’m just saying if that did happen, playing too much soccer wasn’t related to the delusional mental health disorder.
I ran my school’s D&D club in Highschool. At one point my Grandma came along to watch me and my Siblings while my parents were out of the house for a month and when i told her that i’d need picked up later on certain days for D&D club, she went off on this long rant about how ‘D&D is satanic’ and then something about how ‘Obama eats babies’. To this day i’m literally shocked she believes that junk.
Thought. In the 80s and perhaps still in early 90s.
Pearl-clutching “christians” used to be deathly afraid of anything with even slightly negative undertones. “Dungeons? Dragons? That’s the devil! Away Satan! Our children are making pacts with the devil!” Satan was historically represented by a dragon in Christian mythology.
Christianity as a religion encourages fear and paranoia. None of this is accidental.
Don’t forget the woman whose son committed suicide so she created an anti-D&D group called Bothered About Dungeons and Dragons. Her group described D&D as “a fantasy role-playing game which uses demonology, witchcraft, voodoo, murder, rape, blasphemy, suicide, assassination, insanity, sex perversion, homosexuality, prostitution, satanic type rituals, gambling, barbarism, cannibalism, sadism, desecration, demon summoning, necromantics, divination and other teachings.”
You know as a rule I try not to judge people’s actions when their mourning. No one thinks clearly when their mourning. There is a limit though and that woman found it years ago.
That she included homosexuality in that list really says a lot about her
Oh man, do you hsbg any idea how homophobic the entire world used to be? It’s actually pretty progressive and understanding she said ‘‘homosexuality’’ and not a slur.
She was religious and this is from the early 80s. It’s not even in the top ten most batshit things she said or wrote. From an early 80s Christian conservative standpoint homosexuality is basically just a more narrow category or sex perversion. She was also one of the big voices in the Satanic Panic in general and considered a subject matter expert, including writing things like interrogation guides for law enforcement.
Here’s a couple of examples of her lunacy:
THE WHO WHAT WHEN WHERE AND HOW OF TEEN SATANISM WHO 1. Adolescents from all walks of life. 2. Many from middle to upper middle class families 3. Intelligent Over or Under Achievers Creative/Curious Some are Rebellious Some have low self esteem and are loners Some children have been abused (physically or sexually) WHEN does this occur? It appears the ages most vulnerable are 11-17 WHERE? 1. Public places such as rock concerts, game clubs in communities or at school. 2. Private parties at a friend’s home. HOW? 1. Through Black Heavy Metal Music 2. Through fantasy role playing games like Dungeons & Dragons (R) 3. Obsession with movies, videos, which have occult themes 4. Collecting and reading/researching occult books 5. Involvement with “Satanic Cults”, through recruitment 6. Some are born into families who pratice “satanic cult rituals” TWO BASIC PRINCIPLES APPLY HERE “Law of Attraction” and the “Law of Invitation” WHAT can be expected? 1. Obsession with occult entertainment 2. Minor to major behavior disorders 3. Committing crimes and status offenses such as: A. Running away B. Graverobbing (such as bones) C. Breaking and entering to steal religious artifacts or sometimes stealing small items to prove loyalty to the group D. Defacing public or private property using “Satanic Graffetti” or related Graffetti E. Threatening to kill (self or others, self mutilation is very common) F. Aggression directed towards family, teachers and authority figures G. Contempt for organized religion H. Supremist attitudes I. Kidnapping or assistance in kidnapping J. Murder K. Suicide pacts among members of the group WHAT can we do? 1. Document all information relating to occult involvement (even if it does not appear relevant at the time) 2. Keep an open mind 3. Stay objective 4. Never assume that an individual is acting along until all other information surrounding the case and individual has been fully investigated. 5. If individual is involved in “satanic activity,” he/she will deny a great deal to protect other members of the group as well as the “satanic philosophy”. 6. Have a team approach, work with a therapist, a clergymen and other helping professionals. 7. Educate the community so that potential tragedies might be avoided.
Her group described D&D as “a fantasy role-playing game which uses demonology, witchcraft, voodoo, murder, rape, blasphemy, suicide, assassination, insanity, sex perversion, homosexuality, prostitution, satanic type rituals, gambling, barbarism, cannibalism, sadism, desecration, demon summoning, necromantics, divination and other teachings.”
checks notes so… the same as the bible?
I think the Bible fails on the role-playing game front and I don’t remember any voodoo, but otherwise yeah?
No no, there’s a lot of make believe power sets you can pretend to have in there.
Pearl-clutching “christians” used to be deathly afraid of anything
Used to be? Harry Potter was 30 years after DnD started and you had jesus jizzers freaking the fuck out about witchcraft. Nowadays some of them believe democrats are literal demons from biblical hell bringing about the end times.
Can’t fix stupid.
She may buy into hype but still thinks for herself
Good point, actually. Seems like these days, a lot of people wouldn’t change their opinion after seeing what this grandma saw.
There are 2 sorts of ignorance. Incidental and willful. Incidental can be fixed easily, with more information. Willful only look to support their pre-decided views, and so are far harder to change.
Before the internet became a big thing, both were common on topics. We were forced to rely on what we were told. This lead to a lot of incidental ignorance. The internet made it easy to fix this.
The end result is the ratio has changed. It used to be, say 80% incidental, and 20% willful. Now 90% of the incidental is mostly fixed. So it’s 29% incidental, 71% willful. And so looks a lot worse to casual observation.
The Grandma seems the incidental type. Going to a game gave her the information to update her views.
Also to note, the numbers here were pulled from my arse for example purposes only. Actual ratios may vary.
These days, some people wouldn’t even attempt to see the game with their own eyes and completely makes up their mind based on one FB post.
The conspiracy and accusations must always go deeper.
I’m also surprised it ended with the grandma realizing it was just math, because it could have just as easily ended with her thinking that they’re obviously hiding what the real game is about, and how bad it must be be that they’d go to such great lengths to cover it up.
I have to assume having a good, strong relationship with her grandchild must also be a contributing factor. If D&D remained something only anonymous ne’er-do-wells do, it’d be easy to continue buying into the satanic panic. But someone you know and trust to be responsible telling you it’s no big deal might make it a bit easier to accept.
D&D players aren’t satanists. They’re much worse. They’re math addicts.
A friend calls it “narrative gambling”, because eventually we’re all throwing dice and hoping it doesn’t “ruin” us.
You don’t even need the dice! I was definitely gambling last session when I attuned to a prosthetic eye filled with the trapped souls of everyone that’s ever used it. It gives me 60 feet of Truesight though!
I mean, it’s not entirely wrong, but saying anything involving dice and risk is gambling, thus meaning it contains the same addictive and problematic features that gambling does, is incredibly simplistic and superficial.
It’s like saying carrots and coke is the same thing because both contain sugar.
How dare you!
<I use an attack of opportunity and I throw my carrot-and-coke cocktail to Squaresinger’s face>
At least not coke and buthane. That would have been worse.
At least not coke and buthane.
Not since the accident…
Speaking as a Satanist studying computational fluid dynamics…
Need a DM?
I would love this so much.
I’ve never played any non-PC RPG though.
Exactly why I dislike D&D, it’s more about combat and math. I prefer systems that are less math heavy and more narrative/roleplay focused.
You should check out GURPS. Its a simpler system with universal campaigns (modern, fantasy, mech, dimension hopping, steampunk). The system is super easy. You start with 100 points to make your character. You can spend them on stats, skills, spells, and perks. You can even gain more points by taking quirks.
You roll 3d6 for everything. Your goal is to get under your skill number. Fireball of 13 needs to roll under 13. If its raining or something, your GM can choose to put a -4 on that. So now you need to roll under 9. Just simple addition and subtraction, but it works really well.
Ooo, that sounds awesome! Thank you for sharing!
I’m going to second the other commenter in my enthusiasm for GURPS, but for the opposite reason.
Gurps has the problem of being a universal role-playing system, like Fate, which means session zero includes a long sit-down with your DM about what precisely we will be doing in this game and what mechanics we will be using to create the desired experience. You then fill out the appropriate forms in triplicate to create your character. Usually, your DM makes a template for you to use like a shopping list, but the rulebook assumes you are digging through the first 300-page volume selecting your abilities and skills over the course of a day.
Then, once you start playing, you never have to look at the rulebook again. All the rules you will be using were written (by you) on your character sheet. You roll the dice, see if you managed to roll under your target numbers, and then either succeed or fail. The DM barely has to adjudicate anything.
includes a long sit-down with your DM about what precisely we will be doing in this game and what mechanics we will be using to create the desired experience. You then fill out the appropriate forms in triplicate to create your character. Usually, your DM makes a template for you to use like a shopping list, but the rulebook assumes you are digging through the first 300-page volume selecting your abilities and skills over the course of a day.
Holy shit. This first bit sounds like a bureaucracy simulator.
Probably the only game to be made better by chatgpt
Yep! That’s the entire appeal of the system! And I want to make absolutely sure that anyone picking up the game knows that they are getting into, because I am well aware that the fact this is my favorite game system says a lot about me as a person
I understand what you are saying and I can see why that could be interesting to some.
I myself prefer to go the exact opposite route. I like Mini6 a lot. It’s 2 pages of actual rules and a few more with example scenarios, spells, items, skills and enemies. The whole thing is like 30 pages IIRC.
And even better: Dread. You can explain the rules in 2 minutes.
I bought the Fate Accelerated Edition because it sounded fun but I’ve literally not found any published adventures. I’ve found campaign settings, yeah, but nothing explaining what an easy encounter should look like, how to structure an adventure, nothing.
Fate seems fun so I’m ready to be proved wrong.
Sorry that this is off-topic… but your avatar hit me in the feels. I can’t explain fully. When I first became aware as a kid in school, like… first conscious memorized thoughts, I was staring at the Netscape Navigator loading animation. Now every time I see it there’s this feeling. Like super nostalgic serotonin and dopamine running through my veins.
Such a small thing, but I almost cry every time I see it.
That’s because you need to wake up, eye dust! You need to break out of the simulation! It’s still 1999 in here!
Just kidding lol. But thank you for sharing. I know the feeling you’re talking about, just like a tidal wave of nostalgia that is utterly devastating. I can’t think of anything off the top of my head that gives me that feeling, but I’ve felt it.
Lol! Well, you’re probably not wrong.
Yeah, its just a blast of feelings, hard to describe. Shooting stars can usually do it to me. Whether they’re in a game or in real life.
I used to sit in old WoW waaaay back in the day and watch the shooting stars in Arathi Highlands. That and Winterspring were my favorite areas.
Oh wow, it sounds so much simpler and easier. Thanks for expanding on the other person’s point!
I just wanted to make sure you understood that the complexity is loaded all at the front, during session 0. Its actually a good deal more complex, but you get to pick and choose what kinds of complexity you want and deal with it at character creation.
Also, their supplemental books really helped me grow as a writer and gamemaster. Most of them tackle a genre and explore it thoroughly.
Oh, thanks! We really appreciate that!
That’s great! 🙂
Thanks for this. Its been quite a while since I’ve played, so I was going off of fuzzy memory. I do still have all the books, but haven’t opened them in a long time.
That’s exactly it. You choose what you want your character to do and be within the GM’s world type. Then you have one or two sessions really setting everything up for world, characters, story, progression, etc. After that you’re done with the hard part. Heck, even the GM is done with it. They may need to reference material occasionally, but the game almost plays itself.
It’s much, much more casual and focuses more on story and narrative. Its like if Choose Your Own Adventure was a game, the rolls only being there to add flavor and excitement to your adventures.
Black Math.
And it doesn’t even add up to the number of the beast!
Could you imagine doing 666 damage in one turn? I’d be riding that high for weeks.
Weeks? More like decades.
And then, In nomine satanis/Magna Veritasuse a D666
Knock #2 by the merry mushmen has a set of actual d666 tables for generating a pact with a devil.
I am assuming this was the 2.5ed? THAC0 calculations was treated as an arcane knowledge that only DMs had access to
Gygax really overcomplicated 2.5
