US Senator Lindsay Graham has just tweeted an article titled “Greta Thunberg sets sail with Gaza flotilla that aims to break Israeli naval blockade,” adding the comment, “Hope Greta and her friends can swim!”
Australian Zionist think tanker Arsen Ostrovsky somehow outdid Graham, tweeting “Oh look, the little jihadi Greta Thunberg is trying to get into Gaza, to show solidarity with Hamas. It would be so sad if something were to happen to her flotilla…”
There’s not a lot that can shock me about Israel and its supporters these days. But if you’d traveled back in time a few years ago it would be hard to explain to someone how we got to a timeline that includes Israel supporters openly advocating the assassination of Greta Thunberg.
The only sources that you’ve provided that claim genocide are opinion pieces, and none supply data that meets the UN defintion of Genocide, statements of genocidal intent and so on, without that any invasion of a sovereign country that includes mass civilian deaths is a genocide including the west’s invasions of Muslim majority countries in the past decades
My view is that state actions have to meet the UN defintion to be a genocide, if yours is looser and any killing of civilians of a certain ethnicity(if if committed by those of the same ethnicity) is a genocide in your eyes then that is a defensible position I respect, but do you apply the standard equally? i.e if you think Russia’s actions in Ukranine constitute a genocide, then you must also think the western collation’s(which included the US, UK, Ukraine and many other western countries) actions in Afghanistan and Iraq also constitute a genocide yes?
Are you aware that a third of Ukrainians are russian first language, and an even higher amount have some degree of Russian ancestry
This is the minority that was persecuted by the far right after the US backed maidan coup overthrew Ukranines’s democraticly elected government, including torture and the shelling of civilian infrastructure and residential areas by neo nazi such as Azov, tornado etc battalions this let to formation of self defence groups thst became the ‘Russian backed sepratists’ this conflict is more nuanced than portrayed in western corperate media, throwing hundreds of thousands more Ukrainians into the meat grinder for the benefit of the west does not infact benefit ukranie and the working people there, the opposite is the case,
So if we use your defintion both sides are guilty of a genocide(which is why I don’t find the loose defintion useful and why the UN sets out specific conditions to be meet)
Russia is abducting Ukrainian children to force them to become culturally Russian. That’s cultural genocide. Also, there’s the constant bombardment of residential areas including especially medical and cultural institutions including on a children’s hospital. They’ve also been cutting off the civilian population from electricity, water, heating, communications etc.
These all parallel the start of Israel’s genocide in Gaza.
The opinion pieces I provide are from include ones from actual lawyers and scholars, not just random people and are certainly worth more than yours.
1/3 of Ukraine is culturally and ethnically Russian concentrated in the east of the country aka where the conflict is taking place, regardless the transfer of children while constituting a war crime does not constitute a genocide as the ICC warrant against Putin demonstrates
I’d also argue the actions of Ukraine in persecuting the ethnically and culturally Russian minority, which besides the torture and killing includes destruction of statues and so on of russians and their removal from the states official histories, and the banning their language in education also constitute a cultural genocide by those standards.
And you didn’t answer my question, if Russia actions in Ukraine constitute a genocide by your standards, do the actions of the western collation in central asia and the middle east(which include ‘adoption’ of orphaned children by military members) also constitute one?
By your logic, if France invaded Belgium and abducted Waloon kids to make them grow up to be Frenchmen, it wouldn’t be genocide as Waloons already speak French.
You also haven’t addressed Russia targeting civilian areas in Ukraine and destroying their infrastructure including hospitals.
When did Ukraine torture and kill ethnic Russians for being ethnic Russians? Plus removing Lenin statues, he was a dictator.
Whether the West’s actions in Afghanistan or Iraq constitute a genocide or not has no bearing on whether Russia’s actions are a genocide or not. I have no interest in defending these actions.
Yes it wouldn’t be a genocide, it would be a warcrime regardless of what language either speak
I was bringing to the ethnicity of a third of Ukrainians as they have been persecuted by ukranian state, if russia actions constitute a cultural genocide then Ukraines actions agaiant this ethnicity minority certainly constitute one as well
And you haven’t addressed thw Ukranian state and it’s neither nazi battalions targeting russian majority civilian areas in the Donbass
report on torture carried out by the ukranian state and it’s security services by the UN organisation for cooperation in Europe https://www.osce.org/files/f/documents/e/7/233896.pdf
Right so you admit to applying a double standard? Russia actions in Ukraine constitute a genocide in your eyes, bur the same actions increased in severity by the western collation do not? mmm I wonder why you hold a double standard here? white could possibly be the difference
“Yes it wouldn’t be a genocide”
Cultural genocide is genocide. Another example is the Uyghur genocide which you probably deny too.
Citation needed. What legal documents codify it?
Neither the UN, nor your empire’s leadership believes that such a genocide has ever happened. This is just another case of ‘Iraq has WMDs’ that you eagerly buy because designated enemies of your empire are lying untermenschen, apparently.
I’m going by UN and ICC defintions, removal of children from war zones is a war crime but not genocide, read Putins warrant at some point he’s charged with one but not the other
I’m not sure what defintion you’re using beyond ‘goverment I don’t like does bad thinks so that’s genocide’
And again how can you condemn Russia’s ‘genocide’ in Ukraine, but not condemn the western collation’s(US, UK, Ukraine etc) same and more severe actions in its invasions and occupations of sovereign countries in the last few decades? why are only white victims worthy of your sympathy? your refusal to condemn that combined with your white washing of nazis makes your ideological position clear yo anyone reading this exchange
I agree that CCP has persecuted the Muslim minority in Xinjang and i condemn it, but I also recognise that the west as committed far more severe human rights abuses agaisnt Muslims domestically and abroad but I’m guessing you don’t condemn that cultural and actual genocide? why?
and yes the argument can be made that there has been cultural genocide, UN investigations have shown no evidence of actual genocide i.e mass killings in Xinjang, statementsof genocidal intent etc
Unlike the actions of the west in Iraq and Afghanistan, dont you think it strange that the Xinjang cultural genocide is constantly derided in western corperate press and by those who’s worldview is shaped exclusively by it like yourself, whereas the cultural and actual genocide being committed by the west isnt?
Can’t you see the fact that you condemn China’s human rights abuses but not the wests cultural and actual genocide show your concern to motivate by cynical politics rather than actual empathy for religious and ethnic minorities?
I do condemn Western human rights abused and invasions. You are bringing them up to distract from Russia’s crimes and I will not stand for that.
The UN and ICC definitions are incomplete. I use the definition of the person who originally coined the term.
No I’m pointing out that you are a hypocrite: if by your standards russia’s actions in Ukraine are a genocide, then the worse actions committed by the western colation in central Asia and the middle east also meet and far exceed these same standards, do you condemn all these genocides, yes or no?
“Cultural genocide” is some bullshit the US made up so they could accuse China of a genocide even though there’s nobody dying, try harder patriot
That wouldn’t meet the definition of genocide, no.
Haha. Imagine seriously using the word ‘dictator’. Also, Lenin and other Bolsheviks’ efforts massively improved living conditions of people in the former Russian Empire, including in Ukraine.
Also, imagine not having issues with Bandera, an enthusiastic nazi collaborator and Hitler’s pen pal.
You are literally trying to manufacture consent for deploying NATO weapons and bars near Russia to resubjugate it (or, rather, to resubjugate it further).
“That wouldn’t meet the definition of genocide, no.”
It literally does. Or do you suggest it would only be genocide if they abducted Flemish kids?
“Haha. Imagine seriously using the word ‘dictator’.”
So you are fine with dictatorship.
“Also, Lenin and other Bolsheviks’ efforts massively improved living conditions of people in the former Russian Empire, including in Ukraine.”
Doesn’t make dictatorship ok. Also, you are missing certain details such as Lysenkoism, forced internal population transfers, purges, the Gulag and the Holodomor.
“Also, imagine not having issues with Bandera, an enthusiastic nazi collaborator and Hitler’s pen pal.”
Maybe if Russia stopped threatening neighbouring countries, these countries would stop reaching towards fascist war criminals in their past for inspiration.
“You are literally trying to manufacture consent for deploying NATO weapons and bars near Russia to resubjugate it (or, rather, to resubjugate it further).”
Citation needed. Which NATO weapons? Which bars (I assume you mean bases?)? What evidence do you have that they want to subjugate Russia?
It literally does not. In your example, the children are not being killed, including by imposition of conditions calculated to bring about their destruction.
The word ‘dictatorship’ does not mean anything.
If you want to argue otherwise, please, provide a definition. If it isn’t just your own definition, then also provide a citation.
Well, the word ‘dictatorship’ doesn’t mean anything. You are always going to engage in goalpost movement whenever cornered.
Check the date of Lenin’s death, then check when Lysenko became relevant.
Also, pretty sure nobody is going to support Lysenko here. That was a mistake.
But hey, speaking of imposing weird bans on scientists, I’m going to remind you how your empire has been banning Russian scientists and engineers. You seem to be fine with that.
Your empire engaging in a forced population transfer has been highly publicised for the past one and a half years or so. (Mind you, Ukraine has provided assistance with that, as well.) You seem to be very fine with that.
Not well informed enough about that, but I doubt that you are, either. Still not nearly as bad as what your empire was doing at the time, and not as bad as what it has been doing.
And that was worse than your prisons why, exactly?
Haha.
Historians who specialise on the famine disagree with you. There was no intention there, and the USSR both took effort to prevent it, and to stop it once it started.
Meanwhile, your empire has deliberately caused famines, including in Ireland and in India.
If you want to blame the USSR for all disasters happening on its territory, then, by applying the same standards to your empire, we can conclude that the USSR is much better in that regard.
Also, none of those things happened under Lenin. Literally check the dates.
Notably, the vast majority of Russia’s neighbours have been doing fine.
But also, good to know that you think that fascism is okay when you do it (if it was about being threatened, you wouldn’t even try calling Russia ‘fascist’, as NATO threatening Russia would give it justification by your own standards).
Like, for example, literally the ones being used by NATO’s proxy in this war.
I did mean ‘bases’. I blame gesture input.
I recommend you google ‘NATO military bases’ or ‘US military bases’ or ‘US military presence around the world’.
Literally what NATO has been doing to the rest of the world.
What evidence do you have for NATO not trying to do what it has been doing throughout its existence in this particular case by deploying weapons close to Russia’s most populated areas and committing terrorist attacks and after having destroyed Russia’s economy and killing millions of people in Russia in the 90s?
Imagine pretending that evacuating children from a war zone is ‘abduction’.
That’s literally what NATO and Ukraine have been doing, in addition to other attacks against civilians and other war crimes. In addition, you are fine with Ukraine invading both Iraq and Syria.
Literally done by Ukraine against Crimea.
They can and often do have rather silly opinions. Look at Lemkin.
“Imagine pretending that evacuating children from a war zone is ‘abduction’.”
Why aren’t they returning these children to their families?
“That’s literally what Ukraine have been doing”
Citation needed
“In addition, you are fine with Ukraine invading both Iraq and Syria.”
I must have missed the fanfiction in which Ukraine did that.
“Literally done by Ukraine against Crimea.”
Citation needed
“They can and often do have rather silly opinions.”
Still more trustworthy than an online weirdo defending a fascist regime.
Don’t have the time to respond in full currently, but
They literally are.
I can grant you that - they are more trustworthy than you, a weirdo who is defending a genocidally racist fascist regime.