Sad to see capitalist propaganda leaking in here. But remember the fundamentals my fellow workers.
Personally, I’m not a big fan of the “surplus value == theft” argument. At least not in every case.
The reason is that simply by being in the context of your employment, you can work more efficiently and produce more value than you could on your own. If your wage is between your ‘potential solo value’ and your ‘current value’, then the profit comes from the fact that you’re working in the context that your employer has provided.
This isn’t to say I’m against workers getting the full profit, but it’s not as bad as some people say it is.
produce more value than you could on your own
Sooo… more value that can be stolen by capitalists?
the context that your
employerfellow people doing all the actual work has provided.FTFY.
Your argument against "“surplus value = theft” is about as shit as it gets.
but it’s not as bad as some people say it is.
The only reason you can pretend that certain aspects of capitalism is “not as bad as some people say it is” is because of the fact that organized labor have spilt a lot of their own blood fighting to get it to the point of being “not as bad as some people say it is.”
Your employer provides nothing that isn’t earned by the value of the labor of its employees
True, but what would the employees’ labour be worth without the context of employment?
As an example of what I mean, I have a hobby similar to what I do for work (hobby: game dev, work: software dev), I can say for a fact that I am more productive at work. I can specialize more at work, can get second opinions, and I get free, realistic testing.
Still not saying wage labour is always good, just that there are cases where it’s not that bad. There are other things we should pick to be mad at.
I can specialize more at work, can get second opinions, and I get free, realistic testing.
All of those can exist without an employer skimming from the top, also none of it is free, as op mentioned in their previous comment - it’s all been paid for with money you made for them.
Show me where that has worked?
Many places. A good, quick example is a Worker Co-op, which is more stable, with higher rates of employee satisfaction, than Capitalist businesses. FOSS is another example, the site you’re using is a rejection of Capitalism, which ruined Reddit with ads and horribly unpopular yet uncontestable changes like the API bullshit.
A Worker coop is in fact a Capitalist business. They produce goods sold for a profit to return that as wages. FOSS only exists because the folks coding it are sharing what they made for their own benefit and only able to do so as they are otherwise gainfully employed. Thus Capitalism is the engine which allows FOSS to exist. Well done disproving your theory. That is indeed the first step to discovery.
A Worker coop is in fact a Capitalist business.
Bullcrap. A worker co-op can easily exist outside a capitalist context.
False, they front the non-labor costs.
…with capital they or their ancestors made off the backs of labor.
Great pretzel logic you’ve got going there.
Profit, rent, and private property are all forms of theft.
So no starting resources, no buildings, and no place to build a building if there were anyone with the means an intent. Brilliant, an even more disastrous utopia than the Libertarians. Well done.
No you idiot, the resources are all held collectively instead of individually. You are so stuck in your individualist world view that you seem to be entirely incapable of understanding the premise of collective ownership.
There are no resources as no one was paid to create them. Storage problem solved! Your intellect is truly inconceivable.
There are no resources as no one was paid to create them.
Good thing nobody has to pay you to breathe oxygen, eh?
Are you stupid to think that profit motive is the only reason anything gets done?
What?
So if I work and make a profit, that money is stolen from the value of my labour?
No, its just that you get to keep all of the profit.
When you work for a capitalist they pay you a portion of the profit your labor generated to cover your labor cost (food, shelter etc.) and keep the rest for themself.
It might be better understood in Marxist terms: you have the cost of your input materials and the cost of the labor-power needed to transform them. Subtract them from the output value of the labor and you get the surplus-value. The capitalist will keep the surplus-value the laborer created for themself and the laborer gets enough to cover the cost of maintaining their labor-power.
I get what ypu are saying, but I have a different oppinion on the subject, and it appears that I have found my way to the wrong community, so I won’t go into details here.
I wish you all the best!
That’s not how all of us here feel. Sorry to see you go.
Not everyone who wants better rights for workers is a Marxist; the horror.
