This community gets lots of negative attention, and for a very vocal group of people it becomes a focus of animosity
Carnivore is a tool - the people using this tool want to be healthy
Opportunities for common causes:
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- Whole foods - Single Ingredient foods - No Processed Foods
The Zero carb community as a whole focuses on single ingredient foods, without any processing.
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- Sustainably produced
We all live on spaceship earth, and that system needs to be maintained for our future and our children’s future. Any solution to health needs to be sustainable ecologically. That means using natures own biocycles and minimizing the need for industrial chemicals. i.e. crop rotation rather then mono-cropping, using ruminants to regenerate top soil
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- Locally sourced foods
Moving a special product around the globe via airplanes or ocean vessel simply is a waste of energy, time, and logistics. This should be minimized in the food supply, and any solution to health and sustainability shouldn’t use any imported food or ingredients. Food independence is critical for every community.
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- Ethically raised animals
Carnivores are aware that they are part of a complex biocycle that involves many levels of life and nature interacting. Sadly this means animals will die for food production (this is unavoidable regardless of food choice). Animals that live as close to their natural biocycle as possible are the healthiest for the food supply. Good carnivores who can afford it will try to find sources of ethically raised and harvested meat - animals that are eating their natural diet in as close to their natural environment as possible.
Industrial farming is bad, and needs reform.
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- Reduction of sugars in the diet
By virtue of being zero carb Carnivores avoid dietary sugars, but we do recognize how dangerous fructose and sucrose is in the general population (remember most of us are here to be healthy). Many Carnivores recognize the benefits of ketogenic and low carb metabolism.
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- Progress not Perfection
For the most part the zero carb people I’ve met are very welcoming, non-judgmental, and don’t prosecute people for not being perfect. I think we all have histories of struggling, and the understanding and empathy we can provide is the best thing we can do for each other (including our non-zero-carb friends).
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- The need for self-experimentation
Seeing is believing, encouraging people to try their different theories and diets and seeing their own results is the only way to resolve “debates”. Whatever the “philosophy” is it should be tested, and if its not working it needs debugging, or given up on.
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- Avoiding industrial processed oils
Along the philosophy of avoiding processed foods, and foods from plants, we have double strikes against most of the industrial seed oils. While there is open debate and unclear literature on the harm of these oils, there is almost no downside to removing them from a diet, and it just becomes another uncontrolled variable that could be impacting people’s results. This is just KISS
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- Monitor your progress, only you are responsible for you
Everyone should record their biometrics periodically, especially if they are experimenting with a diet. I think Carnivore’s by virtue of trying to be healthy are very likely to have a record of their biometrics going back years. This helps in the self-experimentation of the dietary adventure. In addition to the normal metrics
- height
- weight
- muscle mass
- blood pressure
- resting heart rate
- lipid panels
- hba1c
people should include a daily feeling journal, how much energy they had, any small aches or issues, just so they can look back and see their mood changing over time and make connections with diet.
While we may not agree on most things, or even many things, there should be some philosophical overlap so that our communities could be on nodding terms with each other.
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Good carnivores who can afford it will try to find sources of ethically raised and harvested meat
How do you ethically “harvest” meat? And why are you using a plant term for this?
I don’t know what the plant term is here, harvested?
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/harvest
The product or result of any exertion or course of action; reward or consequences.
I’ve just generally seen harvest as the results of labor or a process. I was using harvested here as a indirect term to speak of the slaughter of the animal.
Ethical Meat: Raised in as near its natural environment as possible, on its natural diet, geographically local to the consumer.
Ethical Harvesting: As human as possible, with as little stress as possible, as quick as possible.
Can you describe how you humanely kill an animal?
https://www.avma.org/sites/default/files/2024-09/Humane-Slaughter-Guidelines-2024.pdf
These Guidelines acknowledge that a humane approach to the slaughter of any animal is warranted, justifiable, and expected by society. The overall goal should be to minimize or eliminate anxiety, pain, and distress prior to loss of consciousness.
the overall goal of humane slaughter should be to observe the best possible standards, practices, and techniques of animal welfare, including to minimize, as much as possible, injury, anxiety, pain, and distress prior to loss of consciousness, resulting in a swift end.17,18 Therefore, both the induction of unconsciousness and handling prior to slaughter must be considered.
If you go to page 52 you can see the options for cattle dispatch in technical detail.
I meant like the steps. Would you use a knife or a gun or?
The text you quote seems to misuse “humane” which means showing compassion. How do you compassionately kill an animal that doesn’t want to die? Is there some specific step that makes it compassionate? Or do you only kill the ones that are sick and dying?
Page 52 has all the steps you want in extreme detail.
Humane is terminating the animal with a minimization of anxiety, fear, and pain while expediting unconsciousness as quickly as possible. If you disagree on the definition of humane then I don’t think our conversation is going to be very productive.
Within the context of a animal being harvested, the best way to conduct the slaughter would be… whatever you want to call that.
Or if you prefer something less food based, if you come upon a animal in pain on the side of the road, the best way to ease its passing, the humane way.
Page 52 has all the steps you want in extreme detail.
I was asking what you personally think. (Repeatedly)
Linking to guidelines is such an “industry spokesperson” way of talking. I was hoping to have a bit more friendly/informal conversation.
Personally? To humanely terminate a cow, I’d use a captive bolt. Quick, low error rate.
Given the dearth of real nutritional science in the literature - I would stereotype carnivores in the “Ok Prove it” camp… Whatever the theory is, lets collect some data and see if it works.
Personally I know I’m wrong! I just don’t which part of my philosophy is wrong, or which nuance is missing. I’m open to change, I’m open to new data, I’m open to experiments. I’m trying to be a lifelong scientist. Trust… but verify
Carnivores are not some degenerate food addicts. Sure steak tastes good, but its not addictive. People don’t go out at 3am to find a steak, but they do that for sugar.