Residential utility customers have a legitimate expectation to preserve individual and behavioral privacy with regard to energy-related or water consumption data collected by the utility. Credible government reports and security experts have explained that there are privacy concerns that the granular data collected by smart meters will reveal the activities of people inside of a home by measuring their usage frequently over time. Furthermore, there is deep concern that inadequate cyber security measures surrounding the digital transmission of smart meter data will expose such data to misuse by authorized and unauthorized users of the data. Residential utility customers have currently only surrendered a privacy interest to the extent necessary to account for monthly billing by the utility, unless otherwise explicitly granted. Normally, only one energy or water usage measurement per month is necessary for the billing process.

  • cdf12345@lemmy.world
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    7 months ago

    There’s some real conspiracy theory stuff going on over at that site. I had coworkers that used to swear that smart meters put off more radiation than cell phone towers and were all going to die of cancer.

    This was all pre covid and I really haven’t heard anything about it from him since. Probably because there are juicier conspiracies to latch onto now.

    • archomrade [he/him]@midwest.socialOP
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      7 months ago

      I don’t know anything about that site, only that there is a real threat to privacy enabled by continuous power monitoring.

      I can’t speculate on radiation (i’m doubtful), but smart meters are absolutely a threat to personal privacy. Not to mention predatory, since continuous monitoring could be used for surge pricing.

    • bobs_monkey@lemm.ee
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      7 months ago

      Agreed. I remember my mom tripping out about these a while back, and so I did some digging. Precursor: I am but a humble resi/commercial/industrial electrician, not a lineman or POCO employee.

      There are a couple different configurations of these meters, typically one way broadcast RF and bidirectional RF. These use the same (or similar) frequencies as cellular networks. The bidirectional meter connects to a neighborhood gateway, which then transmits back to the POCO, while the broadcast meters (like my local utility) transmit a low range signal that’s picked up a truck with a receiver driving through a neighborhood to collect usage information (and doesn’t require the meter reader to walk up to each and every meter and physically read them). These are primarily used for efficiency and labor cost reduction. Obviously, the one way broadcast meters are not being read in real time, only the meters that are connected to the POCO through a network connection.

      These meters only read the overall usage in your home or business, not individual loads. They are situated in line on both phases (or all 3 in a commercial environment) between the utility feeders and your main breaker (or through a current transformer for mains that are too large for a regular meter, but it effectively does the same thing), measuring the current flowing through them, and, through Ohm’s law math (Watts=Volts*Current, Watts/1000=kW), reports usage. The only way to determine individual loads without extra equipment/monitors is through inference (which is actually pretty easy to due to the trained eye; for instance, when sizing generators, I’ll run a power monitor for a few days to a week to gather load data, and it’s fairly easy to surmise what spikes are what based on typical patterns and time of day). Some (read: very few) meters could do what’s called load shedding (aka turn things off) to reduce demand on the grid, but even the few meters that have this capability are only able to disconnect your home/business entirely. Some utilities are offering incentives to allow high-demand appliances (ie air conditioners) to be managed by the utility, but outside of using utility-connected thermostats, they would rely on a separate load management module that is directly connected to the appliances they wish to control (and only then, it would be a simple on/off; this is where thermostats are preferable, because the POCO can stop Suzie from cranking the AC down to 60 and running like a stockcar when its 115F out, and set it to 78 to bring overall demand lower while not cooking her like a holiday roast). It’s important to remember here that every single electrical appliance is physically connected to the grid via hardwire. There is no wireless electricity (for anything useful or practical pertaining to this conversation). It is possible to use powerline networking to control appliances, but that would require these appliances to be equipped with a communications module to respond. Electricity is pretty dumb; it flows wherever there’s a free path of travel.

      Also, there is no benefit to the POCO for turning any of your stuff on and off aside from load management for the wider grid. If anything, they’d prefer you using electricity that they can then charge you for.

      The only real concern I could see with these is a nefarious actor having access to your real-time usage to determine your habits. I guess the argument can be made that the POCO is spying on you, but I really don’t see a benefit to them knowing your usage aside from network/grid management. Perhaps a locality can use this data to determine if you’re growing weed, but other than that, in a world where all of our information is harvested anyway, it seems pretty inconsequential to me. if you’re that concerned, get a solar/battery system and turn off your main breaker.

      • archomrade [he/him]@midwest.socialOP
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        7 months ago

        The only real concern I could see with these is a nefarious actor having access to your real-time usage to determine your habits. I guess the argument can be made that the POCO is spying on you, but I really don’t see a benefit to them knowing your usage aside from network/grid management. Perhaps a locality can use this data to determine if you’re growing weed, but other than that, in a world where all of our information is harvested anyway, it seems pretty inconsequential to me. if you’re that concerned, get a solar/battery system and turn off your main breaker.

        That, and be able to adjust billing to surges.

        The secondary concern is reading the real-time usage by a nefarious actor, which has proven to be useful to ML applications for intuiting what types of activities are happening on the circuit. Obviously this pales in comparison to the potential abuse allowed by smart NICs and modems, but as a secondary measure or where a user is obscuring their network activity with encryption or similar, a real-time power reading would be helpful too.

        It’s just another vector that enables possible abuse, and one that you don’t have any choice over. My utility installed one of these on my house this year and we were not given any choice.

        • bobs_monkey@lemm.ee
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          7 months ago

          It’s important to remember that POCOs are highly regulated, and they’re not allowed to frivolously charge whatever they feel like, even in high demand conditions (probably state-dependent, but that’s at least the case here in CA).

          ML applications
          What do you mean by that?

          And I see where you’re coming from. At this point in the world, where just about every data point about a person/household is tabulated and used in ways to coerce you to spend more money, I just feel like this is low on the priority scale. The utilities’ motivation for smart meters is mostly labor cost reduction (meter readers). The remainder is real time grid load monitoring and statistics that better enables them to manage surge generation to keep costs down. This comes from a family friend that’s a higher up in SoCal Edison. They legit don’t care if someone is using an industrial grade sex machine or growing weed (though the municipality might). The biggest issue I can see with this, like anything else and as you alluded to, is data security/privacy.