GUYS. Linux is stupid because there’s no way to get LEGO Star Wars Skywalker Saga NPC Spawner mod to work. Maybe it fails because there isn’t a way to get DirectX SDK installed in protontricks but some mods work without this anyway. I’m going to go back to Windows Vista as GOD intended. Or maybe Windows Longhorn.
Thanks in advance.
I just did a fresh install of windows 11 last week, after my attempt to switch to Plasma on
DebianFedora did not go very well. While it’s absolutely true that some de-bloating must be done right after install, it took me like 15 minutes. I spent at least that long just finding the three different goddamn places I had to go to change the wallpaper in Plasma.*Edit: wrong flavor of linux
The problem is you used Debian which is missing bug fixes for KDE, and is on a frankly ancient 5.27 - I have had nothing but an awesome experience on KDE 6, with both VRR, and HDR, working under Wayland.
Recommend trying a rolling release
Whoops, I was actually using Fedora. I had to go check the kde website, as that is where I got it from and thought it would be weird if they recommended something so out of date.
Unironically, I find Arch easier to use than Debian
With the CLI guided install the barrier to entry is also super low now. The only thing I’m still battling is GPU video acceleration with Firefox.
Sunk
Cost
FallacyLearning Linux is nothing. Most people will never need anything outside of the GUI. There are distros that are very close to Windows in the GUI.
Oh well. Same people think switching to a Mac will take effort.
Thing is the people that never needed Windows, also didn’t really need a PC…
Gamers seem to be an exception, and while WINE/Proton are good, they’re not infallible. I can’t even get WINE running unless it’s running as root, which I don’t really want to do, and it took a lot of faff to get it to even do that. Wasn’t even anything complex, just a basic Win32 app I’d done as a test.
while WINE/Proton are good, they’re not infallible.
Just finished the latest trendy AAA game (Clair Obscur) thanks to Proton and Steam… 45hrs of (amazing) gaming and I didn’t tinker with a single option.
I’ve installed Fedora workstation the other week and it came with some apps like NPP that ran in wine by default for those that are transitioning away from Windows.
Yeah, it would be nice if Ubuntu just ran it out of the box as well.
So many things are great and just work and honestly just surprise you with how painless they are, and then you hit the snags, and then you’re in a world of trying to run things gathered from various sources, only to find that doesn’t work in your distro, only worked in 2016, or requires a package that isn’t obviously named from the command you’re trying to run.
I’m still not sold on snaps either. I finally got Firefox to see my integrated N150 “GPU”, but I’ve no idea how to make it use it for video decoding. I’ve no idea if the Snap version even supports that.
I’m surprised at how clunky it gets when at 100% CPU as well. Even the mouse lags. Maybe there’s a way to save a little bit of resources for user tasks, but I’ve no idea what that would be.
I am a happy Debian user, but TBH, it doesn’t take too much longer than 2 hours with Chris Titus Tech’s
winutil.If you know the right tool for the task, very few things take time. IMHO what’s more problematic is that with enshitification you’re swimming upstream. Sure as long as the maintainer finds the right trick, you can postpone indefinitely bad “surprises” but ultimately, why do so when proper alternatives more aligned with your Worldview exist?
I am considering moving off windows but am extremely not tech-savvy. Is there a good place for me to start?
Give CachyOS a shot
Sure, here are instructions for getting Linux Mint running: https://www.linuxmint.com/download.php
These instructions are for creating a USB flash drive that functions as both a live environment or an installer. If you don’t want to install it yet, this allows you to try it out while booting just from the flash drive, without modifying your hard drive at all.
extremely not tech-savvy
You managed to make an account and post on Lemmy so you’re probably underestimated your technical knowledge. That being said IMHO it’s best to first list what software you use then find alternatives that work on Linux. Once that’s done then yes sure try whatever distribution you want.
Most of my machines are Linux, and I can say the desktop experience still doesn’t match up with Windows. And there’s still so many third party tools that are Windows exclusive.
I would love to be able to shut down every Windows machine I have for good, and I’ve tried, but there are simply many things that still require Windows. Stop gaslighting people, and acting like they’re staying by choice.
If all you need is web based stuff, why even go to Linux? That’s overkill. Just use a tablet.
I mostly just game and browse the Internet and my daily driver is Linux. I have not come across anything that I needed Windows for so far, in a year and a half of not using Linux. There may be some games I was vaguely interested in that don’t run easily on Linux, but day to day tasks, 3d printing/slicing software, basic image editing software, browsers, coding IDEs, all work native on Linux.
Sure, if there is a specific software that you really want to use, maybe that specific software isn’t available on Linux. But one individual running into multiple things that only run on Windows sounds like it is a fairly specific use case. At best, someone might need to use an alternative program. At worst, maybe that person needs to keep a windows environment around. But that doesn’t seem like the case for the majority of people.
The problem with this pro-Linux argument, that only specific use-cases need Windows, is that also now applies to Linux. Probably 90% of people can do everything they need to with a tablet or phone. Even your listed day to day tasks are fairly specialized.
I personally prefer to run my daily driver as a vm, so I can remote into from all of my frontends. I tried to tough it out with Linux for over a year like that, using multiple different remote solutions. Every single one felt like using a machine from the 90’s. Just not anywhere close to acceptable by today’s standards.
Thanks to the steam deck standardizing support, Linux is probably fine for most pc gamers. Doesn’t work for me, but I use some very specific third party tools and hardware peripherals for simulators.
My reply was more about special use cases not being a good excuse that Linux isn’t ready. You’re right, most stuff people can easily do on a tablet or a phone, and that same stuff works just as well on a Linux machine. So someone that wants to do that stuff, but wants a machine more powerful than a tablet, can run Linux without issues.
But a Linux machine can only handle most special use cases, while a Windows machine can handle all special use cases. If you’re going to have a machine set up for specialized needs, it might as well be Windows, unless you’re someone running multiple machines.
windows debloating brought me more issues than using Linux, if windows is truly that much of an ass then you might as well have it as an option in a dual boos setup where you use it only when necessary (preferably non-debloated so it doesn’t fuck itself when you need it)
I used to have a Linux/Win 11 dual boot.
After about 6 months I stopped using Windows altogether. After about a year I just wiped the drive and went 100% Linux because Windows becomes a liability when it does BIOS updates you don’t want or need to ensure that it’s the only OS on the machine.
Linux hdr?
I’m really proud of the users in this community for not instantly ratioing comments that admit Linux has a learning curve and can be trouble prone with random bullshit especially with Nvidia.
Linux takes a long time to learn and is often quirky and strange in unexpected ways- life long Windows users already know how horrible Windows is and its quirky strange behaviors.
We stick with what we know. Unlearning behaviors is doubly hard when replacing them with something better.
It’s not that deep in terms of Linux, while I think it seriously is hard to learn for most it’s not so hard to take more than 1 month to use it just as good as you could with windows
I’m commenting because a single upvote doesnt adequately convey how much I agree with this comment.
Guys, I’m a Linux user, too, but can we stop having these fake arguments, please?
Many such cases
I never met anyone in real life who said the stuff shown in this meme. The handful of comments here are few and far between.
Spent two weeks debloating
The folks who care enough to debloat are either already on Linux or would spend maybe 1-2h to make a few fixes, before they get something they are okay with.
Just install Linux
For those who stick with Windows, it’s often more than “just switching”. They may need certain software, they may not be tech-savvy, they may be insecure about whether they could handle the occasional hiccup on a system that is completely new to them. All valid reasons for hesitation, and “just switch” is about as helpful as “just cheer up”.
Because learning Linux would take time.
I’ve used Linux for 15 years now, and I’m still constantly learning new things. Linux is so much more usable now than it ever was, and I also think more people should switch. But suggesting that you “learn Linux” in two weeks’ time is just silly and dishonest IMO.
I wish we as a community could stop with this sense of superiority and actually acknowledge people’s humane struggles to help them make the move.
I wish we as a community could stop with this sense of superiority
Not possible in a Linux community. They have only three jokes:
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Fuck windows
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I’m so smart for using the superior software stack (and everybody is an idiot for not switching)
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and my personal favorite: constantly trying to trick people into using FOSS software by telling everybody they’re as good even in cases where they’re clearly not (bro please use GIMP it’s actually really good bro as soon as you understand its archaic 1998 user interface it’s just as good as photoshop bro please)
I just wish Linux memes were more about Linux than they are about Windows.
and my personal favorite: constantly trying to trick people into using FOSS software by telling everybody they’re as good even in cases where they’re clearly not (bro please use GIMP it’s actually really good bro as soon as you understand its archaic 1998 user interface it’s just as good as photoshop bro please)
This. So this.
But coming from a position of nativity, it’s even almost understandable. For someone with a software development background, Linux is easily on-par with Windows and for many stacks even a lot better. There are a few cool pieces of software that don’t exist under Linux (e.g. Sourcetree) but there are decent replacements that are maybe a little bit less convenient.
So if you are a software developer and a very light user of stuff like Office, graphics/audio/video editing and similar stuff, you might actually believe that the FOSS alternatives in these areas are also decently good enough.
I mean, for me GIMP and LibreOffice are totally good enough, because I do next to nothing with these tools, and for the one children’s birthday party per year that I make, GIMP and LibreOffice are totally enough.
The actual hubris here is to think that my noob-level experience with these tools allows me to judge whether these tools are good enough for professional use.
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I hear you. I have 3 machines: my main rig, a light laptop and a server. The main rig is on Windows 10 LTSC and the server is on Linux (goes without saying).
When I bought the laptop I decided to use it only with Linux as a way to squeeze it’s resources but also as a way to figure it how realistic it would be to use Linux exclusively. After starting on Mint and hopping to Arch I ended up on Debian and I’m quite satisfied with it. But I also realized it would never work on my main rig. Lots of stuff and software would just not work the same way. Would it be usable, yes. But it would be mostly workarounds instead of the perfect setup I have built.
Linux will definitely get there. It’s improving fast. But telling people that don’t know better to just switch only to find out half of what they did will now have to be done with workarounds and hassles is dishonest and does not help Linux at all. When Linux is perfect those people will already be burned and resist it needlessly.
I spent 1-2 hours debloating Windows and it turns out Windows update doesn’t work unless you turn back on the Windows firewall service.
I forgot how I disabled it in the first place, so I gave up and installed Linux
Why the hell would you even want to disable the firewall?
Do you like insecure devices? Do you also never update? Are you also still on Windows XP or something?
Why the hell would you even want to disable the firewall?
I’m behind a firewall on my router, why the hell do I want to enable it?
To be fair power users tend to be terrible with social skills. But you are right that this is essentially just linux users bragging that they learned something difficult. Power users also tend to be awful teachers so that might be part of the frustration on both sides.
If it takes you 2 weeks to uninstall some crap and flick some settings, you better switch away from Windows. But I doubt Linux will be any different.
Maybe ChromeOS would be a better fit?
Actually, stop telling people to “learn” linux. Linux is either supposed to be easily navigable without the Command Line, or it’s not the right thing for most people.
Either dumb it down, or don’t expect people to learn it.
You’re 100% right.
Linux Mint is not hard to learn at all, it’s almost identical to windows.
The problem is the random ass shit you have to debug that the average user will not do and conclude Linux sucks.
IE if you have an Nvidia card, which shit loads of people do, you will struggle with bullshit just having two monitors…
If you have Logitech devices, which shit load of people do, you won’t have drivers and you’ll have to fuck around dealing with shit.
In addition to other quirky shit that happens on Linux some not really Linux fault and some just is.
That said one of the good things about chat gtp / ai is that they are actually really helpful at debugging Linux.
So yea… Linux isn’t just plug and play, the way windows is. Windows steals your data and has shit loads of bloat but just like cellphones the average person doesn’t give a shit nor does he understand how / why windows is awful.
Logitech mouse pairs just fine for me
Yeah I have exclusively Logitech mice. That was a weird one lol. Also the nvidia stuff is pretty good these days. But I’d still buy a radeon if you’re planning on using Linux.
I’ve never had an issue with Logo-tech or my dual monitor nvidia setup and I disrro hop quite regularly
For anyone needing to manage Logitech devices under Linux, try Solar
Got me sorted recently when I wanted to pair a dongle with a different mouse than it came with.
Oh, is that the issue? Using a different dongle than the one it came with? That would explain why mine was just plug and play.
And if all else fails, my mouse also has bluetooth.Yeah. When you buy a Logitech mouse that comes with a dongle in the same package, you don’t need to do anything, just plug it in.
In my case though, I bought a replacement dongle for a mouse that was missing one, and was able to use Solarr to pair it up.
Solaar does the other Logitech-specific stuff you need too, like macros, scroll wheel ratcheting, and all that.
Been switching monitors with Nvdidia card last few years (edit: yeah, laptop. So two monitors setup), every single one is plug and play. What am I doing wrong?
Based as fuck and refreshing for someone to admit this on here
Edit: spoke too soon
Depends what you want to do. I have installed Linux for some people and they were perfectly happy with it and never touched the command line. While for me barely a day goes by using Linux that I don’t touch the command line for something.
I don’t get what you should “learn”
Learning the difference between all the different distros to find the one that fits your needs for starters.
- find one that fits your needs
- learning the difference between all distros
Do I need to spell the error here?
This.
When switching to Android/iOS/ChromeOS/… people also aren’t expected to “learn” that OS.
Of course! I’ll just magically re-learn keyboard usage on Mac and how its file system is structured, all automatically on purchase, right?
Unless you are a power usage, the file system structure doesn’t matter. You save your stuff into your user folder, done. If you need to install something, let the OS do it for you.
And “option” is just another word for “alt”. Memorizing the three keyboard shortcuts normal people use (copy, cut, paste) is a wildly different level of “learning” than learning concepts like what a repository is and having to configure kernel parameters to get sleep mode to work reliably.
oh, do we have something to disagree on. First things first: many “fucks” ahead
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that sleep mode that I rigorously disable the fuck off every time I re/install a system, right?
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file system, even without power usage: I install a notepad-like app on Android (think Sublime), create a file with notes on some topic, and want to send it via email to someone. Oops, where the fuck did that file go?
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keyboard is something I use daily, so now three (or more?) layers instead of two can be irritating. fair point would be that I never tried a Mac, so can’t speak specifically about this case, but all those Ctrl+Alt+fuck-how-many-more-letters? shortcuts in some apps do drive me nuts (that extends to web apps too)
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let’s add to this pile: fucking Android settings. Even with me being a software dev, I usually just go to Settings and use text search to find whatever setting I need at the moment, because it never is anywhere I look for it
“people also aren’t expected to learn that OS” my ass. people are just expected to put up with whatever bullshit these OSes come with. Works for some, does not work for others - but do you really want to be among fools glorifying this attitude?
file system, even without power usage: I install a notepad-like app on Android (think Sublime), create a file with notes on some topic, and want to send it via email to someone. Oops, where the fuck did that file go?
You are doing this like a power user. The correct way is to use the share button in your notepad app. No need to mess with files.
keyboard is something I use daily, so now three (or more?) layers instead of two can be irritating. fair point would be that I never tried a Mac, so can’t speak specifically about this case, but all those Ctrl+Alt+fuck-how-many-more-letters? shortcuts in some apps do drive me nuts (that extends to web apps too)
Again, power user. Most people don’t use keyboard shortcuts at all, apart from maybe copy/paste, but even there I mostly see people right clicking and selecting copy or paste.
let’s add to this pile: fucking Android settings. Even with me being a software dev, I usually just go to Settings and use text search to find whatever setting I need at the moment, because it never is anywhere I look for it
Again, power user. The search is exactly what you are supposed to use. The directory structure is mostly there for power users who aren’t searching for one single setting but want to go through each setting of a category to potentially modify every single setting possible in regards to one topic.
What you are doing is taking your pre-learned ways from one OS (probably Windows or Linux) and trying to use another OS as if it was that first one, while ignoring the much more intuitive ways to handle that new OS.
Edit: That’s also kinda understandable. If you are a power user, you can’t be not a power user, and of course you want to apply the skills you learned for a different OS, even if they don’t exactly work for the new OS. That’s natural, but it’s not a failing of the new OS.
The correct way is to use the share button in your notepad app
No, the share button never shows anything useful to me, while also showing a lot of crap like three identical sharing icons for Instagram. What the fuck is the difference, I care not - just don’t use the feature at all
Again, power user. Most people don’t use keyboard shortcuts at all…
First: and I never see people copy-pasting by mouse. So now then, power users must suffer, is that it? Second: so, anything more complicated than “scroll and watch” is now power usage? Niice. So now remind me, how Linux is such a monstrous hard-to-learn beast in this case?
Again, power user. The search is exactly what you are supposed to use. The directory structure
Flash news: directory structure and settings UI are different things. Also, directories are for power users, so portable software (as in copy-this-directory-to-your-computer-and-run-this file) is for power users? Wow, I’ve been power user since Windows 98! So… do I need to suffer or is Linux such a complicated beast?
What you are doing is taking your pre-learned ways from one OS (probably Windows or Linux) and trying to use another OS as if it was that first one, while ignoring the much more intuitive ways to handle that new OS.
Exactly the point. Original poster (edit: another commenter, this is just one of the threads) just takes his learned ways, then looks at Linux where they don’t work, and declares Linux is too hard because it needs to be learned. What a surprise, right?
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Actually, stop telling people to “deal with” Windows (okay, this one is pretty weak). Windows is either supposed to be easily navigable without going through a dozen of buttons-tabs-subwindows, ot it’s not the right thing for most people
Either dumb it down, or don’t expect people to use it
There’s known knowns, known unknowns, and unknown unknowns. The first requires a lot less brainpower than the last.
what aboot unknown knowns, those are my favorite
I remember people laughing about that Rumsfeld speech but I just feel like those people didn’t really get what he meant
It makes perfect sense.
