Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) shares his message to voters in the Uncommitted Movement who are considering not voting in the presidential race over the Biden administration's handling of Israel.
This is pure horseshit. Netanyahu has been stringing Biden along for half his career. Biden has willingly turned a blind eye to Israeli war crimes going back 30 years.
Trying to deflect decades of failed US middle east policy - policy that Biden helped construct first as Senator, then as VP, and finally as President - and blame it on a single phone call Trump made to egg Netanyahu on is dishonest to the point of denialism.
Their objective is to use genocide as a political wedge
We’re doing “Human Shields” discourse again. It’s the Palestinian American’s fault for not endorsing the genocide of their immediate friends and family.
It’s the Palestinian American’s fault for not endorsing the genocide of their immediate friends and family.
Voting isn’t a love letter, it’s a chess move. Biden, Harris and other establishment liberals absolutely deserve to be relentlessly mocked and criticized (and frankly indicted) for cheerleading Israel’s genocide, but aiding in the political victory of someone twice as genocidal as them, and who also intends to end democracy and target his political opponents would be a bad move.
The difference is you can win a game of chess. There is no winning with our two party oligarchy. Which candidate will give us universal healthcare? Which candidate will give us economic democracy by converting capitalist companies into worker co-ops or nationalizing critical industries? Which candidate will give us free college and the freedom to unionize without fearing for our careers? Neither of them? Cool. So either we vote for liberal corporate oligarchy or the fascist oligarchs will make us pay dearly for it. Either way we lose, but one is worse than the other. Our “democracy” is like holding a gun to someone’s head and telling them they are voting to get shot if they don’t vote to drop their pants and bend over. I’ll do it, but only because the alternative is worse.
Chess moves is a great analogy. There is many situations in chess where you might win a figure but move yourself in a loosing position. The best chess players are those that can think the furthest ahead.
The political culture is embracing you to never think past the next election. Dont question the set up you are given. Dont think outside the box. Dont think how not punishing the supposed moral site of politics for genocide might make genocide accepted morals in the long run.
And then if brown people can be genocided in the Middle East, why not in Central America before they flee to the US? And once we are accustomed to that, what about the brown people already living in the US? Sure they speak Spanish instead of Arabic, but there is so awful many of them these days…
That is the longterm outset we see. As climate change will push for migration and refugee seeking beyond anythinf we can fathom these days and as the supposed moral sides of politics in white supremacist countries are embracing “solutions” that used to be of the fringes of the far right, we are descending into white supreme fascism.
The political culture is embracing you to never think past the next election.
I am absolutely thinking past the next election. I want to make sure, at any cost, that the person who has vowed to become a dictator on day one, deport millions of legal immigrants, terminate the constitution, and use the military against his political opponents does not win.
In other words, I am voting in this election to ensure that there is a next election.
Since the bad faith leftists seem adamant that genocide is genocide and that there are no shades of grey involved, then my support for either candidate hardly matters in that regard, so I’m not going to let it stand in the way of casting my vote to support other issues that I care about. Women’s right to bodily autonomy and the rule of law are two big ones in my book.
I’m sorry that innocent people are dying in Palestine in a senseless conflict, truly I am. I hope the people of Israel do their own part to hold their government responsible for these atrocities, because ultimately that’s what needs to happen. Israel could continue the war indefinitely even without U.S. support. We are not the lynchpin holding the Israel-Hamas war afloat, we’re just one cog in the machine.
So you think Trump would be better than Harris? Because that’s the only thing you get to vote on: Trump or Harris. A vote for neither is a vote for whoever has more votes - and we know that statistically republicans are less likely to vote third party (or not vote), so it most likely is a vote for Trump.
no, we (speaking for myself and @selah here) don’t support genocidal candidates. stop making up stories in your head and read what people are telling you.
Because that’s the only thing you get to vote on: Trump or Harris.
incorrect there were 5 candidates on my ballot. this is a false choice that exists purely in your head. There are many paths to neutralizing trump and that don’t normalize genocide.
A vote for neither is a vote for whoever has more votes
incorrect, pure fiction. i suggest you spruce up on your basic addition and ratio math skills. What you mean to say is no vote or a vote for a 3rd party doesn’t help harris, you’re preferred candidate. yes. thereby putting her candidacy at risk. maybe she should adopt some policies to fix this.
The reason harris is swinging to the right is because the right wing doesn’t care about worker rights and many are also very disgusted with trump. They require no concessions by capital to garner votes; just a general disgust with trump. If trump wasnt running this wouldn’t be possible.
Hilariously I have no problem with this as a left wing voter. Why? because if the democrats can reliably peel off the few remaining moderate republicans we can finally split this big tent party and get a party that is dedicated to working class rights.
What you mean to say is no vote or a vote for a 3rd party doesn’t help harris, you’re preferred candidate. yes. thereby putting her candidacy at risk.
so you say that a no vote or 3rd party vote is a vote for trump, then. because those are the only 2 options. either trump or harris will be the next president of the united states. so, hurting harris means helping trump. you do get that, right?
No you say that. My ballot had 5 options. Yours may have a different number depending on the state.
If you dont like this situation thats not my problem. Its yours. Go demand rcv in your state. Go demand democrats not support a genocide. I wish harris had a single policy that’d make her worth voting for. Sadly her entire platform is already shit my state has with a genocidal cherry on top.
Sucks to suck I guess. Better luck next election, i hope this one works out for you. Until then i will continue to deny harris my vote in my 20+ dem state and let my critters know they’re on thin ice if israel continues its behavior with our support.
As ive been telling everyone its perfectly okay to not vote for harris if its not in your interests. Harris’ struggles are her own doing. IF you live in a blue state think hard on your vote there are benfits to voting third party. If you live in a purple or red state Harris’ campaign may be your best option in which case no hard feelings vote for her! Totally understandable.
I just want to point out that the idea that “questioning your party helps the enemy” is an authoritarian mentality. If we aren’t free to demand that the left-of-fascism party stop supporting (funding) genocide, then perhaps the US has already fallen to authoritarianism.
you are more than welcomed to pressure kamala on supporting the genocide. in fact, if one week from now she wins, i would hope that the support to stop the genocide continues. i know that AOC and bernie will; and I know that the russian propaganda machine that is just trying to demotivate harris’ voter will not, because their goal is not to protect the people of Palestine, but to impose an authoritarian president in the US.
i assume that some of the people here will continue because they actually care; and some will stop because the propaganda machine will point towards something else
Hey, just one human to another. That “Voting isn’t a love letter, it’s a chess move” just does absolufuckinglutely nothing and comes across as insulting/pompous on your part. You’re insulting someone’s vote as a “love letter” (great way to get someone to read and contemplate when you’re taking the meaning of the vote out of context). And your “chess move” isn’t as intelligent as you think, you’re in check and you only have one move.
Just one more fucking week to go and I can’t wait. It’s gonna be so great to see next week how Lemmy is just flooded with 3rd party initiatives, voting changes organization, donations to local and national 3rd party candidates, a heavy focus on anti-gerrymandering and securing voting rights. We’re not gonna continue to discuss how there’s no options and we can’t support other candidacies for at least 3 years…right? Everyone saying now is not the right time is gonna be super active next week with pushing to support the future parties… right?!
Hey, just one human to another. That “Voting isn’t a love letter, it’s a chess move” just does absolufuckinglutely nothing and comes across as insulting/pompous on your part.
lots of grace for trump and republicans on this issue from you, but little for democrats. Its known Netanyahu wants trump to win and has been trying to make the US as ugly as possible on this issue, the question is, why is Netanyahu playing you like a fiddle?
Its how you wrote it. If there’s an accusation that trump and netanyahu are conspiring to make things worse you give trump and netanyahu grace here. If joe biden is attempting to make things worse you believe that accusation without proof.
We live in a world where multiple presidents have been elected while torching foreign negotiations during their campaign. Reagan notably prolonged the Iran hostage crisis AND began the Iran Contra scandal before he was ever president.
If you think that we should suppose an even worse person like trump is not negotioating on some even darker plan, you simply are simply offering him more grace than fucking reagan deserved. Reagan’s “Peace deal” killed a lot of fucking people.
This is pure horseshit. Netanyahu has been stringing Biden along for half his career. Biden has willingly turned a blind eye to Israeli war crimes going back 30 years.
Trying to deflect decades of failed US middle east policy - policy that Biden helped construct first as Senator, then as VP, and finally as President - and blame it on a single phone call Trump made to egg Netanyahu on is dishonest to the point of denialism.
We’re doing “Human Shields” discourse again. It’s the Palestinian American’s fault for not endorsing the genocide of their immediate friends and family.
Scratch a fucking liberal…
Trump touts warm ties to Israel’s Netanyahu, blasts Harris
Trump, Netanyahu speak about Gaza hostage-ceasefire deal, Axios reports
Trump says he told Netanyahu to end Gaza war but criticizes ceasefire call
Trump signals support in call with Netanyahu: ‘Do what you have to do’
Voting isn’t a love letter, it’s a chess move. Biden, Harris and other establishment liberals absolutely deserve to be relentlessly mocked and criticized (and frankly indicted) for cheerleading Israel’s genocide, but aiding in the political victory of someone twice as genocidal as them, and who also intends to end democracy and target his political opponents would be a bad move.
The difference is you can win a game of chess. There is no winning with our two party oligarchy. Which candidate will give us universal healthcare? Which candidate will give us economic democracy by converting capitalist companies into worker co-ops or nationalizing critical industries? Which candidate will give us free college and the freedom to unionize without fearing for our careers? Neither of them? Cool. So either we vote for liberal corporate oligarchy or the fascist oligarchs will make us pay dearly for it. Either way we lose, but one is worse than the other. Our “democracy” is like holding a gun to someone’s head and telling them they are voting to get shot if they don’t vote to drop their pants and bend over. I’ll do it, but only because the alternative is worse.
Chess moves is a great analogy. There is many situations in chess where you might win a figure but move yourself in a loosing position. The best chess players are those that can think the furthest ahead.
The political culture is embracing you to never think past the next election. Dont question the set up you are given. Dont think outside the box. Dont think how not punishing the supposed moral site of politics for genocide might make genocide accepted morals in the long run.
And then if brown people can be genocided in the Middle East, why not in Central America before they flee to the US? And once we are accustomed to that, what about the brown people already living in the US? Sure they speak Spanish instead of Arabic, but there is so awful many of them these days…
That is the longterm outset we see. As climate change will push for migration and refugee seeking beyond anythinf we can fathom these days and as the supposed moral sides of politics in white supremacist countries are embracing “solutions” that used to be of the fringes of the far right, we are descending into white supreme fascism.
I am absolutely thinking past the next election. I want to make sure, at any cost, that the person who has vowed to become a dictator on day one, deport millions of legal immigrants, terminate the constitution, and use the military against his political opponents does not win.
In other words, I am voting in this election to ensure that there is a next election.
Since the bad faith leftists seem adamant that genocide is genocide and that there are no shades of grey involved, then my support for either candidate hardly matters in that regard, so I’m not going to let it stand in the way of casting my vote to support other issues that I care about. Women’s right to bodily autonomy and the rule of law are two big ones in my book.
I’m sorry that innocent people are dying in Palestine in a senseless conflict, truly I am. I hope the people of Israel do their own part to hold their government responsible for these atrocities, because ultimately that’s what needs to happen. Israel could continue the war indefinitely even without U.S. support. We are not the lynchpin holding the Israel-Hamas war afloat, we’re just one cog in the machine.
So you think Trump would be better than Harris? Because that’s the only thing you get to vote on: Trump or Harris. A vote for neither is a vote for whoever has more votes - and we know that statistically republicans are less likely to vote third party (or not vote), so it most likely is a vote for Trump.
no, we (speaking for myself and @selah here) don’t support genocidal candidates. stop making up stories in your head and read what people are telling you.
incorrect there were 5 candidates on my ballot. this is a false choice that exists purely in your head. There are many paths to neutralizing trump and that don’t normalize genocide.
incorrect, pure fiction. i suggest you spruce up on your basic addition and ratio math skills. What you mean to say is no vote or a vote for a 3rd party doesn’t help harris, you’re preferred candidate. yes. thereby putting her candidacy at risk. maybe she should adopt some policies to fix this.
The reason harris is swinging to the right is because the right wing doesn’t care about worker rights and many are also very disgusted with trump. They require no concessions by capital to garner votes; just a general disgust with trump. If trump wasnt running this wouldn’t be possible.
Hilariously I have no problem with this as a left wing voter. Why? because if the democrats can reliably peel off the few remaining moderate republicans we can finally split this big tent party and get a party that is dedicated to working class rights.
so you say that a no vote or 3rd party vote is a vote for trump, then. because those are the only 2 options. either trump or harris will be the next president of the united states. so, hurting harris means helping trump. you do get that, right?
No you say that. My ballot had 5 options. Yours may have a different number depending on the state.
If you dont like this situation thats not my problem. Its yours. Go demand rcv in your state. Go demand democrats not support a genocide. I wish harris had a single policy that’d make her worth voting for. Sadly her entire platform is already shit my state has with a genocidal cherry on top.
Sucks to suck I guess. Better luck next election, i hope this one works out for you. Until then i will continue to deny harris my vote in my 20+ dem state and let my critters know they’re on thin ice if israel continues its behavior with our support.
As ive been telling everyone its perfectly okay to not vote for harris if its not in your interests. Harris’ struggles are her own doing. IF you live in a blue state think hard on your vote there are benfits to voting third party. If you live in a purple or red state Harris’ campaign may be your best option in which case no hard feelings vote for her! Totally understandable.
I just want to point out that the idea that “questioning your party helps the enemy” is an authoritarian mentality. If we aren’t free to demand that the left-of-fascism party stop supporting (funding) genocide, then perhaps the US has already fallen to authoritarianism.
you are more than welcomed to pressure kamala on supporting the genocide. in fact, if one week from now she wins, i would hope that the support to stop the genocide continues. i know that AOC and bernie will; and I know that the russian propaganda machine that is just trying to demotivate harris’ voter will not, because their goal is not to protect the people of Palestine, but to impose an authoritarian president in the US. i assume that some of the people here will continue because they actually care; and some will stop because the propaganda machine will point towards something else
But the timeline is:
Prevent worse
After that protest and show the democrats how much you disagree with their stance on that
Hey, just one human to another. That “Voting isn’t a love letter, it’s a chess move” just does absolufuckinglutely nothing and comes across as insulting/pompous on your part. You’re insulting someone’s vote as a “love letter” (great way to get someone to read and contemplate when you’re taking the meaning of the vote out of context). And your “chess move” isn’t as intelligent as you think, you’re in check and you only have one move.
Just one more fucking week to go and I can’t wait. It’s gonna be so great to see next week how Lemmy is just flooded with 3rd party initiatives, voting changes organization, donations to local and national 3rd party candidates, a heavy focus on anti-gerrymandering and securing voting rights. We’re not gonna continue to discuss how there’s no options and we can’t support other candidacies for at least 3 years…right? Everyone saying now is not the right time is gonna be super active next week with pushing to support the future parties… right?!
Pretty sure that’s the intent.
lots of grace for trump and republicans on this issue from you, but little for democrats. Its known Netanyahu wants trump to win and has been trying to make the US as ugly as possible on this issue, the question is, why is Netanyahu playing you like a fiddle?
If that’s how you’ve chosen to read it, there’s no reaching you.
Its how you wrote it. If there’s an accusation that trump and netanyahu are conspiring to make things worse you give trump and netanyahu grace here. If joe biden is attempting to make things worse you believe that accusation without proof.
We live in a world where multiple presidents have been elected while torching foreign negotiations during their campaign. Reagan notably prolonged the Iran hostage crisis AND began the Iran Contra scandal before he was ever president.
If you think that we should suppose an even worse person like trump is not negotioating on some even darker plan, you simply are simply offering him more grace than fucking reagan deserved. Reagan’s “Peace deal” killed a lot of fucking people.