Edit: In case anyone needs this broken down: Online videogame marketplaces are a resource. The supply of online videogame marketplaces is fixed. Valve is the owner of the largest online videogame marketplace, Steam. The publisher of a videogame pays Valve to list their game on Steam. A payment to the owner of a resource, the supply of which is fixed, is economic rent. Imagine how low you gotta be to downvote Wikipedia.
A market is not a resource. It’s not coal in the ground that Valve came along, dug up, and provides to people for a fee. They built the whole market, it’s theirs, and they built it when there were no guidelines or examples to follow either. If you want your game on there it requires a mutual benefit because if only the game makers benefit then there won’t be a market anymore due to no doubt astronomical costs of servers, development, moderation, etc. If there were no charges there’d be no market and publishers would have to sell their games on the remaining markets which, at the time of Steam’s creation, was nowhere and even now is multiple inferior places.
Appreciate you actually inputting your view.You’re right in that I was mixing colloquial terms with technical ones, and thus my statements were wrong, or at least misleading. A market is not a resource, but a marketplace can be a factor of production, the owner of which is paid a rent.
When I referred to the online marketplace of Steam as a resource, I was comparing Steam to a marketplace, like a business complex, which is a capital good and a factor of production for businesses operating out of the business complex. Those businesses operating out of the complex pay a rent to the owner of that business complex. We don’t see traditional production in the games industry, wherein if you as a business have produced X amount of output, you have also created X amount of income. With cars or grain or tangible products, when you turn inputs into outputs, you own the value of the outputs. That’s not true for a videogame, whose value comes from the sale. In that sense, Steam is a factor of production in that value-creation process – it is an input – and as such, game devs pay a rent to Valve for that.
I’m not saying there are no operational costs for Steam. All I’m saying is they charge a form of rent to the creators of videogames. That rent may encapsulate other benefits, like being put on the front of the Steam store (marketing), analytics, tools for devs to interact with customers, etc. But it is still rent, since it comes in my opinion before the value is created.
I mean, there is a reason the individual in the article, and Valve’s own former resident economist Yanis Varoufakis refer to Steam as a digital fiefdom. It is a digital equivalent of peasants paying a rent to work on an owner’s land. In this case, Steam as a factor of production is not land, but capital.
Then again, I’m not an economist. Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong.
Lmao you’re the one misunderstanding rents here, you don’t need to try to spin it around on me. If you think you’re right, go ahead and tell me where I’m wrong based on that definition.
I’ll bother and explain why you’re being stupid and not understanding the thing you yourself posted.
From the definition of factors of production on Wikipedia:
"In economics, factors of production, resources, or inputs are what is used in the production process to produce output—that is, goods and services.
Simply put, rent is paid at INPUT, for things like land, in order to produce OUTPUT, which are things like goods and services. What Steam provides is a SERVICE, an output. You don’t pay economic rent on outputs, you pay economic rent for inputs. Steam’s service being: marketing and distribution of games in place of others, plus integration with analytics and a bunch of other features.
The comparison you’re making is the same as saying you’re paying rent to your team of marketers and accountants…
You could make a point and argue that artists are paying economic rent for Adobe suite, and that game developers are paying rent for unreal engine fees. Without those things, which are inputs for production, neither artists or game developers would have a product at all. Steam only comes into play once the final product is already done. You don’t need Steam before the game is a product at all, which corroborates that Steam is not economic rent, for it’s not a payment made for an Input in order to produce an output.
Also, in what way is the marketplace for games fixed? It’s not a finite resource. There’s no finite number of how many stores there are out there, anyone can go and make their own client and store. There are games and developers that up to this day make their own standalone launchers.
Steams offers a service, the best one in the block. You don’t want it? You’re entirely free to go and figure it out yourself.
No monopolistic behavior in sight.
Thank you. I don’t think I’m being stupid, but you have made me think about it a lot, so I appreciate that. You are right that the online marketplace is not a fixed resource, that’s not technically right at all. I was thinking for a long time, “did I misunderstand that?” I certainly didn’t think about the input vs output aspect of production. This led me to do some more reading and here’s what I’ve got.
I do still think Steam is factor of production in that it is a capital good, like a business complex. The problem with your outputs argument, I think, is outputs are the quantity and quality of goods or services produced in a given time period. Well, for the devs, there really isn’t an output in the traditional productive sense. They didn’t produce a bunch of cars, creating X amount of value through their labor. The value is only created when copies are sold, and in that sense Steam, and other game stores are inputs in the value created by a game dev. I think one could even make an argument that publishers provide a service and Steam is involved in that as a factor of production, but I think that speaks more to the strangeness of the software market in general. Anyways thanks for actually taking the time, I got to learn some cool stuff and feel a little humbled in the process so that is good
In neoclassical economics, economic rent is any payment (in the context of a market transaction) to the owner of a factor of production or resource, supply of which is fixed.[1] In classical economics, economic rent is any payment made (including imputed value) or benefit received for non-produced inputs such as location (land) and for assets formed by creating official privilege over natural opportunities (e.g., patents). In the moral economy of neoclassical economics, economic rent includes income gained by labor or state beneficiaries of other “contrived” (assuming the market is natural, and does not come about by state and social contrivance) exclusivity, such as labor guilds and unofficial corruption.
Edit: In case anyone needs this broken down: Online videogame marketplaces are a resource. The supply of online videogame marketplaces is fixed. Valve is the owner of the largest online videogame marketplace, Steam. The publisher of a videogame pays Valve to list their game on Steam. A payment to the owner of a resource, the supply of which is fixed, is economic rent. Imagine how low you gotta be to downvote Wikipedia.
I think you need to carefully read the quotes you just posted because they disagree with what you’re saying.
I don’t think they do, but if so I’m happily ready to admit I’m wrong. How do you find my interpretation wrong?
A market is not a resource. It’s not coal in the ground that Valve came along, dug up, and provides to people for a fee. They built the whole market, it’s theirs, and they built it when there were no guidelines or examples to follow either. If you want your game on there it requires a mutual benefit because if only the game makers benefit then there won’t be a market anymore due to no doubt astronomical costs of servers, development, moderation, etc. If there were no charges there’d be no market and publishers would have to sell their games on the remaining markets which, at the time of Steam’s creation, was nowhere and even now is multiple inferior places.
Appreciate you actually inputting your view.You’re right in that I was mixing colloquial terms with technical ones, and thus my statements were wrong, or at least misleading. A market is not a resource, but a marketplace can be a factor of production, the owner of which is paid a rent.
When I referred to the online marketplace of Steam as a resource, I was comparing Steam to a marketplace, like a business complex, which is a capital good and a factor of production for businesses operating out of the business complex. Those businesses operating out of the complex pay a rent to the owner of that business complex. We don’t see traditional production in the games industry, wherein if you as a business have produced X amount of output, you have also created X amount of income. With cars or grain or tangible products, when you turn inputs into outputs, you own the value of the outputs. That’s not true for a videogame, whose value comes from the sale. In that sense, Steam is a factor of production in that value-creation process – it is an input – and as such, game devs pay a rent to Valve for that.
I’m not saying there are no operational costs for Steam. All I’m saying is they charge a form of rent to the creators of videogames. That rent may encapsulate other benefits, like being put on the front of the Steam store (marketing), analytics, tools for devs to interact with customers, etc. But it is still rent, since it comes in my opinion before the value is created.
I mean, there is a reason the individual in the article, and Valve’s own former resident economist Yanis Varoufakis refer to Steam as a digital fiefdom. It is a digital equivalent of peasants paying a rent to work on an owner’s land. In this case, Steam as a factor of production is not land, but capital.
Then again, I’m not an economist. Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong.
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Lmao you’re the one misunderstanding rents here, you don’t need to try to spin it around on me. If you think you’re right, go ahead and tell me where I’m wrong based on that definition.
I’ll bother and explain why you’re being stupid and not understanding the thing you yourself posted.
From the definition of factors of production on Wikipedia:
Simply put, rent is paid at INPUT, for things like land, in order to produce OUTPUT, which are things like goods and services. What Steam provides is a SERVICE, an output. You don’t pay economic rent on outputs, you pay economic rent for inputs. Steam’s service being: marketing and distribution of games in place of others, plus integration with analytics and a bunch of other features.
The comparison you’re making is the same as saying you’re paying rent to your team of marketers and accountants…
You could make a point and argue that artists are paying economic rent for Adobe suite, and that game developers are paying rent for unreal engine fees. Without those things, which are inputs for production, neither artists or game developers would have a product at all. Steam only comes into play once the final product is already done. You don’t need Steam before the game is a product at all, which corroborates that Steam is not economic rent, for it’s not a payment made for an Input in order to produce an output.
Also, in what way is the marketplace for games fixed? It’s not a finite resource. There’s no finite number of how many stores there are out there, anyone can go and make their own client and store. There are games and developers that up to this day make their own standalone launchers.
Steams offers a service, the best one in the block. You don’t want it? You’re entirely free to go and figure it out yourself. No monopolistic behavior in sight.
Thank you. I don’t think I’m being stupid, but you have made me think about it a lot, so I appreciate that. You are right that the online marketplace is not a fixed resource, that’s not technically right at all. I was thinking for a long time, “did I misunderstand that?” I certainly didn’t think about the input vs output aspect of production. This led me to do some more reading and here’s what I’ve got.
I do still think Steam is factor of production in that it is a capital good, like a business complex. The problem with your outputs argument, I think, is outputs are the quantity and quality of goods or services produced in a given time period. Well, for the devs, there really isn’t an output in the traditional productive sense. They didn’t produce a bunch of cars, creating X amount of value through their labor. The value is only created when copies are sold, and in that sense Steam, and other game stores are inputs in the value created by a game dev. I think one could even make an argument that publishers provide a service and Steam is involved in that as a factor of production, but I think that speaks more to the strangeness of the software market in general. Anyways thanks for actually taking the time, I got to learn some cool stuff and feel a little humbled in the process so that is good