- cross-posted to:
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- cross-posted to:
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cross-posted from: https://quokk.au/post/1499265
What a Christmas present!
Italo-Celtic is a hypothetical branch of the Indo-European languages. If that branch is real, it means that the Italic and Celtic languages are closer to each other than to other Indo-European languages.
This hypothesis has been raised multiple times in the past, due to a few shared morphological features between Italic and Celtic languages; for example, the *-ism̥mo- superlative. But that’s on its own weak evidence, so this genomic data makes wonders to reinforce this hypothesis.
And also to bury the competing (IMO rather silly) Italo-Germanic one.
Graeco-Armenian is similar to the above, but between the Hellenic languages and Armenian. There were lots of competing hypotheses “tying” both branches to other “random” Indo-European branches; for example I’ve seen Indo-Greek, Italo-Greek, Armeno-Germanic, Armeno-Albanian…
Asking as a mostly amateur in the field - how relevant is this to historical phonology exactly? Is VOT supposed to be a historically particularly resilient phenomenon?
EDIT, TL;DR: if the only contrast between 2+ stop series is VOT, they won’t switch places. Either Greek or Armenian did so, so at least one PIE stop series has a secondary articulation for sure.
However the traditional reconstruction assigns breathy voice to this secondary articulation, creating a highly unstable system for PIE that would almost certainly not survive as late as Proto-Graeco-Armenian.
Sorry beforehand for the wall of text.
The currently proposed phonological system for Proto-Indo-European has three series of stop consonants:
This system is not directly attested in any of the children languages. In fact, it is not attested at all; there’s a language from Borneo called Kelabit that uses something similar-ish, but that’s it. This lack of attestation happens because because breathy voiced consonants are complex to articulate, and… well, humans are lazy, if we can convey a contrast without a complex articulation, we do.
And different child languages would have handled the situation in different ways:
So far, so good, right?
Well. If Greek and Armenian are closer to each other than they are to other IE branches, this means that Proto-Graeco-Armenian existed. And that it inherited that *t d dʰ system. That, as I said, is highly unstable and unattested… like, we can give a pass to a weird system surviving just enough so its descendants get rid of it, but having that weird system survive for likely centuries, perhaps millennia? It’s likely bullshit.
Now let’s talk about voice onset time, or VOT. VOT can change over time; however, consonant series distinguished only by VOT will never “switch places” - because once the VOT of both series gets similar enough, they’ll simply merge. So for example:
(Note: I’m using only [tʰ t d] for the examples, but the reasoning is the same for [pʰ p b] or [kʰ k g] etc.)
The same applies if you have three series of consonants, instead of two; you typically don’t see a “merry-go-round” like [tʰ t d]→[t d tʰ], because once that last series increases its VOT, it’s bound to merge with the second series.
…and yet if you look only at Ancient Greek and Armenian, it’s like one of them did the above - because Greek /tʰ/ (highest VOT) corresponds to Armenian /d/ (lowest VOT).
The only way to switch the places of the series is if their distinction is not just based on VOT, but also something else, at least temporarily. Like… breathy voice.
Are you noticing the contradiction? It’s like we need a bullshit system to survive for a huge period of time, enough for Proto-Graeco-Armenian to be able to inherit it.