It’s funny how you’re criticising me with something that the US doesn’t do, but China does. Don’t make it sound like I’m in support of the US, I wouldn’t want to live there. Probably would want to live in Sweden. But I also wouldn’t want to live in China, for different reasons. It seems like just because China claims it’s ‘socialist’, you think it must treat its citizens well. I’m all in support of true socialism. But China just uses ‘socialism’ or communism as a method to oppress, control, monitor and censor its citizens.
I think the word socialism has been used in so many contexts it’s lost any semblance of a ‘real’ meaning. Perhaps what I meant to say earlier is that China is fundamentally capitalist, same as USA, China just has a more oppressive government. Perhaps China does have a few aspects which are more communist, but it is overshadowed by the authoritarian nature of government.
In my ideal communist world there would be little state interference between small communes of no more than 300 people. Of course, you have to ensure that people aren’t killing or enslaving each other, but otherwise, don’t monitor for example, their internet usage - which both China and USA do, although China a little more openly, and for more things.
I think we can both agree that our ideal world would be nothing like the USA as it is today, but would your ideal communist world be more like China, my scenario, or something else entirely?
Name how many children China has bombed to death since 1949. Name how many children the United States has bombed to death just from that time period to today.
In my ideal communist world
We don’t live in an ideal world, we never will live in an ideal world, we have to live in reality. We have to study the conditions of reality and determine what is the best society we can make considering these conditions. We can’t just try to create a society based on what we feel is best.
but it is overshadowed by the authoritarian nature of government.
there would be little state interference between small communes of no more than 300 people.
Realistically, how would such a society function? Why can’t we still have big cities which require the work of millions of people every day just to prosper? How are we even going to turn these big cities into small communes anyway? How are you going to get people on board with the idea in the first place? How will these communes work with each other? What would happen if some of these communes decide not to work with any other commune? What would happen if some of these communes produced essential goods such as insulin, which diabetic people need to not die. If there is no state or governance of any kind to prevent this from happening, how can it be prevented?
but would your ideal communist world be like China, my scenario, or something else entirely?
It would not look like any of those because, again, we do not live in an ideal world, and we are not even certain what a communist world would look like. What we do know is that it would not look like China, because class distinction would have gone away which would cause the state to lose its function and thus wither away. It would not look like your scenario either because the socialist state would focus on centralizing, not decentralizing the means of production. This, the socialization of the means of production, is what the process of socialism looks like. The idea of there being “small communes of no more than 300 people” would most likely only exist in the minds of some people and not in reality. Entire cities would not be divided between a bunch of small communes, they would be united as that is the most realistic way to create an organized society which allows people to have access to necessities and luxuries that such a society produces. To get to a moneyless, stateless, classless society, we cannot just try to instantly create it, as we live in a world where the capitalist state will just come in and take that over. We will need a state that will fight against the capitalist class and help us develop a centralized, socialist society. Otherwise, our “communist” society would not look like communism, it would look like neo-feudalism.
The US absolutely does credit score, without it you can’t take a loan to buy a car or a house and many other things. It is weird that you don’t know this…
China is developing socialism, they are in the primary stage of socialism. Developing socialism is a long-term arduous process, it is not a state of mind. I recommend you reading the Governance of china by Xi Jingping, the general secretary of the CPC, it is a collection of essays and speeches by Xi with a very rich reference section, where a lot of concepts are clearly explained.
China’s economy did not get to this point by exploiting global south countries like Europe/US did, they did it by developing their own productive forces, especially after the ‘Reform and opening-up’, accepting foreign investment to learn from it and modernize the country. They did not let foreign investment run rampant, they had strict conditions that foreign investors had to follow. This is why they are constantly called authoritarian, because they did not let foreign investors run rampart.
Living, and thus working, conditions in China were terrible (and are in many places still) precisely because they were a backwards country that endured decades off exploitation by other countries. But the conditions of the people of china have been getting better and better exponentially since the opening up reform, this is simply a material reality not ‘ccp propaganda’.
Sweden is not ‘true socialism’, it is a late-stage capitalist country; an imperialist country, a country where finance capital rules. Their wealth comes from the exploitation of the global south mainly through the finance system (predatory loans to global south countries, extracting rent forever and ever), like all other european countries.
You can tell China doesn’t care about its people by the fact that they did zero covid for months and delivered groceries to everybody, as opposed to the enlightened and humane west, which let that shit rip and killed everyone’s grandma to make line go up
It’s funny how you’re criticising me with something that the US doesn’t do, but China does. Don’t make it sound like I’m in support of the US, I wouldn’t want to live there. Probably would want to live in Sweden. But I also wouldn’t want to live in China, for different reasons. It seems like just because China claims it’s ‘socialist’, you think it must treat its citizens well. I’m all in support of true socialism. But China just uses ‘socialism’ or communism as a method to oppress, control, monitor and censor its citizens.
“It WaSn’T rEaL sOcIaLiSm!1!1!1!”
I think the word socialism has been used in so many contexts it’s lost any semblance of a ‘real’ meaning. Perhaps what I meant to say earlier is that China is fundamentally capitalist, same as USA, China just has a more oppressive government. Perhaps China does have a few aspects which are more communist, but it is overshadowed by the authoritarian nature of government.
In my ideal communist world there would be little state interference between small communes of no more than 300 people. Of course, you have to ensure that people aren’t killing or enslaving each other, but otherwise, don’t monitor for example, their internet usage - which both China and USA do, although China a little more openly, and for more things.
I think we can both agree that our ideal world would be nothing like the USA as it is today, but would your ideal communist world be more like China, my scenario, or something else entirely?
Read what rjs001 put.
Who told you this? Radio Free Asia? The Western media slanders China and many other countries all the time. In reality, the Chinese government is one of the most democratic in the world. Also, apparently a government which is trusted by 89% of their people, according to a WESTERN source, is oppressive. Name any recent police killings of unarmed people by Chinese police. Name any instances of American police doing the same thing.
Name how many children China has bombed to death since 1949. Name how many children the United States has bombed to death just from that time period to today.
We don’t live in an ideal world, we never will live in an ideal world, we have to live in reality. We have to study the conditions of reality and determine what is the best society we can make considering these conditions. We can’t just try to create a society based on what we feel is best.
Electing your own leaders is pretty authoritarian, isn’t it? Also, read the “China just has a more oppressive government” part again.
Realistically, how would such a society function? Why can’t we still have big cities which require the work of millions of people every day just to prosper? How are we even going to turn these big cities into small communes anyway? How are you going to get people on board with the idea in the first place? How will these communes work with each other? What would happen if some of these communes decide not to work with any other commune? What would happen if some of these communes produced essential goods such as insulin, which diabetic people need to not die. If there is no state or governance of any kind to prevent this from happening, how can it be prevented?
It would not look like any of those because, again, we do not live in an ideal world, and we are not even certain what a communist world would look like. What we do know is that it would not look like China, because class distinction would have gone away which would cause the state to lose its function and thus wither away. It would not look like your scenario either because the socialist state would focus on centralizing, not decentralizing the means of production. This, the socialization of the means of production, is what the process of socialism looks like. The idea of there being “small communes of no more than 300 people” would most likely only exist in the minds of some people and not in reality. Entire cities would not be divided between a bunch of small communes, they would be united as that is the most realistic way to create an organized society which allows people to have access to necessities and luxuries that such a society produces. To get to a moneyless, stateless, classless society, we cannot just try to instantly create it, as we live in a world where the capitalist state will just come in and take that over. We will need a state that will fight against the capitalist class and help us develop a centralized, socialist society. Otherwise, our “communist” society would not look like communism, it would look like neo-feudalism.
The US absolutely does credit score, without it you can’t take a loan to buy a car or a house and many other things. It is weird that you don’t know this…
China is developing socialism, they are in the primary stage of socialism. Developing socialism is a long-term arduous process, it is not a state of mind. I recommend you reading the Governance of china by Xi Jingping, the general secretary of the CPC, it is a collection of essays and speeches by Xi with a very rich reference section, where a lot of concepts are clearly explained.
China’s economy did not get to this point by exploiting global south countries like Europe/US did, they did it by developing their own productive forces, especially after the ‘Reform and opening-up’, accepting foreign investment to learn from it and modernize the country. They did not let foreign investment run rampant, they had strict conditions that foreign investors had to follow. This is why they are constantly called authoritarian, because they did not let foreign investors run rampart.
Living, and thus working, conditions in China were terrible (and are in many places still) precisely because they were a backwards country that endured decades off exploitation by other countries. But the conditions of the people of china have been getting better and better exponentially since the opening up reform, this is simply a material reality not ‘ccp propaganda’.
Sweden is not ‘true socialism’, it is a late-stage capitalist country; an imperialist country, a country where finance capital rules. Their wealth comes from the exploitation of the global south mainly through the finance system (predatory loans to global south countries, extracting rent forever and ever), like all other european countries.
You can tell China doesn’t care about its people by the fact that they did zero covid for months and delivered groceries to everybody, as opposed to the enlightened and humane west, which let that shit rip and killed everyone’s grandma to make line go up
I’m curious what your idea of “true socialism” is 🤔 In contrast, is “true capitalism” a thing? I’m just asking questions.
The emoji reads “us-foreign-policy”. Accurate as hell.
The “international community” decides what is acceptable socialism. If it’s too socialist then it’s an evil totalitarian regime.