I won’t get into that in order to avoid tankie accusations and I certainly don’t want to deny anything as fucked up and serious as a potential genocide but just be sure you double check your sources. CIA runs deep.

True. But at least China is lifting the poor out of poverty. Definitely can’t say the same for the states.

Again, this is conveniently only partially correct. There is a lot of obvious propaganda targeted at the uneducated/uninformed peoples but the real propaganda is everything that you just accept as truth. You would assume incorrectly that the US is bad at propaganda if you just equate propaganda with Fox news but it goes much deeper than that.

In the 1950s the CIA began the work to create a vast propaganda network in order to combat the spread of socialism. They staffed some journalists in all the major news spots (i.e. NY Times etc) and started all these convenient organizations around the world to help spread false information about their enemies.

One of the many many organizations they founded was Radio Free Asia which is very active to this day. They use anonymous sources for most of their propaganda pieces, or cite one of the other CIA funded organizations, and then all major western news medias parrot their articles/claims. The founder of the National Endowment for Democracy admitted that the NED is a CIA cutout and they regularly give “grants” to journalists to spread their propaganda.

On top of that they have had direct involvement in hollywood since forever in order to control state messaging. Targeted social media campaigns, especially on reddit. It was accidentally revealed that one of the most active cities on reddit just so happens to be a military base 😂 Unfortunately, these things are just the tip of the iceberg.

There is a lot that Americans have been brainwashed into accepting as truth and it is certainly amongst the educated as well. It may sound crazy or conspiratorial but it is unfortunately the truth. It is a bit shocking once you start pulling on that thread.

Way to distill valid arguments down into “my side isn’t winning”. That is not what I said.

The US is an Oligarchy where corporate power makes the rules. Corporations have more power and less liability than citizens. And the power gap has been growing more and more since Reagan. Those are the facts. The system is so inherently broken and corrupt you aren’t going to fix it within the system. It is super naive to think otherwise.

There is zero accountability for political corruption and bribes so basically all of congress is bought and paid for (see AIPAC for example). Now that Chevron is overturned the supreme court gets to decide free from expert opinion what our constitution means. Where is the democracy in that?

Unfortunately incorrect. US citizens are some of the most propagandized people on this planet. (Both “sides” of the political spectrum)

To be(e) polite I will put it this way: some of you are living in a fantasy land. What do you mean “secured democracy”? What democracy?

Statistically speaking, we (US citizens) have roughly 0% effect on federal policy. There is virtually no representation for the left. The right is too stupid to realize they are relinquishing their rights. And liberals (aka centrists) yell “we have to save democracy by voting for this other skin bag” even though this other skin bag wants the same thing as the “scary” skin bag but this other skinbag fucks us over quietly and at least pretends to want to alleviate the student loan problem (that he basically created).

And then liberals blame the people who actually use their voice to not contribute to a murdering, racist, genocidal pig - like it’s their fault. At least I can say those who support the right are just animals with rocks for brains but what is the usually well educated libs excuse for willingly accepting and being complicit in the demise of democracy?

Telling someone they may as well be a Russian shill for not voting for your nasty decrepit walking skin sack of a monster is a lame and childish move and the fact that you and everyone else who does so is ignorant to the fact that you/they are also actively contributing to the rise of fascism is actually infuriating.

The DNC fucked up, not me or anyone else with a conscience and a spine. But the whole point is they don’t even care dude. You don’t even have a democracy to save.

My bad, I didn’t think pointing out someones bad attitude was crossing the line.

Because you are speaking english and you are focusing on China instead of somewhere your voice might be heard. What are we supposed to do, bomb their civilians so they stop treating their civilians poorly? lol come on dude

Yeah, sure clean all yards but start with your own.

Your statement here and your reaction to how the community has responded is ignorant. Not sure how self awareness is dehumanizing unless you fancy yourself a champion for corporations but okay.

Man I hate coming in and whatabouting but you do realize that the entire EV industry is committing some major atrocities against the people of the Congo right? Western corporations are ruthlessly vile down there. Everything you named and more.

How about we clean up our own yard before telling on the neighbor?

I see where you’re coming from but you aren’t really speaking for the majority on lemmy. We are more open to open source projects and linux around here.

Unfortunately, I also have to use windows for some things, but microsoft and windows 11 are hot garbage, just like your attitude.

It is not even close to a good enough reason. First of all, I don’t really give a shit about what other people do or don’t do on their computers. It is not my responsibility. Second, sneaking in their cloud solution isn’t the right move ever.

Let the user decide if they want it, enable it by default I don’t care, but don’t sneak it in like it’s a fuckin trojan lol

Thanks for the reasonable response, it was interesting to read. I guess it could make sense but wow how convenient 😅

Fitting but a little ironic to bring that up. The Bay of Pigs and everything that lead up to that is a great example of what the US gets up to globally and exactly the kind of thing that makes me question the western narrative. They (the CIA) didn’t just stop doing shit like that.

That being said, I don’t support Russia either. I am not apologizing for their actions just providing pieces of explanations. Let’s not pretend that they haven’t had NATO expansion as a big red line on their list for a long time. The threat of more NATO at their border within an arms reach of their major cities is obviously fair. But I do think they are using that as an excuse while at the same time I think the US is taking major advantage of this situation. That is, in my opinion, a problem for peace.

Sure, countries have the right to self determine but you can’t ignore the diplomatic consequences of that. Shit doesn’t exist in a bubble. And the populist uprising was not so free from western influence. Come on thats CIA playbook 101 😅

Anyways, it is obviously a complex situation but the instant overnight prowar stance everyone has had since day 1 of this invasion is steeped with propaganda and people are immediately shutdown for questioning any part of the narrative and being labeled “putin’s puppet”. That is my real issue with this discourse. You cannot look at history and honestly think America is the good guys at pretty much any point post-ww2 so question the fuckin narrative.

It isn’t even apologetics, it’s just analysis that isn’t “russia bad america good”. My point in the other thread you called me out in is just as valid here, nobody can talk about this shit rationally without spewing western propaganda and even when actual facts and valid criticisms are brought up, this is the rhetoric people retort to. “This person said something that gives a sliver of doubt to the active liberal thought pattern therefore he must be a russian shill.”

I just have to assume you are a bunch of children or state actors at this point because it is infuriatingly ridiculous and naive.

I didn’t stalk anyones comment history, I have just interacted with that person a bit. Come on lemmy is not that active, especially on beehaw. It is basically the same names commenting on this shit lol

But Israel is a settler colonial project which is a type of colonialism and is still valid. And I don’t understand your point, it doesn’t make sense.

Is that why the imperialist United States of America has 750+ military bases in 80 countries? Lol the fucking hypocrisy dude

Conveniently, Israel treats all Palestinians as if they were Hamas militants (who themselves are a resistance group resisting modern settler colonialism). Hamas is a convenient reason for them to ethnically cleanse a whole people. How is that difficult to see as the wrong side?

You can’t just handwave Israel committing atrocity after atrocity after (but especially prior to) October 7th. It isn’t that difficult to see which side is the wrong side for anyone with a couple brain cells and a functioning moral compass. Colonialism was terrible in the past and it is terrible in the present. Genocide and apartheid are bad for anyone who are not racists. Pretty easy line there.

edit: also the person I responded to poorly defends Israel in every thread and regularly uses bad faith argumentative tactics to spin out more propaganda. That is partially why I felt the need to respond.

Yes, both the US and Russia use proxies in the middle east to fight each other and have for years. But that has little to do with Israel’s active genocide.

lol I wish I got paid some money for trying to talk some sense into pro war idiots on the internet.

edit: For real though, why is that your reaction to literal facts? Some of you are too fucking gone to reason with 😅