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This was at a self-service kiosk, too, right?
If you can’t afford living wages for your staff so they’re not dependant on tips, your store shouldn’t be open.
Everyone working a job should be making a living wage. “Oh, but then the price of my McDonald’s cheeseburger will skyrocket!!” Fucking good. If it’s not economical to produce a product without abusing people, that product shouldn’t exist. Period. I will die on this hill.
Hamburgling used to be a decent profession. Now with such cheap burgers all those skilled workers are left out.
“Oh, but then the price of my McDonald’s cheeseburger will skyrocket!!” Fucking good
I don’t know why people keep repeating this propaganda. Plenty of countries pay actual wages to their employees, don’t have tipping, and the prices are still fucking cheaper than America.
If any place said a 30% tip is so so, I’m not tipping.
If I saw this I would give them exactly what I think they’re worth. $0.01 and a bad online review.
Nice precedent for corruption
10-15% IF you went above and beyond or performed particularly well. It’s a tip, I am not your employer. I used to be a huge tipper until I realized just how fucked that whole system is. Also, NEVER PRE-TIP. That is insane!
What’s pre-tipping? A tip before you’ve even had service?
Its what you have to do these days if you want your uber to show up in a reasonable amount of time.
Pre-tipping is how rub and tug’s work. For real.
I don’t think 10-15% has been considered a reasonable tip for “above and beyond” since the 80s. Most will take that as an insult worse than not tipping, funnily enough.
As for pre-tips, they (intentionally?) design the checkout process such that if there’s a pre-tip, there is no post-tip. It’s basically a “don’t spit in my burger” fee.
Pre-tip? I think that’s called a bribe
Complain all you want, but not tipping is straight up taking money from someone who is getting paid $5 an hour. Complain to ownership, write your congressman and state legislators, but not tipping only punishes someone who is barely scrapping by.
Your opinion is a result of class warfare propaganda, to get working class people arguing with each other. Direct your anger to the employer.
So, dear reader, notice how whenever defenders of tipping come along, it’s always the same story.
Oh boohoo my poor minimum wage (which is pegged to the same minimum wage as non-tipped workers in states where most people live).
Ever wonder why it’s always about the minimum wage and never about how much money they make?
Any server with 2 brain cells clears $40 an hour in untaxed cash wages every shift.
They never report it on their taxes, and yet they will cry about their poor wittle wage at every opportunity expecting people that make half their salary to tip them 100% for rudely dropping off a plate once and never coming back, making you wait 20 minutes to close a check.
Notice the pattern. Remember how I was right next time.
Ask them if they’d rather abolish tipping next time. Notice how none of them say “yes”.
I’m 100% on board with ending tipping, i am just saying that stiffing your server won’t do anything to end it.
It will when servers refuse to work those jobs
Also tipping is for actual table service. If you just hand me some food I’m not tipping you for handing me food.
I recently ordered some parts for an e-vape online. At the payment page it asked for a tip. I was in disbelief. (I didn’t take a screenshot, but in retrospect I should have.)
No services rendered, no food being made, nobody personally delivering it to my house. But it still wanted a tip, with the explanation that it was “to support our team!”
Where to even begin…
Employer is obligated to make up the difference so that perosn gets at least min wage.
So this statement is factually incorrect
A couple issues with this take every time it’s mentioned.
- That isn’t on a per-hour basis. That is based on a usually weekly or bi-weekly cycle depending on your state. So if someone made a lot of reported tips on Saturday night, effectively making a couple hundred per hour, and no tips the entire rest of the week, they might still make the overall minimum wage for the week, effectively working 30+ hours for $2.13 an hour (federal tipped minimum) instead of $7.25 (federal minimum) or more depending on the state.
They’re making on average of a good amount, but most of that work is for shit pay no one would ever consider doing at that pay rate. It is very good money during that busy time, but anyone that’s ever worked food service knows busy times like that are an insane amount of work in comparison.
I just had a long conversation with my sister, a restaurant server, yesterday.
I remarked that the value the restaurant gets from her didn’t go down because she did a good job. Why should they get to pay her less when she over performs?
I’m not sure she got it.
They frequently don’t.
Report them to the proper state authority… How is this my problem as a consumer?
Am I supposed to hold owners accountable?
Am I supposed to hold owners accountable?
Yes. Don’t go there. Don’t support businesses that exploit their workers. Just because it’s legal that doesn’t make it moral. Slavery was legal as well, we got rid of that shit (mostly, still 100% legal for prisoners).
Your exact logic supports slavery. Might want to think about that.
How would I know what owner does with the tips i paid?
This factoid is, at best, disingenuous. They only have to match minimum wage across the entire pay period, which is typically two weeks long. One bad shift isn’t going to make the employer pay you more, because the other 9 shifts in the same pay period balanced it out to be just above minimum wage. But that one bad shift will be felt by the employee, who went home with less money that evening.
Or even worse, if the restaurant requires tipping out the back of house, situations can arise where the employee ends up losing money in a day. Because if you get stiffed on a big 20 person party, (which happens a lot. Every individual at the party assumes someone else tipped), then you have a massive check with no tip. But the restaurant requires that you pay a percentage of the check (not the reported tip. The total check), to the back of house staff. So if tipping out is 5%, that 20 person party took two hours, and you got stiffed on an $800 ($40 per person. Not unreasonable for a restaurant) check? You’re only making $2.13 per hour (minimum wage for tipped workers) and just had to pay the back of house staff $40 out of your own pocket. You just lost $35.74 in those two hours. Because all of your time was spent catering to that party and you only got paid $4.26 for it.
How any of this my problem?
At best tipping a moral obligation… There is no legal requirement to do so.
Also waiters seem to like this clown system…
When I relaized this, I went back to tipping 15%
If this clown behavior keeps up, it will be 10%.
Sticking that stupid device with 25% will not be tolerated.
At best tipping a moral obligation… There is no legal requirement to do so.
Ah okay, you’re the person who fails the shopping cart test. Got it. If you want to change tipping, most would agree with you. But protesting at the tip line is only hurting the wait staff. I agree that tipping has gotten out of control, and 15% should be normalized again. But I’m the type of person who has no issues with just using the “custom” line and entering my own tip.
Not for each transaction. So not tipping is like reaching over to another table and taking some of their tip for your table. They are still paid less than minimum wage for the service they provided you, but someone else’s tips will still keep them out of minimum wage for the shift.
So yes, at they’re worst they should get at least minimum wage for each shift. But per customer, their rate is below minimum wage without tipping, which is an awful system we need to get rid of.
That’s some mental gymnastics but sure, you can look at it this way.
I didn’t realize that going out to eat required me to get this involved in some shiti food joints business model and compensation structure for their staff.
Note that a lot of tips don’t even all go to the waiter… What’s your excuse for this.
I feel like “mental gymnastics” has become grossly overused, and I don’t think it applies, but regardless you are involved in the shitty food joint’s (read: all that have wait staffs that operate on tips) business model, by being their customer. By going to a business that you know pays their wait staff less that minimum wage, you are agreeing to their shitty business model. So then, not paying a tip is essentially taking a discount on your order at your wait staff’s loss. The business owner isn’t hurt by that, they still get the full rate for the food. And as long as SOME customers pay tips, they don’t have to pay any more (hence the taking from other tables comment).
It is a shitty system, but you agree to participate in it if you go to those restaurants. Which, for sit-down restaurants in the US, is most. If you go to one of those restaurants and don’t tip, you aren’t making some protest against tipping culture, and you aren’t hurting the business owner. You are only saying that the wait staff should be paid at $2.13 per hour to serve you.
Lobby against the labor laws that allow less-than-minimum for tipped employees, or don’t go to restaurants that rely on that model. Anything else, you’re just taking a discount from the wait staffs’ paychecks by not tipping.
And I absolutely can not believe that such anti-worker, pro-business owner bullshit is happening here. I cannot stress enough, you not tipping does nothing to the business owner. Billionaires jack up prices, stifle wage increases, and we’re out here complaining about having to tip a person who otherwise would get $2.13 an hour, because somehow that’s legal.
That being said, starting at 30% is ri-goddamn-diculous.
Also, since I didn’t get to your later point, I’m not sure of its relevance to what I was saying. You have no control (and usually no knowledge) of how tips are distributed. So not sure what you are expecting from me here.
You are only saying that the wait staff should be paid at $2.13 per hour to serve you.
This is not true in my state at all
They get paid base that’s above federal minimum wage.
But you are right, I ain’t got to go out to eat so barely do it anymore due to these parasitic tactics of the owners and strong feeling of entitlement from the wait staff to be tipped 20% or more.
I’m tired of this excuse. These people took the job knowing what the pay rate was, and are demanding the customer pay their salary directly rather than the employer like virtually any other conventional job does. Customers have had it, they’re being told to give employees raises along with rising food costs, even at businesses that don’t do a damn thing for the customer except maybe hand them a to-go box. 20% for that? F no. Grow a spine and demand real pay, people have had it. IDK how I can travel almost any modern place else in the world, pay for a good meal, and only have to leave the approximation of $1 or so for appreciation of the service, but in America I pay for the food and a separate charge for the employee’s “pay”.
Thrn stop going to restaurants that expect a tip. Don’t go to a restaurant and stiff your server. I spent 6 months last year living on $300 a week because people weren’t tipping at the bar i was working at. The bar is still open, but the new bartender is in the exact same position.
You don’t take a job at a restaurant or a bar because your life is doing great. You are there because you have no other options.
I don’t have a problem with tipping. I have a problem with restauranteurs taking the profits and the customer being asked for more and more tips. I can’t help people’s life situations, and I’m sure they aren’t all down on their luck any more than someone working retail. Yeah, I avoid places that expect big tips, so the servers get no tip at all instead of some tip.
In WA everyone is paid at least 16 an hour, over 20 in Seattle and in many high COL areas.
Believe it nor not, most people do not live in Washington.
Point being these fuels are local…
In my state 2.25 is not the rule, their base pay is above federal minimum wage
yeah I basically stopped going to restaurants because is screwed either way. It actually used to be something we would do but the norm became wierd and like so many things nowadays it became just drop out of participation.
Yeah, I’m not defending tipping in the US, but not tipping is only screwing over the server. You don’t end up working at a restaurant because you love it, you are there because your life is a mess and it’s closest thing you can get to a stable job. If you don’t want to tip, then don’t go out to eat.
Back in October i had a guy “leave a tip” that said “Kamala bullshit” because he was mad his double of jack and coke cost $8. I don’t set the prices, i also think it’s bullshit, but i was weeknight bartending because I couldnt find any other job.
Double JD and coke for the equivalent of 5-6 quid isn’t cheap, but it’s definitely not expensive.
yeah but that is what I meant. We did not want to keep tipping at the old norm if it was under tipping so we just stopped being in the system. I have seen the standard go from 10% to 15% to 20% and thats when we stopped. Through most of it 15 was sorta standard and 10 was like I don’t want to stiff you but our experience was not the best and 20 was like omg you were great. stiffing was like I wish I had not come out and this was a horrible crazy experience. Im really not sure the what would actually have to happen for that as it never came up but maybe doing two nazi salutes or something might cause it.
I’m paying
straight up taking money
lol, where can I find this magical money?
Servers usually have to pay in X% of their total sales to the back of house. So if you stiff me on a $90 check, i lose $3 because i still have to pay that much in. I actually had a slow night where bith tables stiffed me so i actually left the restaurant $4 poorer than when i entered. Because ihad a better night the next shift, the owner was able to average me out so that he didn’t have to pay me more than the server minimum wage.
Its unfortunately a catch 22 though because continuing to tip kinda enables it to keep happening if everyone stopped tipping then places would likely have to pay a decent wage in order to get people to work as even if you’re extremely desperate for money its still not really worth it to work for tipped minimum wage with no tips also im not sure if it applies to all places but if your compensation + tips falls below the federal minimim wage the company must pay you the difference if I am not mistaken
That’s over the course of a pay period though. So if i make $40 on a slow night, but $200 the next night, that evens out and the boss doesn’t have to pay out.
I am not defending tipping, but change will only happen from the top down. All the full time servers at the restaurant i work at are at “i cant pay my bills” level of struggling right now and we live in a super cheap area. Stiffing your server won’t end tipping, it’s just taking a meal away from them or their kids while the owner is just fine. Legislation is the only thing that will end the system, qnd that’s where the reform needs to happen.
You’re probably right. This shouldnt be an issue for the customer but it its
Yes. If you can’t afford to leave a decent tip, then don’t get the service.
If there is a magical amount of money you want to receive so you don’t get pissed off at me, just make that the price.
Avoid joints that’s “require” tipping.
Deny the parasite profit.
Maybe the restaurants should pay their employees so customers don’t have to pay them? I know it’s a radical thought.
Especially because a lot of people in this thread seem to protest the tipping system by just not tipping. That only hurts the worker, y’all. It isn’t gonna change the system.
Honestly it should be both. Restaurants should pay minimum wage at the very least and then customers should be able to tip if they want. I have no issue tipping if the server did a good job. However, I’m not going to tip bad service.
I don’t know. I don’t think people who work as servers can affect if the food is bad, or if kitchen messes up stuff… They just take your order and get your food. I’m not sure why they should also act like they like you, and you are their favorite person in the world when you come into the restaurant… :)
I know you didn’t say any of that and with good service, thats maybe not what you meant. Just wanted to say my own opinion about service… I guess I don’t expect them to be fake and I don’t like it if they are.
I can see where you are at. I mean if a server is good then im more likely to be a repeat customer so its something the owner should take into account. Maybe the whole thing should be flipped on its head and it should be treated like a sales role and they get a percent of sales.
The same goes for the cook though. If the food is good I’m more likely to come back. And the people who do the cleaning - if the restaurant is clean I’m also more likely to be a repeat customer. So perhaps let the whole team have a percent of sales.
good point.
This is the best option. I had a restaurant owner that lives in a millions of dollars home, say that raising the minimum wage would make it hard for them to survive. Okay.
I’m not going to be a dick to them. I know they can’t control what happens in the kitchen or other customers.
What I care most about is if they are reasonably attentive and nice to talk to. They don’t need to be to crazy but they also should care about my experience somewhat. Typically I tip around 15% but if the service is really bad I’ll go lower and if I feel they did exceptionally I’ll complement them and leave something closer to a 20% tip
Relevant post from earlier this month
Honestly if it starts at 30% then im 0% tipping and they can fuck right off.
I know tipping culture is extreme, but I’ve never seen 100%. I don’t think this is real.
I’ve never seen 25% until 10 years ago
I can’t find the original image, it’s just been reshared dozens of times on Xitter, Threads, Facebook and Reddit, but nobody is adding context or naming and shaming.
So yeah, probably just ragebait.
Custom: 0% HAHAFUCKYOU
Be sure to make eye contact as you type in 0.00
Custom: -100%
Infinite money glitch
Back when 15% was considered standard I liked tipping closer to 30%, but as a direct result of the push to try to make 15% seem low I no longer tip more than 15%.
My tipping follows the inverse of how much I am paying for the product. If the product is well priced and the service was good I have been known to tip 100% for excellent service. Now that everything is nearly double the cost of what it used to be I am more inclined to tip 50 cents to a dollar max.
They should be paying exceptionally well for what they are charging, but we know that isn’t the case. I don’t have unlimited wealth to spend either, fuck me for being poor and wanting some comfort “restaurant” food occasionally.
The food prices went up 20% so my logic is if I continue to tip the same % the waiters should still make more money. Increasing the food prices and also doubling the tip is just double dipping. My work isn’t paying me 20% more every year so I can’t be paying for everyone’s inflation.
Exactly, and the only thing they have is increasing the guilt factor. But they’re gonna learn when put up against a cliff and a little guilt trip I’m just gonna take the guilt.
All you are doing is punishing some poor server who has no control of the price. The owner who is actually fucking both you and the staff over is unaffected.
I’m punishing them by giving them what was until 10 years ago considered an excellent and standard tip?
Not to mention that servers are, as a general group, extremely opposed to dismantling the tip system as a whole. My complaint wasn’t about raised food prices, which the owner would be in control of - it was about raised tipping percentage expectations. I refuse to contribute to the steadily rising expectation of how much a tip should be, and regret my past contributions to that trend.
Rent has gone up a lot more than 15% in the past decade. The whole system is rotten and needs to be abolished, but all the servers i know are absolutely struggling right now and depend on getting a 20% tip on each table. How would you feel if half your paychecks were randomly 25% less? Stop going to restaurants that expect a tip by all means, but if you are going somewhere that expects it, you should tip.
15 is the percent of the tip, not the percent increase in tip income over the last decade. If the tip percentage stays constant, then the tip amount rises in direct proportion to the food cost. The fair comparison is rent increase vs. restaurant food price increase. The data I found indicates rent’s gone up at an average of 4% per year in the last decade, and that restaurant food prices have risen by a similar amount - anywhere from 3-7% depending on the industry.
Everyone is struggling. It is not unique to servers. And I do tip - just a reasonable 15%. If a server is struggling to get by on 15% tips, they should harass their boss and their senator, not their customers who are likely struggling as well.
Don’t pretend they have no control. They could band together and refuse to play by the restaurant’s rules. Things would change pretty quickly.
So could you and your coworkers, but restaurant owners are the sleazist, scummiest, and greediest business owners in your community guaranteed. A restaurant in my town had the entire staff fired and the restaurant closed for a month because the owner would rather miss out on a month of business than pay a fair wage.
The issue with tipping is an issue with capitalism.
It is capitalism that has ruined nice things. Imagine the first person who tipped someone because their service was good and it was a nice thing to do. Next other people started doing it as well, which makes the profession with tipping more favorable.
This leads to a higher supply of workers and lower demand and the market adjusts which means lower pay because “they will receive tips”.
Also it is easy to vilify the shop owners for doing something that the system encourages and even demands them. We don’t know how or in what ways the shop owners are suffering because of the system.
Also to acknowledge their suffering is not to say that their suffering is equal to the suffering of their workers but rather we need to identify that everybody suffers in capitalism (except the very rich/elites).
The way to fix this is to stop tipping altogether. This will hurt the workers for sure but their suffering is necessary in order for things to change, at least under the current system.
Or alternatively, we can try and abolish the system altogether.
“There’s no way to prevent this” - Says the only country where this happens regularly.
It’s not a “Capitalism” problem. It’s a USA problem.
I’d say both. You guys just did a speed run.
I mean, tipping culture only seems to be a problem in the US. Countries in Europe and what have you are fine and they are still capitalist.
Those countries weren’t founded by slavers…
Sure tipping for things may not be applicable in eu. But here’s another example: imagine the first person who got a loan cuz they wanted to buy a house but didn’t have the money at the time.
The bank who lent the money did a nice thing. Other banks and people started doing the same. And because people had access to more money, the price of houses increased to match with it.
Despite the fact that those people don’t actually have that money and now it is a requirement. Nobody can afford to buy a house unless they go into debt. Again this is capitalism and the free market in action.
The reason tipping so “people can have livable wage” is not a thing in the EU is because the EU does have a livable minimum wage.
The concept of minimum wage is inherently anti-capitalistic. It is against the principles of free market.
So the answer isn’t simply “Abolish capitalism” the answer is actually “Capitalism but with logical rules and regulations”
Lol, what?
I am literally talking about how much suffering it would cause if we keep trying to “fix capitalism” with bandage after bandage and how each and everything would need fixing which will turn into something not capitalistic anyways.
I don’t want to be rude but people should have better reading comprehension and learn to read between the lines or just read i guess.
So the “easier” solution is to tear the entire thing down and make something new from scratch? Seems like it’d be far, far harder to do that
Hey I know this is completely off-topic, but do you have thoughts on the moral implications of NATO?
That’s an immediate $0.
Tip 1% whenever they dont offer a realistic choice
I always tip under 20% if they start with 20%…
These clowns ain’t gonna shame me, I got none
Custom: 0%
Every time.
If they give me the No Tip option, I usually tip a little bit. But fuck off with this idea that you should be tipped. It helps no one.
