• AlmightySnoo 🐢🇮🇱🇺🇦@lemmy.world
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    10 months ago

    Patients in hospitals, either ill or injured, are a protected class under the Geneva Conventions.

    Again, not a clear-cut issue. You cannot extrapolate a few lines from the Geneva Convention with your own definitions of what constitutes a “patient”. So again, since this misinformation is being repeated, I find it only fair to quote a few passages on why that is, at least, debatable and why it is still indeed very important to add that the 3 killed were terrorists, were carrying guns and were planning a terrorist attack.

    The Geneva Convention provides guidelines for the medical treatment of enemy wounded and sick, as well as prisoners of war. However, there are no comparable provisions for the treatment of terrorists, who can be termed unlawful combatants or unprivileged belligerents.

    (there wouldn’t be an article about it if it was an obvious question: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19998085/ )

    Qualifying as wounded or sick in the context of international humanitarian law requires the fulfilment of two cumulative criteria: a person must require medical care and must refrain from any act of hostility. In other words the legal status of being wounded or sick is based on a person’s medical condition and conduct.

    (https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/en/ihl-treaties/gci-1949/article-12/commentary/2016 )

    Being an active terrorist member of Hamas and Islamic Jihad, carrying at least one gun, planning a terrorist attack, and very likely committing perfidy by hiding as civilians in a hospital, all of that is certainly NOT “refraining from any act of hostility”. You’re free to consider to more generally moral debate on whether it’s okay to assassinate terrorists hiding in a hospital, but it’s wrong and misleading to make the Geneva Convention say what it clearly doesn’t say at all.

    What would have clearly defended the terrorists’ right to care would have been if they surrendered and left Hamas. But in the absence of that, it’s, at best, still debatable whether the First Geneva Convention defends those terrorists right to hide as civilians in a hospital to “receive care” or not.

    With all this said, yes, it is very much indeed misinformation to maliciously leave out the fact that the 3 killed were Hamas and Islamic Jihad terrorists.

    • jordanlund@lemmy.worldM
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      10 months ago

      “shall be respected in ALL INSTANCES”. This absolutely is a clear cut issue.

      • HappycamperNZ@lemmy.world
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        10 months ago

        If you had the full section, yes.

        You missed the part where a patient refrains from all acts of hostility (Hamas one wasnt), and terrorists don’t qualify at patients (two jihadists). Otherwise i could break a leg, admit myself to hospital and be free to plan and act upon anything I wanted.

        Those who fall under the protection are protected in all situations. Active combatants and terrorists don’t fall under the protection of the convention.

      • AlmightySnoo 🐢🇮🇱🇺🇦@lemmy.world
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        10 months ago

        It’s not when they themselves require “the fulfilment of two cumulative criteria: a person must require medical care and must refrain from any act of hostility.

        Again, since you’re fully confident in this, go ask the journal to retract the article I linked to. Show them how they should read the Geneva Convention, that it “shouldn’t be a debate” and that it shouldn’t even require an article.

          • HappycamperNZ@lemmy.world
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            10 months ago

            Being in a hospital bed doesn’t make you a non combatant - like other poster said, it’s also what you are doing from that bed.

            • jordanlund@lemmy.worldM
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              10 months ago

              CNN just stated that according to the hospital, he was sleeping when he was killed.

              • HappycamperNZ@lemmy.world
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                10 months ago

                In the nicest way possible- irrelevant. Doesnt matter if you were awake any more than falling asleep on watch.

                • jordanlund@lemmy.worldM
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                  10 months ago

                  I admit to a certain personal bias having just spent 4 days in 2 hospitals, it’s hard to be planing military action when you have tubes running in and out.

                  This guy was apparently recovering from shrapnel injuries. He wasn’t actively being a threat to anyone.

                  (caution - GRAPHIC photos)

                  https://www.reuters.com/world/this-is-moment-israeli-commandos-disguised-palestinians-walked-into-jenin-2024-01-30/

                  “Niji Nazzal, the hospital’s medical director, told Reuters the three were executed as they slept, shot in the head with silenced pistols in the room where they were being treated.”

                  “Hospital sources said one of the three, Basel Al-Ghazzawi, had been paralysed when he was wounded by shrapnel during a clash between Israeli forces and Palestinian militants in October, and was in a wheelchair.”

                  • HappycamperNZ@lemmy.world
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                    10 months ago

                    Yes, it would be difficult with tubes running out of you - but not every hospital visit requires that.

                    This would be a much clearer issue if we had security footage of the exact moment they were killed, what was in the room, and what reaction each had. Unfortunately what we have looks like a sterilized room (evidence, not germ) and general statements that aren’t lining up - little blood stains for three people killed by gunfire, nothing in the room except shoes (no bags, clothes, medical equipment apart from the bed including the supposed wheelchair he was in or supposed firearms), and shot by silenced pistols when the team went in with assault rifles?

                    I mean, at the end of the day we probably won’t get the full story, thats up to international courts. But fuck there’s alot of misinformation and blatant incorrect statements.

                    Oh, and sorry to hear about your hospital stay - hope you aren’t in a user pays system.

    • HappycamperNZ@lemmy.world
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      10 months ago

      Oh look - links to the act, information provided in a clear and balanced way, and discussed without insults and posturing is downvoted to shit yet buh, warcrime is pushed to the top. Me thinks there is a bias.

      • AlmightySnoo 🐢🇮🇱🇺🇦@lemmy.world
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        10 months ago

        is downvoted to shit

        You should take those counts with a grain of salt, and they shouldn’t mean anything in principle since we have no Karma here. I caught someone making two accounts just yesterday to downvote everything on my profile. Lemmy has a clear vote manipulation problem and some are clearly weaponizing it to try to hide some stories from those who filter by “Hot”, like for instance this story which literally got censored by the bot downvotes: https://lemmy.world/post/10789603

        • HappycamperNZ@lemmy.world
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          10 months ago

          I know it means nothing as both there is no karma and they are worthless, but misinformation and lies still carry weight based on what people believe others think.

          If we want a community where facts and evidence are supported we need to be supportive of those that provide facts and skeptical of those that throw out emotive language and half truths.