I don’t know about y’all, but if I grew up in a country that never has the news criticizing its leaders, I’d be very skepical and deduce that there is censorshop going on and the offical news could be exaggerated or entirely falsified. Do people in authoritarian countries actually just eat the propaganda? To what extent do they believe the propaganda?

  • the_q@lemm.ee
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    199
    arrow-down
    5
    ·
    3 days ago

    No one, including you, is immune to propaganda.

    • devx00@infosec.pub
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      94
      arrow-down
      3
      ·
      edit-2
      3 days ago

      I try and explain this to people all the time but many don’t want to believe it.

      There are 2 types of people in this world; those who are influenced by propaganda, and those who don’t know they are influenced by propaganda.

      • dontbelasagne@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        6
        ·
        1 day ago

        Most of hollywood is propaganda. It relies on getting revenue from other sources. If you’ve ever bought a star wars action figure or a marvel funko pop, you’ve fallen for the propaganda. Hollywood isn’t producing art for art’s sake. They’re producing commercials for merchandise.

      • over_clox@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        12
        arrow-down
        77
        ·
        3 days ago

        There’s a third type. People like me see the propaganda everywhere, get a sad laugh out of it every time, and go about my day dodging rain drops and replacing alternators.

        IDGAF

        • Opinionhaver@feddit.uk
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          85
          arrow-down
          2
          ·
          3 days ago

          Toupee fallacy. Just because you can recognize some of the propaganda, it doesn’t mean you can recognize all of it. You’re not aware of what flies under the radar while still influencing you.

          • over_clox@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            5
            arrow-down
            61
            ·
            3 days ago

            I don’t have anything influencing me except my roommate and my mom, and that’s usually just helping keep their vehicles running, carrying groceries, taking the trash out, and bathing the dog.

            I see the politics and propaganda every day, I just don’t give a fuck. Nothing I can do about it anyways.

            • JeSuisUnHombre@lemm.ee
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              89
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              3 days ago

              Ah so you’ve fallen for the propaganda that says you don’t have the power to change anything, that’s just what the small number of elites want the large number of masses to think

              • over_clox@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                4
                arrow-down
                32
                ·
                3 days ago

                I’ve helped the NSA return stolen laptops, and risked my life putting out a forest fire with my hoodie before it got a chance to reach the dead grass field.

                Of course there’s things I can and have done to help change the world, but politics ain’t quite my thing.

                • JeSuisUnHombre@lemm.ee
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  47
                  ·
                  3 days ago

                  You’re contradicting yourself my dude. You give enough of a fuck to help people. Doing things for your community is a political action. Maybe you just haven’t gotten the chance to understand your political leanings

            • Nougat@fedia.io
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              27
              ·
              3 days ago

              So you’ve been propagandized into thinking there’s nothing you can do, so you shouldn’t care.

        • devx00@infosec.pub
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          41
          arrow-down
          3
          ·
          3 days ago

          Bold of you to assume you recognize every piece of propaganda for what it truly is. And that you have a choice to just ignore it. It often feels like we are in control of what we give attention to and what we choose to retain as factual knowledge but we’re not.

          The best we can do is try to recognize when some piece of information, or source, we believe may not be as valid as it once appeared and try to rectify our beliefs moving forward. It’s a never ending job. But if you want to actually have beliefs based in fact there’s no other option.

          • over_clox@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            9
            arrow-down
            33
            ·
            edit-2
            3 days ago

            I believe in mathematics and schematics. I also believe in the right to repair.

            I do not believe in invisible deities and I don’t trust most politicians.

            Edit: And I damn sure don’t trust AI!

            • TeamAssimilation@infosec.pub
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              39
              arrow-down
              2
              ·
              3 days ago

              Those are like the most superficial layer of propaganda. The real danger of propaganda is that it doesn’t look like it, it looks like other regular people making you support their interests without you realizing it.

              Do you like engines? Do you dislike electric vehicles? Do you like guns? If so, when and where did those ideas come from? You weren’t born with them.

              • over_clox@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                6
                arrow-down
                23
                ·
                edit-2
                3 days ago

                The real propaganda is money.

                Like, whoever designed the idea of rent (which is basically a safe place to perform the biological function of sleep and store your stuff).

                You don’t own a damn thing anymore, nor do I. But for real, whoever invented the concept of rent, invented the concept of taxing humans for the right to sleep in a safe space.

                Edit: Do you own the dirt under your feet?

                Didn’t think so.

        • cmhe@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          4
          ·
          2 days ago

          If you see propaganda everywhere, the it was successful on you. One purpose of propaganda is to erode the fundamental trust in society and sow distrust about anything and anyone, that way people become politically ineffective and easy to manipulate.

          • over_clox@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            3
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            2 days ago

            I don’t have any significant distrust in society in general, just a heavy distrust of the greedy oligarchs in positions of power.

            Meanwhile, the orange turd posted an AI generated image of himself as the next pope…

            https://youtube.com/watch?v=5AvLxeTvivY

            Go ahead and read some comments there, he done offended even the atheists out there!

            I’m not a governor, attorney, judge, senator, etc in any position to directly do anything about the crooked powers in charge, but as a citizen, I guess this is the best I can do, share the news.

    • throwawayacc0430@sh.itjust.worksOP
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      24
      ·
      3 days ago

      I mean, honestly, I’m questioning if anything my parents told me is even real, or is it just exaggerated to make themselves seem like great parents in order to diminish my view on their toxicity.

      It’s hard to distinguish between what’s a genuine doubt from a conspiracy theory.

      That’s the thing with people.

      Some have zero skepticism, and believe everything they see.

      Others are overly skeptical and distrusts everything, including science.

      It’s hard to find the right balance.

      • Libra00@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        12
        ·
        3 days ago

        I find the right balance (for me) to be actively seeking out conversations that challenge my beliefs and worldview, being open to being wrong, and developing a good bullshit detector. I guess growing up during the Cold War helped instill in me a fair amount of distrust for authority of any kind helped. Even still I believed the propaganda about the US being a beacon of freedom and democracy until I was exposed to the truth of the matter, but still, I sought out counter-narratives and listened to the weight of evidence and was willing to admit to being wrong and changing my views, so… shrug

        • skulblaka@sh.itjust.works
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          1 day ago

          Yes, but, how does one actually develop “a good bullshit detector”? We all think we have one of those. Especially people who don’t. And thinking that when it’s not true is the hook, line and sinker that gets people deeply into dangerous conspiracies.

          • Libra00@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            edit-2
            9 hours ago

            The first step is not accepting everything you read at face value. Start investigating the claims you see on the news or social media and you will develop a sense for which ones tend to be bullshit and which ones tend not to be, you will learn to recognize the bullshit ideas not because they’re obviously bullshit at first, but because they’re surrounded by the kind of language that bullshit claims are often smuggled into. It’s just pattern-matching, it’s a skill like everything else and you can practice it and get better. One way to do this is to just find a news article, scroll to a random point in it, highlight a sentence that makes a truth claim about something, and go ‘That seems like bullshit, I’ll look for corroborating sources’ even if you’re sure it’s true. Then go do find 3-4 other sources that talk about the same thing and see how they shade things differently. Aside from learning to match the pattern you also learn which sources are more or less reliable, more or less biased, etc. A good tool for this specifically for news is GroundNews, every article they show includes ratings for how biased the source is, a list of other sources that also report on the same incident and what their biases are, etc. Plus it’s been my experience that looking at things from several angles is kind of like drawing a bunch of lines that pass near the point of truth - the more lines you draw, the narrower the space in which the truth must reside, so the easier it is to find the center.

            The second and perhaps most important step is being willing to be wrong, especially in public. Be concerned not about whether or not you will look bad but whether or not you are putting good information out there. Develop the habit of stopping in the middle of your political rant or whatever and going ‘Wait, am I sure about this? I should check.’ In a similar vein, get into the habit of providing sources for your own claims, even if only because that reinforces the habit of checking yourself. I discuss politics a lot online and have often found myself going ‘Oh yeah, well <this> is how the world really works!’, then I go looking for a source to cite and discover that I was wrong. Don’t flee from that uncomfortable feeling, swallow your pride and embrace it. The more you get into the habit of checking yourself the easier it becomes to remember to check others too, and again, the more familiar you become with what truth and bullshit look like from the inside and from the outside. It will also help you develop a bit of humility, which is unrelated but still a good thing to have.

            Also on the subject of sources, look for authoritative sources first. If you’re investigating a claim about vaccines making people sick, for example, don’t look for news articles about it; go straight to the CDC where they have data about adverse incident rates for vaccines that is publicly available. When you hear about something that happened in a particular place check the local newspapers first because they’re likely to have picked up the story before anyone else and are more committed to providing accurate information that’s relevant to locals than the national media, they tend to sensationalize stories less. This isolates you somewhat from some of the more egregious bias and spin out there.

    • kambusha@sh.itjust.works
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      9
      ·
      3 days ago

      Up until recently, I thought carrots were good for seeing in the dark. It’s something my mother told me over and over as a kid. I never bothered to research it - I liked carrots after all.