Note that I’m not necessarily opposed to her facing consequences for killing him – my issue is with how gleefully NYPost is framing it as if she just attacked him out of the blue and shoehorning her into the “evil transgenders” stereotype
Here’s a news source with an account of what allegedly happened. Of course nothing has been proven in court yet.
According to the charges, Hodge was at the store’s sandwich counter when Cruz cut in line, leading a dispute between the pair. After a witness separated them, Cruz allegedly went into their bag while Hodge’s back was turned, retrieved a knife and threatened him with it.
Prosecutors said Cruz then allegedly threw a plastic bottle at Hodge before lunging at him, stabbing him multiple times in the chest, neck, and arms. After a struggle in which Hodge attempted to wrestle the weapon away from her, he collapsed. A witness reported hearing Cruz remark: “He deserved it.”
Hodges was rushed to Harlem Hospital, where he was pronounced dead.
“This alleged broad-daylight stabbing shook the neighborhood, including the deli workers and customers who witnessed the attack,” said District Attorney Bragg. “My thoughts are with those grieving the loss of Ray Hodge, a postal worker and beloved father of two.”
After her arrest, Cruz reportedly admitted to police that she stabbed Hodge with a knife she carried for “protection.” Cruz also allegedly referred to Hodge as a racial slur.
Not sounding good.
“He rolls up his sleeves, and then he hits my client, and every time he approaches her, she backs up. And he approaches her again, she backs up until she’s all the way at the refrigerator and then when he’s still berating her and calling her a f**got and a tranny, she spat at him,” Schuman said. “You can see on the video that she’s saying to him, leave me alone. But he doesn’t leave her alone. He attacks her again.”
So there is an alleged video with contradicts a lot of what the witnesses say. I’d be cautious of defending this one. If it turns out that the lawyer is just exaggerating an unclear video, youre probably going to get tricked into defending an awful person. Again.
Cruz (the stabber) plead guilty.
The stabbing isn’t the question, the question is whether it was self defense or murder.
Is this something that just happened? The article I linked says she admits she stabbed him, but pleads not guilty to the charge of murder, I believe on the grounds of self defense. Considering New York’s typical (extremely hostile) stance on self defense pleas I’d be surprised if the judge agrees though.
Its insane how every single trans and queer person is expected to be perfect law abiding citizens or suddenly the act of being Queer makes you a murderer. They used the same justification during the Holocaust to murder Jews and they’re using the justification to murder Palestinians.
If she’d strangled a homeless person in the subway instead, she’d be a national hero.
Here is CBS’s coverage of the event:
A deli worker told CBS News New York that Hodge was ordering a sandwich when a woman at the counter got angry and began arguing with him over who was first in line to order. According to the deli worker, in that instant, the woman pulled out a knife and stabbed Hodge in the stomach. USPS confirmed Hodge was a letter carrier assigned to Manhattan.
It appears to have started over a dispute over who was first in line. It’s up to you to decide if that’s a rational reason to attack someone with a knife, regardless of your sexuality / gender identity.
https://www.cbsnews.com/newyork/news/usps-worker-stabbed-to-death-in-harlem/
In this version nobody attacked her.
Ny post is still anti -trans regardless
Yeah, this is a tabloid. In a decent world people running tabloids would be imprisoned or doing thousands of hours of community service.
Does this mean they’ll put “cisgender” in the title for all the other criminals?
People need to stop picking sides and in groups. If people are mistreating you it doesn’t really matter what group you belong in as that’s more just for personal identification and doesn’t help the situation at all to defend based on sides.
Ehh, no one here will care when our identity is all we think that matters. But this just further divides the groups and continues the work of the assholes that think it useful to do so.
Tell me you’re privileged without telling me you’re privileged
Yeah I am not. I don’t have the privilege and never have to stab my attackers and they get away with being seen as good people despite the trauma I am left with. I’m a member of the LGBTQ community and was sexually assaulted by 2 partners and a parent.
You just don’t like people disagreeing with your point of view so you decide you know who they are to justify thinking they must be a person you dismiss.
Shame I asked for community and good treatment of others.
Transphobe bigot: attacks trans woman for being trans, in a clear case of hate crime
Lemmy bazinga brains: “guys let’s just stop picking sides”
That is not what happened. Literally please one of the many recaps or article links about this person that cut in line then stabbed the person that called them out for it and not just headlines and assume you understand everything.
cut in line then stabbed the person
I’ve actually read it, you’re missing the part where the reaction to cutting a line was a slur against trans people, and the part where the dead guy literally started physically assaulting the one with the knife.
The US is literally in a descent to fascism, killing overtly violent and transphobe individuals is a good thing
Very clearly then we are both continuing to misconstrue the event as you are also leaving out important parts of the news article. It was a nasty back and forth and unpleasant on both sides. Involving spitting and punching but one person was stabbed 14 times over it and the one doing it has done so 5 times before.
People were not being good to each other here and I do not feel either side needs my sympathy but the side still alive will need to accept repurcusions of killing another person for their actions and they don’t need our cheering.
Fight fascism don’t fight on behalf of those that don’t need protection. This won’t help us.
You missed the part where Cruz called Hodges a racial slur after he cut in front of Hodges in line.
Defending Cruz just because he’s trans, even though he plead guilty, is fascist in and of itself.
Stop making excuses for shitty behavior. You’re in a descent into fascism, it looks like.
Cruz is She, Hodge is He. Think you got them backwards.
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Not sure why the perpetrator being trans was important enough to put in the title, considering it didn’t seem to have anything to do with the crime…
It maybe had a little bit of something to do with the slurs? If the other participant wasn’t trans, then I think the guy would’ve probably used different insults, probably not racial slurs, idk for sure though. Not sure, but I feel as though she’d probably have reacted in a similar manner. But the reason they put it in the title, is because the NY Post wants people to feel like trans people are dangerous. They’ve been targeting trans girls for a while now, especially with the bathroom bullshit, shameful.
that’s breitbart level of misinformation right here
467 upvotes, lemmy. Congrats, you’re as full of shit as right wingers.
You know something is up when they state that they are transgender when it bears no meaning to the actual article. This would be the same as “Gay man murdered people” the point is bigotry.
the article skips why, but it is actually extremely relevant…
Cruz’s attorney claimed his client, a transgender woman, lashed out against Hodges because the 36-year-old postal worker had made a slur “about her gender identity.”
….
Cruz claimed that Hodges had ridiculed her with homophobic remarks and struck her several times before she pulled a knife and fatally stabbed him.
She showed no remorse for her actions when interviewed by detectives at the 28th Precinct in Harlem.“I hope he’s maggot food,” Cruz told detectives, according to court documents. “I killed him laughing. Oh, well. I’ll piss on his grave.”.
Hodges had struck Cruz at least three times during the deli fight before she stabbed him, she claimed.“I told him, ‘You come to me and I’ll kill you,’” Cruz told investigators. “No motherf—ers are going to put their hands on me no more.
“He tried to mess with me because I’m trans, and I poked him up,” Cruz said.
In a world where cis men have been deemed not guilty for murdering trans people just because they couldn’t tell until they got to the sex, there is no way I’d hold a trans person guilty of murder for defending themselves from an ongoing assault that very well could have escalated to a murder against her.
The story seems to be all over the place so it’s hard to piece together.
Getting in a fight over who’s first for a sandwich though and her comments afterwards make her seem like she was looking for an opportunity for something like this.
the dude started attacking her in a full on hate crime…
if anyone starts attacking me in a sandwich shop, i am going for maximum damage… i’m not going to just hope they’ll stop attacking me, i will do my best to make it not possible for them to attack (although leaving is the first choice… if i can’t, i’m hurting them).
she has zero remorse, but i don’t imagine it’s the first time she’s been attacked for being trans.
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If a WASP with a trump shrine and 20 guns has mental health issues and kills 4 people it’s mental health issues.
If anyone not fitting the conservative mold, even if they have mental health issues, kills people it’s about their differences from the mold that come first. “Mental health” might get a one line mention at the bottom of the article.
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My comment was regarding how the press, the Post in particular, handle crimes if they can get more views by making it about lgbtq. I had no intent to offer an unqualified diagnosis of the person in the OP article.
That’s my point, gender has no relation to violent crimes, bringing it up in the headline is just bigoted
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This might be an important detail to put in the post, but in the headline? It makes no sense past bigotry
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I agree, OP makes it out like it wasn’t an extreme act of violence, even though it did start as self defence.
it did start as self defence.
Was the mailman armed? If not i can’t really frame stabbing someone with a knife as self-defense.
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The real story is “Mentally Ill Person with a History of Knife Crime Stabs Mail Carrier in Fight”
To the people who consider them being trans headline-worthy, “trans person” and “mentally-ill person” are synonyms.
Yeah, you hardly ever hear Christian gunman kills X children at school.
Violently homosexual man brutalizes innocent bystander in gay rage.
You gotta mention that the innocent bystanders are straight, or else conservatives won’t know whether to feel sorry for them or be happy they were attacked.
Innocent God fearing all American red blooded heterosexual bystanders.
Ahh the good ole broken post
Can’t really expect better from that rag
You don’t shoot two mags into someone out of self defense and you don’t stab someone 14 times out of self defense. But hey, it’s not like she had committed knife crimes 5 times before that.
She cut in line, he yelled slurs, she spat, he punched and then she stabbed him to death. And then proceeded to tell people she would do it again and was glad he died. Yeah, you’re kind of a shitty person for this.
Punch the guy, stun gun the guy, pepper spray the guy, you have my blessing and support. You don’t fucking kill someone.
The entire media campaign surrounding this is also despicable: For one group, she is the living embodiment of the ebul trans people, who are all just men in disguise trying to molest kids, for another group she is a brave, yet innocent bean who should be totally acquitted. Both groups are morons.
IMHO, she should serve a long ass sentence.
Yeah the fact that she is transgender has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that she murdered someone, the only reason the press is including that fact is to stir up drama, hate, and ad revenue. It’s pretty despicable, but I have come to expect nothing more from the press. There is no such thing as an honourable news reporter these days, just gossip columnists.
My read on it is that they’re intentionally cross wiring it to blur the issue and attach a negative colloquialism to trans people. This is part of how a group becomes considered untermensch by our illustriously imbecilic regime. If I was trans I would gtfo the country now, no joke. This is some goebbels-type shit, so you know it’s probably Steven Miller’s idea, that fucking psychotic dweeb
Aha. “cross wiring”. It’s not sexism or racism or a bigoted hate crime, it’s just “cross wiring”
Cross wiring, as in to, use preexisting hatred or fear of a subclass to apply it to another one. Such as fear of mentally I’ll murderers into fear of trans or hatred of pedophiles to attach it to multiple groups in the past years. It helps people to justify what should be immediately recognizable as sexism or racism or bigotry.
That feels easy reading comprehension and you are in a desire to be angry to avoid the obvious conotation to yell that people are not using words you like. Its not productive to you or others or conversation
It was self defense though, not murder. Seems like she just got carried away with defending herself instead of being killed. It’s a kill or be killed world out there.
You don’t get to claim self-defense in an altercation you started and escalated. Or I guess you can try, but you’re gonna have a bad time
That’s wild.
It doesn’t matter who started it, if you’re afraid for your life, I think you have the right to defend your life.
If you escalate it, you will eventually get into a point where you fear for your life, so then literally every conflict you can then claim self defense.
I think that’s what cops do.
And should we support cops for doing that?
don’t shoot two mags into someone out of self defense and you don’t stab someone 14 times out of self defense.
I work in a trauma ward. It’s not unusual to see people get stabbed dozens of times, whether it’s self defense or not. People who get stabbed don’t get dropped like a gun shot wound victim, they bleed out.
So more often or not if there’s a confrontation with a knife people will keep stabbing until the person stops being a threat, which can take a while.
Yeah it’s not like the movies, people don’t just fall over when they’re grazed by a blade or pistol-caliber bullet. If all I had was a knife to defend myself against an attacker I would choose “keep stabbing until they stop moving” even if that looks worse to juries. Better than being shot in the back trying to run.
Technically you aren’t allowed to stab until they stop moving, just until they are no longer a threat. Stab em in the leg and run. Self defence isn’t a license to kill it’s a way to not go to jail if killing was literally the option available.
Yeah she did a dick move then escalated into murder with 0 remorse. Life without parole.
Wait it’s self defense though, and not murder.
What people are trying to say, and that is clearly going way over your head, is that this was NOT self defense.
No need to be a dick. I get that you’re frustrated, and that’s okay. Being a dick, though, that’s on you.
But my point of being facetious is to point out the dishonesty or heavy bias in framing it as murder, when the discussion really is all about whether or not it was self defense.
People are loudly saying how punishment should be, or taking things out of context or loading the presentation emotionally with other circumstances. All of which are intellectually dishonest and jumping the gun. Everyone’s welcome to their opinions, but we all need to try to focus more on constructive discussion, rather than infighting over a news story because nobody can stay on the actual topic, resulting in everybody being frustrated and arguing about different things.
The subject is, “self defense or not?”
Obviously, you and I differ on our opinions, but we have also neither gone over all the evidence nor even discussed what evidence or suspicions we have. So saying your equally uniformed opinion is going over my head is not just rude and self centered, but it’s also… Potentially just wrong.
So in the theme of olive branches and keeping it mature and civil:
I say it could have been self defense because she was being beaten by a guy bigger than her who was throwing out hate speech.
You say it was not self defense because…?
she was being beaten by a guy bigger than her
No, he was smaller.
who was throwing out hate speech.
Not punishable by death in the land of the free last time i checked.
You’re right she was taller…
But after reading many articles, it still sounds like self defense to me. It sounds like two people got into a petty altercation, and hate speech amplified emotions greatly. I don’t know if you know, but trans women are VERY often victims of abuse and murder simply for being trans.
And going off the guy’s hate speech AND throwing the first punches, and that she gave him a final warning while supposedly backed into a corner, it sounds like she came out on top and went a little crazy over it.
Honestly, if I were in her situation and a guy cut in front of me and started calling me hate speech AND started attacking me, I would be both furious and terrified. I’m not nearly as abused as she was, but after going over what still feels like incomplete facts, I really don’t blame her. My issue lies with the quick condemnation voices of her, here, and the heavy bias it feels like it stems from.
Like I could very well be wrong, but judging by everybody who wants blood here being shockingly belligerent, I’m approaching with caution and skepticism.
Maybe you have a source of facts that I’m not aware of that you could share?
The same sources as everyone else.
She started it, she’s bigger than him, she escalated it, she drew a knife, she has priors with knife-related incidents, she showed no remorse. You trying to defend her seems like trans exceptionalism. Trans are people, so there are good trans people and bad trans people. You can guess which option prevails in these comments.
Yeah but this just makes her a shitty human, there was no need to mention they were trans.
To be fair: once self-defense “kicks in” (in any case, not just this one), one should empty two mags if it is what it takes to make the threat stop. or feel like it stopped.
That’s the thing about self defense, you don’t get to decide how much is too much, if you are on the receiving end. All you get to do is NOT make it something your victim decides to implement in the first place.
Imma be honest: if you reload after dumping the first mag into someone, it’s getting into manslaughter territory.
Self defense is also (at least in Germany, don’t know how it’s handled in the Land of the Castle Doctrine) about a measured response. Using a weapon after feeling your life is in danger: A-okay. Bashing someone’s skull in repeatedly after they stopped being a threat: not so okay. The police shooting an attacker three times in the chest: A-okay. Dumping two mags into someone: definitely not okay.
yeah most states have a “stopped being a threat” point; I posit it is probably common to see someone not used to fighting to not know when the threat really stops in addition to the adrenaline thing.
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this case for sure. but thats the point about initiation of “self defense.” you lose the choice after you make it go that far. tip: don’t fight.
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i don’t disagree. i was simply defending legitimate self defense.
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Holy shit she emptied two mags into him and then stabbed him 14 times and then claimed self defense? That’s actually insane.
No. She just stabbed him. I said that as an example.
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Think about all the transphobes who will now see trans people as violent and callous. If this has any effect, it’ll increase the likelihood of violent attacks.
Which in increase the likelihood of more sensationalist “news”…
Which will up the likelihood of self defense. Gotta defend myself against being murdered. Even if it means kill or be killed.
It’s almost like the media has twisted all of this to inspire infighting to distract from other problems. Like the incoming lawless fascism state that’s going to further twist all facts and reporting to use conformity to delete anything and anyone they don’t like or threatens their power.
If only transgender people killed everyone they interacted with, there wouldn’t be any transphobia /s
Grow up. She’s a murderer and deserves to rot in jail.
Next time they wont spit, they’ll escalate further ti avoid retaliation
Damn. I gotta up my self defense game then. She’s a paragon.
ITT: propaganda successfully vilifying trans people as a group and idiots gobbling it up
Ask yourself why the news never specifies criminals gender identities unless it’s one of the scapegoats.
Nothing will meaningfully improve until the rich fear for their lives
I doubt they framed the dude who chocked the homeless man to death on the subway as a “disgusting human being”
Upstanding heterosexual cisgendered male citizen forced to take homeless bum’s life in deadly subway altercation.
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When you’re being assaulted and have no way of knowing whether they’re going to kill you for being trans (something you know happens with alarming frequency), why would you show remorse for defending yourself against a violent, “pure evil” bigot?
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NY Post is staffed by scumbag shitheads.
Exactly, and if they stopped “reporting” things this way they’d go out of business and their horrible customers would probably make something even worse more popular.
Yea, as awful as the NY Post is for framing it this way, this ain’t about them being trans. She bought a knife, wanted to stab someone, picked a fight and continually escalated (she fucking spat on him, sorry but bodily fluids are an assault and the dude had every right to treat it as being hit) until she pulled a knife in an encounter she started.
Got hit three times before pulling a knife? Just cuz she was too fucking slow to stab him after the first hit like she wanted to.
Can’t believe there’s people defending this.
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I’m guessing that people are defending transgenders in general and this shitbait NY post article frames it in. Away that isn’t too far off from insinuating that all trans are “pure evil”.
Hell, “trans” shouldn’t have been in the headline as it is of no consequence to what happened. Whatever the reason for the incident, she didn’t stab the guy because she’s trans. One human stabbed another, that one was trans or black or green for all I care doesn’t matter and it is very hard not to feel that this bit was added just to sow division amongst people
it’s a dogwhistle. they’re implying that trans people are mentally ill and that the postal worker is a victim of inaction with or indulgence in the trans population.
It’s the same reason why all the chuds started banging out about how violent trans people/leftists are when that trans man (
if i remember correctlyi did) shot up a school a year or so ago.despite the fact that the overwhelming amount of school shooters are cis right wing incels
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Duh, because it’s the NY Post. They are trash. That’s why most comments have even been prefacing statements about the defendant talking about how shitty the Post is.
She bought a knife, wanted to stab someone
Sorry, but when a “news” journal is that deep into batshit clickbait propaganda, you can’t use other articles written by them as a source of truth. Hell the second article isn’t even an article it’s just a statement with no source, wrapped in acid.
I’m not saying she’s innocent or that it was called for, but there’s no reliable truth in that article other than the man is dead.
Guns aren’t allowed in New York, She’s trans, needs to protect herself. It was a steak knife, not exactly a weapon you use to fight someone for funsies.
If she was pure evil, she would have gotten 25 years. They gave her 15 because she was in the wrong, but it wasn’t black and white.
Here’s CBS.
https://www.cbsnews.com/newyork/news/usps-worker-stabbed-to-death-in-harlem/
Keep being a heroic dumbass
well that’s a GREAT way to get blocked, don’t let the door hit ya!
For posting an article proving many points of your statement to be incorrect?
Do you find it unacceptable or rude just to correct you? Or just tone because you need people to only interact with you the way you want?
Nah, I already read half a dozen articles on it from outside the US.
It was the nasty little comment. There’s no excuse for that tone here. If you can’t argue in good faith without being nasty, they get blocked.
I had already read the take from several neutral news sources that had dug further and clarified their information without going out of their way to be pejorative.
Also of note, when arguing, you don’t just go nuh uh and post a single link for someone to read. My problem was clearly with the tone of the bad-faith source they originally used. But then, if you go and look at their post history, they’re just constantly trolling.
Their account has a lengthy history of negative karma, and I don’t have time for that. Honestly, none of us should put up with that. Block the people being nasty and move on.
Her case is over, she plead out, she is sentenced. she got a middle of the road sentence for the crime.
Now, let’s suppose we do cover that article that is in your own words, “proving many points of your statement to be incorrect”. What exactly do you say that disproves? It says it happened, that’s certainly not up for debate. It says Hodge died, and she was arrested and charged with murder. Then then paraphrase the deli managers statement “According to the deli worker, in that instant, the woman pulled out a knife and stabbed Hodge in the stomach.”
There isn’t anything in that article that is substantially against my statement. You should consider re-reading what I wrote and understand I didn’t claim she didn’t do it, and wasn’t in any case innocent.
But, if you go and read any one of the other articles, or, what has been listed otherwise in this post, (or the actual coverage of the evidence in the court case) There was back and forth. Spitting and insults were raised, tensions were high, he might have thrown a bottle at her and likely called her names. She threatened him before stabbing him.
Rich and another customer tried to intervene, but neither Cruz nor Hodge wanted to back down, Rich said. ‘I got in between them - twice,’ said Rich, who remembered another woman joining her and trying to get Hodge to stand down. ‘Don’t to this, you have a good job, let this go,’ Rich recalled the other woman saying. Rich said Hodge, however, took his coat off and said to Cruz, ‘You want to stab me?’
Yeah, she’s guilty AF, but it wasn’t premeditated. She has some psychological issues, but she’s not some satan hellspawn looking for people to stab. She needs help, it’s good that she’s off the street. It’s fucking Harlem man, if someone threatens to stab you, take em at their word.
