I just spent this day with my grandma and my uncle, at lunch they started speaking about politics and how things today are much better than 70 years ago, that we are middle class and we should be happy, also that im wrong at complaining for todays inequality and injustices.
Both of them started telling me personal stories of people they know as arguments, instead I was telling them that statistics like the Oxfam studies on wealth inequality show some few billionaires owning as much wealth as the poorest 2 billion people, and that of all new wealth created 2/3 of it go to the one percent and they simply disregard it and tell me to not complain.
I got angry with them, I have a short temper and I dont have time to explain every study on economics Ive read. Maybe I did wrong on getting angry but the conversation felt really condescending, they didnt give me any arguments on any studies, just personal stories and I felt silenced for telling what I know. Idk why but ive always been a economics and geopolitics nerd, I think I just wanted to understand the world that we live in and tried to gather as much info as I could, yet this info feels useless when speaking with them.
My uncle got really angry when I told him we cannot posibly be middle class, we would be without home if any of us stopped working, how is that not a lower class person needing to sell their labor to barely live?
He told me that all the youth are complaing about our bosses and we should be happy to have a job.
After that I told him I was sorry for geting angry but that I wasnt sorry for telling what I know.
So should I never speak about politics with them? Economic talk happens at every family gathering, I think again I will feel like I cant express myself for simply pointing at todays injustices, wtf do I do?
Just to be clear we live in a western european nation, that was under a dictatorship years ago, its no wonder that life is better now than under martial law the restoration after ww2.
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The dynamics in families differ a lot. But your question could also apply to any other situation, where you have to interact with people you probably disagree with on many things. You should question yourself if it is worth participating in such discussions then. There is nothing to gain if you are facing people who don’t want to have a proper discussion. Especially if it is just a circlejerk. In such situations, where I am somehow forced to participate (Like someone asks me directly) I simply say, that I disagree with them and that I don’t want to discuss this topic. You could say, that you don’t want to speak about negative things or politics generally.
That’s what I do if there is no point in discussing some topics. “I disagree with you, but I’m also really not in the mood to talk about it”.
I have to learn to do this, at least to keep my sanity, thanks. I just get really angry when I hear their nonsense.
First you gotta ask yourself, is the argument worth it. Arguing politics is a good way to destroy relationships as most people don’t logic themselves into a political position, they find a position they agree with and then the logic to back it up (don’t forget to do some introspection about your positions)
Second: people tend to resist changing political changes even if their current position is based on falsities, you have to “incept” them into the position. So figure out what emotional drivers they care about and argue along those lines
Your uncle seems insecure about his wealth (he got angry when you brought up you’re still working class), personally that’s where id focus. Talk about how your countries economic policies are actually holding him back, return to how the billionaires wealth is earned by exploiting people like him
Yeah it seem like its not worth it, I get that, I just want to be able to speak what I think freely with my family, cant even do that without ending in an argument.
They were speaking about the farmer protests in Europe, later the conversation idk why went to talk about look how far we have come, I told them there is still stuff to improve, like wealth inequality, global warming, etc. His responses were basically “you are wrong for thinking about improving things, things are fine like they are” I cant deal with such idiocy without getting angry. I apparently have to be thankful for getting exploited.
I just like to have a few zingers ready in the back pocket. Things like “Oh yeah totally, that’s why rent and the suicide rate are both higher than they’ve ever been, right? Because things are so good.”
I already have many of those, but they would tell me its the fault of social media or something like that.
I don’t, a lot of my family are either abusers or abuser apologists and I haven’t spoken to any of them in years aside from my brother, who lives with me.
I’m of the opinion that you choose your family. Blood relations are meangingless and often are used to excuse abusive relationships (b-b-but they’re your pArEnTs), so I just don’t bother. I don’t need any of it.
As for your folks, can’t really do much about people who won’t listen, even with data supporting your arguments they go by their feelings.
You don’t need to be sorry for how you felt and reacted, it’s a normal response to feeling like you’re being dismissed, and even more insulting to be told “stop complaining”.
Yeah I also think I choose my family, I already stopped contact with my mother, the rest of the family are not so bad, and thanks for hearing me, I already feel better.
Of course! Glad to help. 😊
That’s the neat part I don’t.
Most of it is based and I don’t spend time with those types in family…
i try to avoid politics with my family, although i frequently fail at such tbh
I dont really know, im fully estranged from my family, large in part to an inability to reconcile my views with theres. I will say that nothing im reading here comes close to why I did though, it sounds more like ignorance and a lack of intulectual ability to grasp what you’re saying; not everyone has the toolset to be able to dismantle complex data/ideas like yours and often, especially with older people you will find the only way they have to relate to what you’re saying, without a personal education is to relate it to personal annecdotes.
You shouldnt take the personal annecdotes as being a serious refutation, but it should be said that those are still valuable to them, and likely the real lived expeirence. It perhaps lacks insight but even in that lack of insight you should try to emphasize, why do they feel like that? Is it a lack of education on there part? What does it say about the socio-economic situation now?
Try to relate that to real people you know next time, give examples of friends going through hard times; abstract data wont mean much to them I imagine.
I think its also reasonable if you feel there tone is condescending to address that seperatly and refuse to engage in any political/economic talk with them period if they cant respect you on an even level.
First, my people skills are trash, thanks for the advice.
Its fine if my grandma cant understand, I know she didn’t go to school, I don’t blame her, but my uncle is an engineer, he should be able to understand.
Do I have to tell them how like half of the people my age I know are depressed and taking pills for how shitty our lives are so they get my personal feelings too? Everyone with a university degree at my age is gone from the country or working retail, I feel like he will say we are spoiled or some shit.
These are the only family I have left, my mother was abusive and I ran away from home, my father was absent and later committed suicide. I have some anger problem from my abusive childhood, so I have a short temper and start shouting quite easily, If I cant deal with the situation I leave, I never try to be aggressive. I just have it so clear why our lives are fucked and If I tell them anything about how I really feel they don’t know how to deal with me. Do they expect me to simply be happy?
If you ask, yes I’m going to therapy.
