I, for one, believe in equality. We cannot say we seek it in one hand while placing another’s rights above someone else’s in the other.
Broadly speaking I’m against over defining boundaries - they are used to label and divide people. People divided are weaker.
To your point of believe women - I want to ask why does that mans word bear less weight than hers? Traditionally people leading with that mantra will continue with “don’t punish her… it will drive away others who need to step forward.” Truth is truth. Equality should be equally distributed. She should be imprisoned for the same time and provide damages for the irreparable damages caused to his life.
If we are willing to convict on just the assertions of one party equality will continue to exist. There needs to be a strong understanding that decisions have weight - even bad ones.
Cases such as these need to also be handled properly to protect /all parties/ involved. Proper research, proper due process, all of it- before anything is made public. Gossip and slander is equally damaging. If due process is followed and both parties are respected this problem is minimized.
This is a tricky discussion to navigate as I’m sure this could devolve into discussions of il intent etc… so for the sake of keeping things civil I’ll say that people, humanity in general, is capable of being absolutely shitty and nothing will change that. What we should look to do is minimize the collateral damage as best we can and do our best to safeguard against it.
I can understand that men are scared of this, but it’s no reason to propagandize about the issue. While the boys in this thread circlejerk their victimization, women are being raped as I type this, probably women you know. They won’t tell you thos because they know the men in their lives are much more worried about a false accusation - which are so rare and usually lead nowhere.
brave up, boys. women need us to be brave and to accept the reality they live every day of their lives.
This isn’t a fear thing. This a “what’s right” thing. Your statement falls apart the second you apply it to any other social situation. What about applying that to two gay men? I guess they just need to implode as they are both and neither of what you villanize and empathize with. Two women? What about applying this view to race? It just doesn’t work. Equality is equality. If it is unbalanced it simply makes the situation worse for all parties. This is precisely why I made my closing statement. Should I not defend a man being beaten because he is a man? I should defend a person being beaten because it is wrong. period.
It’s not about what’s right though, because this topic is about the number of times WOMEN are raped, (which kits go unprocessed, which MEN disbelieve). is that right? should we allow rape kits to go unprocessed and create a culture of fear around the idea that something which happens so rarely? Like guys there are women who kill their partners, wouldn’t you think that would be a little more terrifying? I bet the statistics of that happening are even higher than the statistics of being falsely accused of rape as a man.
I am making the gender distinction because in our society it is relevant. want to talk about two women or two men where one is falsely accused of rape? ok but wouldn’t that statistic be even lower?
guys should we fear ants? ants in large numbers could kill you know.
I am making the gender distinction because in our society it is relevant. want to talk about two women or two men where one is falsely accused of rape? ok but wouldn’t that statistic be even lower?
So that makes it okay? Not your problem? What about raped men? Sorry we lack ‘kits’ for that. Cowboy up.
My assertions are that rape is bad. On this we agree.
Rape accusations are bad too. By definition rape is a violation of your person, deeply damaging, and can leave someone permanently mentally scarred for their life:
I wonder if that false accusation resulted in that exact thing to the man? Nah. Doesn’t matter. Cowboy up. I’m sorry - we fundamentally disagree on this. No person deserves inequal treatment. People are capable of unthinkable acts of cruelty: sex, race, religion is irrelevant. This story is an example of that. Broaden your views. Apologists make the problem worse, not better.
You’re strawmanning my argument. Men are raped, and that’s a concern. The way society views men who are raped as less than men is a problem. Get your head out of your ass and stick to the topic: why should we create a culture of fear around something (false rape accusations against men from women) that does happen but happens so rarely that it’s only really ever brought up to propagandize?
A straw man fallacy is the informal fallacy of refuting an argument different from the one actually under discussion, while not recognizing or acknowledging the distinction. One who engages in this fallacy is said to be “attacking a straw man”. Wikipedia
I am highlighting your own statement and showing you the flaw in your reasoning. Your response to every single person you’ve engaged in this thread is “strawman,” which isn’t correct. A good strawman would be to say: yeah it’s a shame that guy’s situation but… (insert diversion). Ponder that for a moment.
As I said. We agree in rape being awful… as we should. My views are unbiased. We won’t agree on this.
To your point on rape kits: ‘rape kits’ are multi part examinations. They ascertain if the party had sex. They look for “evidence” of the partner. They look for indications of injuries. They record a statement. The issue lies in all of this data being circumstantial. This isn’t some silver bullet that you think it is. Being an apologist for someone because, arbitrarily, bureaucracy and resources are a problem is a terrible platform to stand on. Which of us has our head buried in something here?
If that is what you gathered from what I said you are either a troll or beyond the point of being conversational with. Either way- I hope you find peace.
“Some of you will be wrongly convicted, but that’s a risk I’m willing to take.” shouldn’t be the goal my dude. You’ve gotta try harder. Don’t just believe women. Believe evidence. Believe facts. Leave hearsay out of it. This is not a difficult concept.
Then why aren’t we discussing that? But also, what are you doing to put yourself in the situation where you could be falsely accused of murder (besides having an offwhite skin tone, of course)?
My point being, we should also be afraid of stray bullets coming from the sky. Or cardiovascular disease. Or drunk driving.
Lots to be afraid of. are we prioritizing correctly though? When looking at statistics, it seems we probably shouldn’t sweat the false rape or murder accusations, unless we are doing shit which might make sense where we were accused. In that case, what are we doing, boys?
I… Yes. Yes these are all problems. Yes, they should all be addressed. You’re being incredibly disingenuous with your arguments, and allow me to add, heavily condescending by your liberal use of the term “boys” in this context. I legitimately don’t believe you’re capable of arguing in good faith about this. But, in closing, allow me to speak plainly. To wit, a false accusation with actions behind it functionally ends a life. The life of the accused ends that day. They may continue living, but no longer in the same capacity. We should have a higher bar than a single party accusation to end the life of another. If you do not believe that to be the case, then that speaks volumes more about your mindset than the issue at hand.
You’re being incredibly disingenuous with your arguments, and allow me to add, heavily condescending by your liberal use of the term “boys” in this context.
Well that’s just like, your opinion, man.
I legitimately don’t believe you’re capable of arguing in good faith about this.
You mean to say, you don’t have any rebuttle to what I’m saying. Name one case where I’m arguing in bad faith. Maybe I just need to explain myself further.
But, in closing, allow me to speak plainly.
I wouldn’t ask for anything else from you.
To wit, a false accusation with actions behind it functionally ends a life. The life of the accused ends that day.
Agreed. Also things which “functionally ends a life”:
Being raped
Being raped and not being believed
Having your rapist go free because he got a good lawyer, despite you being raped.
Simply accusing someone of rape, because they raped you (or hell, even if they didn’t). Posts like this fuel the fire of skepticism (normally healthy but in this case mysogynistic) which spread FUD and make it harder to put criminals in jail.
They may continue living, but no longer in the same capacity.
Yeah, I understood what you meant by “functionally ends a life”, please consider the list I have provided (all things which happen orders of magnatude more than men being falsely accused, let alone imprisoned because of a crime they didn’t commit.
We should have a higher bar than a single party accusation to end the life of another.
Careful what you wish for here. The bar is already pretty high, and you’re sowing more FUD trying to convince people that they should be more concerned being falsely imprisoned from a rape accusation than concerned for the actual people raped. and sending the rapist to jail.
If you do not believe that to be the case, then that speaks volumes more about your mindset than the issue at hand.
Your vague bar of “single party accusation” is lower than the current legal standard for imprisoning someone for rape. That’s my point. You’re spreading FUD saying that isn’t.
I, for one, believe in equality. We cannot say we seek it in one hand while placing another’s rights above someone else’s in the other.
Broadly speaking I’m against over defining boundaries - they are used to label and divide people. People divided are weaker.
To your point of believe women - I want to ask why does that mans word bear less weight than hers? Traditionally people leading with that mantra will continue with “don’t punish her… it will drive away others who need to step forward.” Truth is truth. Equality should be equally distributed. She should be imprisoned for the same time and provide damages for the irreparable damages caused to his life.
If we are willing to convict on just the assertions of one party equality will continue to exist. There needs to be a strong understanding that decisions have weight - even bad ones.
Cases such as these need to also be handled properly to protect /all parties/ involved. Proper research, proper due process, all of it- before anything is made public. Gossip and slander is equally damaging. If due process is followed and both parties are respected this problem is minimized.
This is a tricky discussion to navigate as I’m sure this could devolve into discussions of il intent etc… so for the sake of keeping things civil I’ll say that people, humanity in general, is capable of being absolutely shitty and nothing will change that. What we should look to do is minimize the collateral damage as best we can and do our best to safeguard against it.
I can understand that men are scared of this, but it’s no reason to propagandize about the issue. While the boys in this thread circlejerk their victimization, women are being raped as I type this, probably women you know. They won’t tell you thos because they know the men in their lives are much more worried about a false accusation - which are so rare and usually lead nowhere.
brave up, boys. women need us to be brave and to accept the reality they live every day of their lives.
This isn’t a fear thing. This a “what’s right” thing. Your statement falls apart the second you apply it to any other social situation. What about applying that to two gay men? I guess they just need to implode as they are both and neither of what you villanize and empathize with. Two women? What about applying this view to race? It just doesn’t work. Equality is equality. If it is unbalanced it simply makes the situation worse for all parties. This is precisely why I made my closing statement. Should I not defend a man being beaten because he is a man? I should defend a person being beaten because it is wrong. period.
It’s not about what’s right though, because this topic is about the number of times WOMEN are raped, (which kits go unprocessed, which MEN disbelieve). is that right? should we allow rape kits to go unprocessed and create a culture of fear around the idea that something which happens so rarely? Like guys there are women who kill their partners, wouldn’t you think that would be a little more terrifying? I bet the statistics of that happening are even higher than the statistics of being falsely accused of rape as a man.
I am making the gender distinction because in our society it is relevant. want to talk about two women or two men where one is falsely accused of rape? ok but wouldn’t that statistic be even lower?
guys should we fear ants? ants in large numbers could kill you know.
guys?
So that makes it okay? Not your problem? What about raped men? Sorry we lack ‘kits’ for that. Cowboy up.
My assertions are that rape is bad. On this we agree.
Rape accusations are bad too. By definition rape is a violation of your person, deeply damaging, and can leave someone permanently mentally scarred for their life:
I wonder if that false accusation resulted in that exact thing to the man? Nah. Doesn’t matter. Cowboy up. I’m sorry - we fundamentally disagree on this. No person deserves inequal treatment. People are capable of unthinkable acts of cruelty: sex, race, religion is irrelevant. This story is an example of that. Broaden your views. Apologists make the problem worse, not better.
You’re strawmanning my argument. Men are raped, and that’s a concern. The way society views men who are raped as less than men is a problem. Get your head out of your ass and stick to the topic: why should we create a culture of fear around something (false rape accusations against men from women) that does happen but happens so rarely that it’s only really ever brought up to propagandize?
I am highlighting your own statement and showing you the flaw in your reasoning. Your response to every single person you’ve engaged in this thread is “strawman,” which isn’t correct. A good strawman would be to say: yeah it’s a shame that guy’s situation but… (insert diversion). Ponder that for a moment.
As I said. We agree in rape being awful… as we should. My views are unbiased. We won’t agree on this.
To your point on rape kits: ‘rape kits’ are multi part examinations. They ascertain if the party had sex. They look for “evidence” of the partner. They look for indications of injuries. They record a statement. The issue lies in all of this data being circumstantial. This isn’t some silver bullet that you think it is. Being an apologist for someone because, arbitrarily, bureaucracy and resources are a problem is a terrible platform to stand on. Which of us has our head buried in something here?
You’re arguing against rape kits now? wild. Should we institute mandatory body cams for all women now?
You’re saying a man’s semen being in a woman when the woman said she did not want the man’s semen in her is not evidence of her being raped?
Absolutely wild, my man.
If that is what you gathered from what I said you are either a troll or beyond the point of being conversational with. Either way- I hope you find peace.
“Some of you will be wrongly convicted, but that’s a risk I’m willing to take.” shouldn’t be the goal my dude. You’ve gotta try harder. Don’t just believe women. Believe evidence. Believe facts. Leave hearsay out of it. This is not a difficult concept.
You’re strawmanning my argument here. false convictions for murder also happen… should we all be worried about false accusations of murder now too?
Is there a reason you’re so afraid?
YES! WE SHOULD BE WORRIED ABOUT FALSE MURDER ACCUSATIONS ARE YOU INSANE?
Then why aren’t we discussing that? But also, what are you doing to put yourself in the situation where you could be falsely accused of murder (besides having an offwhite skin tone, of course)?
My point being, we should also be afraid of stray bullets coming from the sky. Or cardiovascular disease. Or drunk driving.
Lots to be afraid of. are we prioritizing correctly though? When looking at statistics, it seems we probably shouldn’t sweat the false rape or murder accusations, unless we are doing shit which might make sense where we were accused. In that case, what are we doing, boys?
I… Yes. Yes these are all problems. Yes, they should all be addressed. You’re being incredibly disingenuous with your arguments, and allow me to add, heavily condescending by your liberal use of the term “boys” in this context. I legitimately don’t believe you’re capable of arguing in good faith about this. But, in closing, allow me to speak plainly. To wit, a false accusation with actions behind it functionally ends a life. The life of the accused ends that day. They may continue living, but no longer in the same capacity. We should have a higher bar than a single party accusation to end the life of another. If you do not believe that to be the case, then that speaks volumes more about your mindset than the issue at hand.
Well that’s just like, your opinion, man.
You mean to say, you don’t have any rebuttle to what I’m saying. Name one case where I’m arguing in bad faith. Maybe I just need to explain myself further.
I wouldn’t ask for anything else from you.
Agreed. Also things which “functionally ends a life”:
Yeah, I understood what you meant by “functionally ends a life”, please consider the list I have provided (all things which happen orders of magnatude more than men being falsely accused, let alone imprisoned because of a crime they didn’t commit.
Careful what you wish for here. The bar is already pretty high, and you’re sowing more FUD trying to convince people that they should be more concerned being falsely imprisoned from a rape accusation than concerned for the actual people raped. and sending the rapist to jail.
Your vague bar of “single party accusation” is lower than the current legal standard for imprisoning someone for rape. That’s my point. You’re spreading FUD saying that isn’t.