Here’s the thing: Trump’s politics do not stop with Trump. Killing him does not kill the fascistic movement he’s contributed greatly to, it has a life of it’s own, and even had he died today, whoever replaces him would still be peddling the same kinds of things, except they’d now have a martyr to rally Trump’s old fanbase around, one that, by virtue of being killed, many people are going to feel reluctant to criticize. As such, I feel that this attack, assuming it was politically motivated (and I figure the odds that someone shoots at Trump for reasons unrelated to his political agenda are quite slim, so it’s probably a safe assumption) was a mistake- I fear that it will have helped Trump’s agenda more than hurt it, and would have done so even if it was successful in killing him.
Now, Im not saying this to be one of those “violence is never the answer” types, I do recognize that there are situations where the only hope one has to survive an openly hostile political force is overwhelming violence; but it must be recognized that such an effort is extremely risky, it has significant drawbacks even if successful (such as setting a precedent legitimizing political violence, which anyone else may use, or causing collateral damage), and carries a significant risk that when the shooting stops, you’ll be on the losing end. As such, it really should be a last resort, and seeing as Trump isn’t even president yet, hasn’t even been voted in, and doesn’t yet have a legislature stacked up to ensure he can actually carry out his agenda, we’re not yet at the point where it is the only option left to stop him. Employing it now makes it more likely that we reach that point.
Trump is enough of a cult of personality that I think if he died (either through violence or natural causes), it would limit the effectiveness of the right wing. You are correct that it wouldn’t stop the problem. Project2025 wasn’t written by just him. There’s whole buildings full of assholes.
You may also be correct that this will motivate his fans, and that’s a net negative.
Also, I think the genie’s out of the bottle on political violence. There was already a coup attempt. If trump loses, I would be extremely surprised if there wasn’t violence. If he wins, people will suffer and die through policy. We’re not in a good spot.
Unfortunately, I cannot thanos snap away the far right.
Trump did kind of show Republicans that if you lean into your bullshit without flinching that no one will stop you. I think it’s hard to pull off for non-narcissists, though.
Remember “grab them by the pussy?” We all thought he was done after that, the media started circling for the inevitable play of contrition, which… never came. He just kept spouting bullshit, and it worked
That and voter suppression and probably foreign interference to destabilise the US
I think it’s hard to pull off for non-narcissists, though.
No, being visibly neurodivergent is terrible for your chances in politics unless you can lean in to the ND image. Look at how many people call Zuckerberg a robot or a lizard because he has visible autism. Elon kinda got away with leaning into the autism ND image for a while, but it didn’t do anything for him after he started openly being a Nazi, because the people who admire an openly autistic person aren’t Nazis. As a right wing political figure, being openly neurodivergent is terrible for your image, and that’s why Trump presents himself as a neurotypical. And while nobody can say for sure without actually evaluating him clinically, I think it’s fair to say his neurotypical straight cis male persona is genuine. Trump is not a member of a socially disabled vulnerable minority.
That cult propaganda is running full force. As a martyr Trump would shut the fuck up, making him much more useful, beginning with Republican reunification and spin at the convention next week.
The masses don’t like anyone near as much as they like Trump. I’m not saying they couldn’t find someone to rally behind, but there’s no one that stands out yet. This would hurt them in the general election, because there would be in-fighting and competing, and some general disarray. It is possible someone could emerge before the next election. Maybe they’d give Pudding Fingers another chance.
If Trump were dead then the big money would choose the next candidate behind closed doors next week at the convention. It would reunite the current polarization of the Republican party. The “masses” that were so easily co-opted will be more easily misled with the symbol than the fallible man.
You’re making the same mistake as the user above. Evil isn’t stupid. You underestimate them even as they’re nearing a milestone victory.
Evil isn’t stupid, but no one else has been successful in wielding Trump’s base like Trump. Yes, they will coalesce around some other turd, but that might not occur before the election. The organizers will be going full tilt, but just because they choose someone doesn’t mean the herd will flock. The organizers tried to prevent Trump from winning the nomination during his first election. Their influence is great, but not as great as his. Who knows. Another attempt is unlikely at this point. So, it’s all speculation.
Trump doesn’t only wield them in a subtle way, he wields like a mallet. Yes, there are successful patterns of manipulation probably going back to ape days or before, but those are not what you need for a candidate NOW. They need a whack-a-mole player. They just don’t have one lined up.
Look up to meta tactics instead of down at muddy short term details. In this way we can vaguely understand and predict without specific facts and as things happen.
The apparatus of manipulation specific to Trump’s cult will continue to exist, and in fact be amplified, by martyrdom of the fallible man. He didn’t create it. He doesn’t maintain it. He doesn’t even benefit from it anymore beyond propping up his ego. A symbol is whatever you make it, eternal.
Many of his contrarian actions were and continue to be the input for exercises is doublethink: a useful tool. But, he’d make a shitty puppet dictator because he simply can’t follow the script. Even an intelligent fascist wants literally anyone else, just as everyone left of them except the accelerationists.
I’m applying the basics of Bernays, Herman, and Chomsky. I’m not an expert. But, this isn’t rocket science, either.
Here’s the thing: Trump’s politics do not stop with Trump. Killing him does not kill the fascistic movement he’s contributed greatly to, it has a life of it’s own, and even had he died today, whoever replaces him would still be peddling the same kinds of things, except they’d now have a martyr to rally Trump’s old fanbase around, one that, by virtue of being killed, many people are going to feel reluctant to criticize. As such, I feel that this attack, assuming it was politically motivated (and I figure the odds that someone shoots at Trump for reasons unrelated to his political agenda are quite slim, so it’s probably a safe assumption) was a mistake- I fear that it will have helped Trump’s agenda more than hurt it, and would have done so even if it was successful in killing him.
Now, Im not saying this to be one of those “violence is never the answer” types, I do recognize that there are situations where the only hope one has to survive an openly hostile political force is overwhelming violence; but it must be recognized that such an effort is extremely risky, it has significant drawbacks even if successful (such as setting a precedent legitimizing political violence, which anyone else may use, or causing collateral damage), and carries a significant risk that when the shooting stops, you’ll be on the losing end. As such, it really should be a last resort, and seeing as Trump isn’t even president yet, hasn’t even been voted in, and doesn’t yet have a legislature stacked up to ensure he can actually carry out his agenda, we’re not yet at the point where it is the only option left to stop him. Employing it now makes it more likely that we reach that point.
Trump is enough of a cult of personality that I think if he died (either through violence or natural causes), it would limit the effectiveness of the right wing. You are correct that it wouldn’t stop the problem. Project2025 wasn’t written by just him. There’s whole buildings full of assholes.
You may also be correct that this will motivate his fans, and that’s a net negative.
Also, I think the genie’s out of the bottle on political violence. There was already a coup attempt. If trump loses, I would be extremely surprised if there wasn’t violence. If he wins, people will suffer and die through policy. We’re not in a good spot.
Unfortunately, I cannot thanos snap away the far right.
Trump did kind of show Republicans that if you lean into your bullshit without flinching that no one will stop you. I think it’s hard to pull off for non-narcissists, though.
Remember “grab them by the pussy?” We all thought he was done after that, the media started circling for the inevitable play of contrition, which… never came. He just kept spouting bullshit, and it worked
That and voter suppression and probably foreign interference to destabilise the US
No, being visibly neurodivergent is terrible for your chances in politics unless you can lean in to the ND image. Look at how many people call Zuckerberg a robot or a lizard because he has visible autism. Elon kinda got away with leaning into the autism ND image for a while, but it didn’t do anything for him after he started openly being a Nazi, because the people who admire an openly autistic person aren’t Nazis. As a right wing political figure, being openly neurodivergent is terrible for your image, and that’s why Trump presents himself as a neurotypical. And while nobody can say for sure without actually evaluating him clinically, I think it’s fair to say his neurotypical straight cis male persona is genuine. Trump is not a member of a socially disabled vulnerable minority.
You’re not thinking evil and intelligent enough.
That cult propaganda is running full force. As a martyr Trump would shut the fuck up, making him much more useful, beginning with Republican reunification and spin at the convention next week.
The masses don’t like anyone near as much as they like Trump. I’m not saying they couldn’t find someone to rally behind, but there’s no one that stands out yet. This would hurt them in the general election, because there would be in-fighting and competing, and some general disarray. It is possible someone could emerge before the next election. Maybe they’d give Pudding Fingers another chance.
If Trump were dead then the big money would choose the next candidate behind closed doors next week at the convention. It would reunite the current polarization of the Republican party. The “masses” that were so easily co-opted will be more easily misled with the symbol than the fallible man.
You’re making the same mistake as the user above. Evil isn’t stupid. You underestimate them even as they’re nearing a milestone victory.
Evil isn’t stupid, but no one else has been successful in wielding Trump’s base like Trump. Yes, they will coalesce around some other turd, but that might not occur before the election. The organizers will be going full tilt, but just because they choose someone doesn’t mean the herd will flock. The organizers tried to prevent Trump from winning the nomination during his first election. Their influence is great, but not as great as his. Who knows. Another attempt is unlikely at this point. So, it’s all speculation.
No one else has done so in a shallow enough manner for you to care to notice. Start with Reagan.
Trump doesn’t only wield them in a subtle way, he wields like a mallet. Yes, there are successful patterns of manipulation probably going back to ape days or before, but those are not what you need for a candidate NOW. They need a whack-a-mole player. They just don’t have one lined up.
Look up to meta tactics instead of down at muddy short term details. In this way we can vaguely understand and predict without specific facts and as things happen.
The apparatus of manipulation specific to Trump’s cult will continue to exist, and in fact be amplified, by martyrdom of the fallible man. He didn’t create it. He doesn’t maintain it. He doesn’t even benefit from it anymore beyond propping up his ego. A symbol is whatever you make it, eternal.
Many of his contrarian actions were and continue to be the input for exercises is doublethink: a useful tool. But, he’d make a shitty puppet dictator because he simply can’t follow the script. Even an intelligent fascist wants literally anyone else, just as everyone left of them except the accelerationists.
I’m applying the basics of Bernays, Herman, and Chomsky. I’m not an expert. But, this isn’t rocket science, either.
In any case where the evil party is using their loss as a rallying cry, RALLY AND YELL LOUDER. Never give them any benefit of empathy.