• masquenox@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
    63·
    1 day ago

    The anarchist understanding of Spain is so weird.

    No surprises there… anything that isn’t tankie propaganda seems “weird” to tankies.

    The May Days specifically started when anarchists were fucking around with government telephone calls

    Prove it.

    the communist just had solidarity with the Republican government and its war effort.

    Really? Is that why all Spain’s gold reserves (the third largest in the world at the time) ended up in Moscow?

    Tankies have a weird understanding of the term “solidarity.”

    I’m not saying …

    I’m not saying that the only reason Barcelona didn’t fall to the fascists right at the start of the war was because of the anarchists… oh, wait - that’s exactly what I’m saying.

    I’m not saying that anarchist plans to turn Barcelona into a death trap for the fascists was quashed by the cowardly Negrin-regime (the very same Negrin that helped Stalin steal all of Spain’s gold reserves)… oh, wait - that’s exactly what I’m saying.

    Come, tankie… let’s see how well your faux-history holds up.

    • CascadeOfLight [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
      181·
      1 day ago

      reads a history book

      Oh I see, they’re called ‘tankies’ because the USSR gave 731 tanks to the Republicans, being the only nation to provide them any material support

      • masquenox@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
        43·
        22 hours ago

        Oh I see, they’re called ‘tankies’

        What would you prefer we call you? Considering that the Bolsheviks managed the greatest single gold heist of the 20th century (from a nation being invaded by fascists, of course), would you prefer we call you “Goldies?”

        • CascadeOfLight [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
          131·
          20 hours ago

          Me when I’m an anarchist who cares about state gold reserves.

          Anyway, it was payment for the

          • 242 aircraft,
          • 703 pieces of artillery,
          • 731 tanks,
          • 1,386 trucks,
          • 300 armored cars
          • 15,000 heavy machine guns,
          • 500,000 rifles,
          • 30,000 sub-machine guns,
          • 4,000,000 artillery shells,
          • 1,000,000,000 machine gun cartridges,
          • over 69,000 tons of war material, and
          • over 29,000 tons of ammunition

          That the USSR provided. Should they have given it for free? Should they have not given support at all? Would it have been better for the Republicans to just accept they were going to lose anyway and die with their gold? Would you prefer that gold to have been captured by the Fascists?

          Besides, the actual greatest gold heist of the century was during Indian independence, when their entire gold reserves were airlifted to the UK in exchange for… nothing. Which I’m sure you knew about, having devoted a proportional amount of your time to looking into the actual crimes of capitalist nations as you have the fictional crimes of socialist ones.

          • masquenox@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
            12·
            13 hours ago

            Me when I’m an anarchist who cares about state gold reserves.

            I don’t care much for gold… but it seems to be one of the few things you tankies actually do care about.

            But hey, tankie… good news! Now at least we know that there are at least two reasons tankies would actually bother to fight fascists at all, eh?

            Anyway, it was payment for the

            That is all the third largest gold reserve in the world at the time paid for? Just that measly amount of “aid?”

            The Soviet Union got 7,411 aircraft from the western allies during WW2 - was Tankie Nr.3 forced to ship all his gold reserves to Washington DC, perhaps?

              • masquenox@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
                1·
                11 hours ago

                You were the only person to bring up gold…

                Did I, tankie?

                Seems your glorious Tankie Nr.3 brought it up quite a few years ago…

                “According to Orlov, Joseph Stalin celebrated the arrival of the gold with a banquet attended by members of the politburo, in which he was famously quoted as saying, “The Spaniards will never see their gold again, just as they don’t see their ears,” an expression based on a Russian proverb.”

    • bort [none/use name]@hexbear.netEnglish
      241·
      1 day ago

      On: “the May Days specifically started when anarchists were fucking around with government telephone calls”

      “The immediate catalyst was the Generalitat’s seizure of the CNT-controlled central telephone exchange in Barcelona on 3 May after an anarchist operator had interrupted a telephone call by the president of the republic, Manuel Azaña. In the wake of deteriorating conditions and police heavy-handedness, elements of the CNT – supported by the Poum – confronted the forces of the Generalitat and the PSUC.”

      This is really lazy but I’m just gonna link a source another poster posted here. You seem well read enough on the subject to know who Paul Preston is, but if you haven’t read his books I highly recommend.

      Really? Is that why all Spain’s gold reserves (the third largest in the world at the time) ended up in Moscow?

      What’s the issue here? My understanding was that the Republic voluntarily sent its gold to Russia to avoid it falling into fascist hands. If you’ve got a source on the contrary I’d be genuinely interested.

      And the Soviets, whether in solidarity or because they were paid in gold, sent considerable vital war materiel, and organised the International Brigades. They were the only power to support the Republican effort. Their policy, and the policy of the aligned Spanish communist parties, was supporting the Republic and the war. Again I’ve seen no evidence to suggest that this wasn’t genuinely the case.

      I’m not saying that the only reason Barcelona didn’t fall to the fascists right at the start of the war was because of the anarchists… oh, wait - that’s exactly what I’m saying.

      Yeah, I absolutely think the Republic would have stood a better chance of defeating Franco if the anarchists had been more committed to the war and less focussed on immediate revolution, I’m just not saying they would have definitely won. I understand their desire for revolution, and the work they did in Catalunya and Aragon was fantastic, I just think their priorities were in the wrong place if they wanted to sustain it.

      • masquenox@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
        32·
        1 day ago

        On: “the May Days specifically started when anarchists were fucking around with government telephone calls”

        Horseshit, tankie.

        “The news of the attack spread rapidly. Informed of what had taken place, the Regional Committee of the CNT called the Ministry of Internal Security on the telephone and demanded an explanation. Who gave the order to occupy the building? It did not come from the Council of the Generalitat, which had never deliberated such an action. After further inquiries, the Councilor of Internal Security, the republican Ayguadé, said he did not know anything about it. In fact, the order to occupy the building that Rodríguez Sala had presented bore his signature….”

        Revolution and Counterrevolution in Catalonia – Carlos Semprún Maura

        Seems like Azaña’s (alleged) “interrupted phone call” didn’t bother Azana enough to declare war on the anarchists - if such an event ever ocurred at all.

        My understanding was that the Republic voluntarily

        Right, right… the Republic decided democratically to give all it’s gold reserves to one of the most untrustworthy realpolitickers of the 20th century, eh? You tankies have a weird understanding of the term “voluntary,” too.

        They were the only power to support the Republican effort.

        Support it or hijack it? Can you tankies actually tell the difference?

        Yeah, I absolutely think the Republic

        Yeah, I absolutely think the Republic would have stood a better chance if the liberals holding hands with tankies were more interested in fighting the fascists than sabotaging the anarchists.

        • bort [none/use name]@hexbear.netEnglish
          231·
          1 day ago

          Ok, I’m just gonna disengage. You’re being really hostile, your understanding of history is bad, and you’re weirdly bitter about events you have absolutely nothing to do with. Please remember we’re just on the internet, not on opposite sides of the barricades.