Most folks online seem to only know cheap HOA Florida style neighborhoods with zero places to walk, cheap construction and 10 ft between houses.
Everyone makes assumptions of what “dense apartment living” , “suburban living” etc looks like, and folks are generally wrong on both sides of the perspective.
At its best, suburban living is great. I’m biased because I have an awesome suburb home I bought for cheap many years ago, and have awesome neighbors and no need for an HOA. I can access public transportation easily and use it often. Many other great things, including privacy and quiet. I can access the city center in about 20 minutes or great outdoor spaces in say 30. By bike. That’s not normal for lots of folks
But again, I’m biased. My experience is not universal.
suburb you described is pretty much the exception and these are expansive generally as any city.
South or West US style burbs is just the same corporate ghetto except this one does not produce sufficient tax base to support its existence without “growth”
I clarified my bias, but fyi my suburb is in the “west US”. As I said, everyone here is making assumptions. Reducing whole regions of the country to a described “corporate ghetto” isn’t a realistic reflection
Southern US has been development 70-80% post WW2 entire fucking region is corporate ghetto from poorly designed urban cores to the shiti mcmansion burbs 30 miles out.
Sure there are good places near the urban core with 2 million dollar house. That shit is great but kinda not accessible.
No need to argue, we (edit spelling) agree many bad neighborhoods exist. but that’s the exact generalization I’m talking about: not all neighborhoods are alike. My house is nowhere close to 2mil.
Point being broad generalizations exist on both sides of the conversation, and a more nuanced perspective (and a tighter scope of discussion) will better serve this topic, and aid meaningful discussion. Else we end up with this thread.
Using globals, and the biases that come with them is always weaker than focusing on specific areas and the needs therein.
Like I wouldn’t want to assume that all European apartment blocks are Soviet era shoeboxes. That would be a poor understanding of the very different dense housing in Europe.
If it’s not walkable, it’s not good. I want to cover my basics without a car or long trip. Where I am now there’s maybe 5 groceries of various sizes and a couple dozen restaurants and bars within a short walk. Plus other stuff like hardware stores, pharmacies, etc.
This isn’t a fancy or expensive neighborhood. It’s just regular Brooklyn. I wouldn’t trade this for the suburbs.
Even if you had a “suburb” that was walkable, you’re just not going to have as much stuff. Like if you lived right by “main Street” where my parents lived, there’s just fewer options. Like, I don’t think they had a single Thai restaurant when I was growing up.
If you accept the premise that a wider variety of options is better, suburbs really can’t compete on that metric. Someone might prefer the “there’s one diner in this town” model but that sounds dull to me.
But mostly it’s the car-first nature of most suburbs I can’t stand. It’s antisocial, it’s dangerous, it pollutes the environment. My parents take a 10 minute drive to get groceries and that’s incredibly wasteful.
My suburb as described does allow for much walkabilty, and bikability with sidewalks and tree lined gravel trails that go all the way to the city center. I can walk to 2 groceries, and a host of other stores in about 15 minutes one way. Bars, coffee shops, restaurants too. All on sidewalk or trail, sidewalks along slow speed neighborhood roads
On the trail, or via the neighborhood bus line, I can be downtown with a large variety of shops or or restaurants of every type.
Moreover, my point isnt to get kudos for luckily living in a nice neighborhood. It’s to highlight that generalizations are pointless.
You have a perspective of a suburban neighborhood is “not great”, and that’s fine, in a lot of places it’s true.
I have an opinion that most apartments suck, but that’s obviously not universal.
Absolutely agree. Adjacent to that is that discussion on this topic should be tighter grained…to allow/avoid for biases everyone involved has.
Edit to bring it.back from above, sunzu2 said American construction is shit, (paraphrase). It’s simply not true, universally, and speaks to a lack of understanding. (Which isn’t an attack, everyone has lacks of understanding). Many, many homes.in America are of quality construction, and or are on lots with sufficient free space between structures to allow privacy.
Like I said in another comment, I’m sure it’s the case that European apartments aren’t all Soviet era shoeboxes. I’m sure there’s very nice apartments with reasonable space.
Most folks online seem to only know cheap HOA Florida style neighborhoods with zero places to walk, cheap construction and 10 ft between houses.
Everyone makes assumptions of what “dense apartment living” , “suburban living” etc looks like, and folks are generally wrong on both sides of the perspective.
At its best, suburban living is great. I’m biased because I have an awesome suburb home I bought for cheap many years ago, and have awesome neighbors and no need for an HOA. I can access public transportation easily and use it often. Many other great things, including privacy and quiet. I can access the city center in about 20 minutes or great outdoor spaces in say 30. By bike. That’s not normal for lots of folks
But again, I’m biased. My experience is not universal.
suburb you described is pretty much the exception and these are expansive generally as any city.
South or West US style burbs is just the same corporate ghetto except this one does not produce sufficient tax base to support its existence without “growth”
I clarified my bias, but fyi my suburb is in the “west US”. As I said, everyone here is making assumptions. Reducing whole regions of the country to a described “corporate ghetto” isn’t a realistic reflection
Southern US has been development 70-80% post WW2 entire fucking region is corporate ghetto from poorly designed urban cores to the shiti mcmansion burbs 30 miles out.
Sure there are good places near the urban core with 2 million dollar house. That shit is great but kinda not accessible.
No need to argue, we (edit spelling) agree many bad neighborhoods exist. but that’s the exact generalization I’m talking about: not all neighborhoods are alike. My house is nowhere close to 2mil.
Point being broad generalizations exist on both sides of the conversation, and a more nuanced perspective (and a tighter scope of discussion) will better serve this topic, and aid meaningful discussion. Else we end up with this thread.
Using globals, and the biases that come with them is always weaker than focusing on specific areas and the needs therein.
Like I wouldn’t want to assume that all European apartment blocks are Soviet era shoeboxes. That would be a poor understanding of the very different dense housing in Europe.
I don’t know about great.
If it’s not walkable, it’s not good. I want to cover my basics without a car or long trip. Where I am now there’s maybe 5 groceries of various sizes and a couple dozen restaurants and bars within a short walk. Plus other stuff like hardware stores, pharmacies, etc.
This isn’t a fancy or expensive neighborhood. It’s just regular Brooklyn. I wouldn’t trade this for the suburbs.
Even if you had a “suburb” that was walkable, you’re just not going to have as much stuff. Like if you lived right by “main Street” where my parents lived, there’s just fewer options. Like, I don’t think they had a single Thai restaurant when I was growing up.
If you accept the premise that a wider variety of options is better, suburbs really can’t compete on that metric. Someone might prefer the “there’s one diner in this town” model but that sounds dull to me.
But mostly it’s the car-first nature of most suburbs I can’t stand. It’s antisocial, it’s dangerous, it pollutes the environment. My parents take a 10 minute drive to get groceries and that’s incredibly wasteful.
My suburb as described does allow for much walkabilty, and bikability with sidewalks and tree lined gravel trails that go all the way to the city center. I can walk to 2 groceries, and a host of other stores in about 15 minutes one way. Bars, coffee shops, restaurants too. All on sidewalk or trail, sidewalks along slow speed neighborhood roads
On the trail, or via the neighborhood bus line, I can be downtown with a large variety of shops or or restaurants of every type.
Moreover, my point isnt to get kudos for luckily living in a nice neighborhood. It’s to highlight that generalizations are pointless.
You have a perspective of a suburban neighborhood is “not great”, and that’s fine, in a lot of places it’s true.
I have an opinion that most apartments suck, but that’s obviously not universal.
Your suburb sounds exceptional. As in, the exception to the norm. But as it is the exception, adopting policy decisions on it would be foolish.
You wouldn’t point to one docile bear and be like “Living among bears is great. Look how friendly he is.”
Absolutely agree. Adjacent to that is that discussion on this topic should be tighter grained…to allow/avoid for biases everyone involved has.
Edit to bring it.back from above, sunzu2 said American construction is shit, (paraphrase). It’s simply not true, universally, and speaks to a lack of understanding. (Which isn’t an attack, everyone has lacks of understanding). Many, many homes.in America are of quality construction, and or are on lots with sufficient free space between structures to allow privacy.
Like I said in another comment, I’m sure it’s the case that European apartments aren’t all Soviet era shoeboxes. I’m sure there’s very nice apartments with reasonable space.