Will it be effective?
EDIT: The banning event continues. Please consult the modlog to observe.
https://lemmy.world/modlog?page=1&modId=7121342
If you scroll down to about a day ago, you might be able to observe an emerging behavior from this mod.
EDIT 2: The mod in question moderates a total of 108 Lemmy communities. How deep does this conspiracy run? Is this mod a lost Redditor? More to come!
EDIT 3: The mod has now removed my comment all together, one might assume because it was still receiving upvotes in the 2 hours following my ban. Are there similarities here to Watergate? You be the judge!
The users at lemmy.world basically already drove the mods in that community to suggest vegan communities on other instances to basically not have to put up with the rest of lemmy.world. It’s a dead community walking and the whole ordeal convinced me to block .world. I’ve seen less content, but damn has my experience on Lemmy gotten a whole lot better.
Wow, blocking LW is a bold move.
Interesting experience, your feed must indeed be much quieter
You’ll probably never see this, but I applaud you. Isn’t that the whole point of the fediverse? You can control who and what you see, and if you ever change your mind you can easily undo it. (And I get it, everybody needs a safe space sometimes.)
I wondered that myself, does blocking the instance also block comments?
My client does, but I have the option to click through if I think it’s worth it. Connect is the client.
It does not
Now I’m wondering if all the other drama surrounding her was actually her fault…
Good job assassinating your own character, I guess, Beavs.
this vegan drama is dumb as shit
the top three vegan communities by users are hexbear, .ml, .world
hexbear has news, opinions, questions from a vegan pov
.ml has similar
.world has a lot of shitty memes
if you are looking for a serious vegan comm go to hexbear or ml. if you are looking for shitty memes go to .world
if you are not a vegan and just want to lolpost ‘but bacon is delicious’ keep it to your fucking self
Not worth being near tankies.
Yeah being around tankies just isn’t worth it, also it’s not like you’ll escape this kind of drama there anyway, they likely have drama this bad or worse there.
There is also [email protected], their own instance
Which Hamid has made just as bad as beaver did here, but I guess at least he’s transparent about ban hammering and comment removals. He’s insufferable and is the instance mod, not just community mod.
It is starting to look like the only place a vegan community mushroom can grow and flourish is on an even bigger pile of shit. It’s a little crass to say, but it ought to tell you something when the most defederated and blocked instances is where your group hangs out.
I just want to read vegan recipes and see like minded people discuss a topic in a civilized way, you know, like basically every other community.
Yeah I’m not vegan, but if vegans want to be insufferable in vegan spaces I think that’s ok. That’s where it’s supposed to be. If you want to be anti vegan in those spaces you’re an asshole for it
Ok but maybe then you pick a space that isn’t on a open federated social media platform designed for open conversation?
But I was assured this only happened on ml instances and .world was a blistering Wild West of ultimate free speech 🤔
(As long as you don’t dislike Nazis, thats what got me banned from the instance)
At this point we should turn Rule 5 into it’s own joke. Bad vibes? Rule 5. I don’t like you? Rule 5. I’m having a bad day? Rule 5. The great servers need a sacrifice? Rule 5. Bitching about Rule 5? Believe it or not, Rule 5.
Rule 5
Where’s his brother? I could have sworn there were two angry beavers…
Edit: NM totally missed the mod in question’s name.
Oh boy, it looks like they’re posting the “you should feed your obligate carnivorous pets a fully vegan diet” garbage again.
Most people aren’t vegan, so vegans are a minority. That’s not difficult to understand, so we have to assume you’re reading in bad faith. Stop it please.
Edit: veganism isn’t a diet either. Quite easy to find this out if you even stick the word into a search engine.
This might be a language barrier thing, but in most english-speaking countries when you use the term “minority” to refer to a group of people, that typically refers to a group who is a minority based on race, sex, ethnicity, gender or some other inherent trait. You might say, “a small community” to refer to a group within a group, but you wouldn’t say, “a minority community” for that unless you were trying to imply that the community in question was a racial, ethnic, gender, or other form of minority.
What about “vocal minority”?
While you have a point, my immediate reaction was, “oh cool, now they’re trying to do it too” (I’ve seen tankies claim the same shit). When I probe my brain to try and figure out why that was a response, the result is my brain telling me that I’m hearing some kind of dog whistle but it won’t go into more detail about what makes that statement sound like a dog whistle.
Tbh, considering how unhinged they’re behaving (though at this point I think they’re doing it for shits and giggles), I wouldn’t be surprised if they truly meant it that way; it honestly wouldn’t be the first time I’ve seen someone on here try to claim something like that. I suppose that doesn’t mean they intended to mean it that way, now I’m curious if anyone else had a similar interpretation. I’m used to hearing people referring to racial, or gender, or ethnic minorities when they say something like, “I’m part of a misunderstood minority group”; and I know I’ve heard people from other english-speaking countries (other than the US) do it as well.
I have seen the word used in both ways, though I think that in this case the user was intending to use it to imply oppression, rather than simply meaning that they do not have a lot of users.
No, English is my first language, and all I’m saying is that you could’ve interpreted it the other way, which is plausible at the end of the day, and it’d be true, which is what it means to read something charitably/in good faith.
To put the shoe on the other foot, how would it sound to you if someone on the Carnivore diet, or on the Atkins diet called themselves a minority?
It just doesn’t make sense, because dietary choices, are just that, choices. While actual minorities, like POCs and LGBTQ people, are born the way they are. They don’t have any choices in the matter.
Don’t get me wrong, dietary choices can be a super serious matter, and I am not saying that people aren’t discriminated against for them. I just think its wrong to call someone a minority based on any sort of dietary choice, at least in the same context that minority is usually used.
Religion is a choice, does that make religious minorities not minorities? It’s a strongly held ethical belief system.
Religion, by itself, is normally not a qualifier when we refer to minorites, as that word normally implies an ethnic or racial minority. However, there are some religions with ethnicities tied to them, e.g. Jewish people, and Muslims, so the line can definitely become a bit blurred.
Jewish people are a minority in most places because of their ethnicity, not their religion. Muslims are often referred to as minorities in most places, because most Muslims are ethnically related, at least as far as the Western world is concerned.
Some also reuse the word minority interchangably to refer to religious minorities, political minorities, etc, which further blurs the line, but the most common use of the word is in reference to race or ethnicity.
Again, veganism isn’t a diet (this is painfully easy to find out if you just quickly look it up!) and if you interpret minority in a literal sense, it’s true and relevant because it’s easy to be overwhelmed by the majority if you’re in the minority, which is what the person posting seems to be worried about.
I understand that Veganism is more than just a diet. Its a lifestyle, culture, pledge to a certain set of morals, etc. It can be as important as religion is to a devout religious person.
A person on the Carnivore diet can make the same point. A person that subscribes to a political identity could also make your same point. This slippery slope leads to Nazis being able to call themselves minorities, because technically, Naziism is a culture, too, albeit a terrible one, and they are very thankfully in the minority of political beliefs.
The difference being that nazis actually should be overwhelmed by the majority.
It’s still a CHOICE. No one is born vegan; it’s a position that someone arrives at.
So is religion, theoretically at least.
I agree with you. Unfortunately, the law does not. The law privileges religion as though it was inherent and immutable.
There are certainly vegan diets. People who still eat animal produce may still be interested in vegan alternatives without becoming vegan or vegetarian. And I don’t think being part of a small community of a certain life choice isn’t really making you a minority in the political sense (I assume that’s what the minority part is trying to imply here, that there’s some sort of entitlement for a minority protection).
Also, promoting vegan diets for carnivorous pets is indeed animal abuse and should not be defended or promoted. That’s typically a telltale sign of veganazis, which are generally a terrible thing even for actual vegans as they put the whole lifestyle into a bad light with their overly aggressive rhetoric and disinformation.
There are certainly vegan diets.
Yes, and there are Muslim diets I’m sure, but Islam isn’t a diet either, for example. Just stick “veganism” into your search engine of choice and the credible sources won’t call it a diet.
And I don’t think being part of a small community of a certain life choice isn’t really making you a minority in the political sense
I’m arguing that they may not have meant that. The criticism should be “that’s clumsy wording because it sounds like you mean minority in a political sense” or “surely you don’t mean…” rather than “you’re comparing yourself to (minorities in the political sense) and therefore vegans are bad”.
Also, …
Honestly, I suspect your willingness to assume the worst of what a vegan’s said, and that you bring up a minority view even amongst vegans out of context, betrays a prejudgment that plays as much, if not more, of a role as how aggressively some vegans argue in how you’re approaching the whole thing.
Yes, and there are Muslim diets I’m sure, but Islam isn’t a diet either, for example. Just stick “veganism” into your search engine of choice and the credible sources won’t call it a diet.
And there’s surely people who are looking for traditional Muslim food without wanting to convert to Islam as well. Muslim’s would probably treat people curious about their food less hostile than those vegans would.
I suspect your willingness to assume the worst of what a vegan’s said
You can suspect that I assume the worst of any sort of human, especially when they constantly argue in bad faith and with hostile rhetoric. That being said, I don’t approach vegans at all. I just observe the constant self righteous shit flinging they do from the outside, or get unwillingly caught up in it because they can’t help but attack people even outside of their little radicalized bubbles.
But then you’re willingly admitting that you don’t speak to enough vegans to have an informed idea of their ethos, which is something I wouldn’t readily admit even if I did it. Not sure what your first point has to do with the matter at hand though.
Not speaking to veganazis isn’t the same as not speaking to vegans. Normal vegans I have no issues talking to.
My first point is about the community that’s about vegan food shunning those interested in vegan food because they’re unwilling to talk to people who eat animal produce.
I think you’re going on a bit of a tangent I’m not interested in, sorry, but otherwise I’m not really following, and if you say things like “veganazis” it just reminds me of when people used to write “feminazis”.
I was curious, so I had a look, seems like it still leads to violence in some occurences
A Florida man was recently arrested for allegedly stabbing his cousin after a heated debate about whether whole cow’s milk or almond milk is superior.
The debate over whether to consume animal products, like meat and dairy, or go entirely plant-based (vegan) is a hot-button issue, often filled with vitriol and name-calling online and in real life.
https://www.businessinsider.com/why-do-angry-vegans-meat-eaters-fight-so-much-2020-2?op=1
Yeah, but c’mon, that’s Floridaman. He’s a meth head who’d murder someone because he wanted to fuck an alligator and thought he needed a human sacrifice to do it.
Whoa now! Don’t tarnish the good name of alligator fuckers like that!
Alligator lovers
I don’t think that counts as targeted hate crime or whatever. He wasn’t stabbed for veganism, he was stabbed from the heated argument, which by trigger happy dumbos like these could have been about anything.
I’m not a vegan or even a vegetarian, but even I can see that my vegetarian friends get questioned uncomfortably all the time for their diet choice. When you do something differently, you inevitably get bullied.
I used to be a vegetarian for a decade and then a pescetarian before apathy fully set in and I saw how pointless it all is.
Vegans and vegetarians can be some of the most judgemental gatekeeping assholes out there. Many of them aren’t, but the ones that are militant and overbearing are the worst and only push others from their cause. Those ones desperately want to feel better than others, so become borderline eating disordered to elevate themselves to some holy god level in their minds because they eat beans and lentils.
They aren’t in the same class as minorities. They choose to eat the diet they do. And no one can visibly tell they are vegetarian/vegan until they tell others they are.
They are not in the same situation as minorities, but if they stay true to their ideals, they get bullied just like minorities. The fact there are assholes among them just like in any other group of people changes nothing.
Getting bullied is not the same as being a “MINORITY”. White kids who are not minorities in North America but get bullied all the time in school. Not eating flesh of a mammal or fish etc doesn’t mean you are a “minority”. Like I said, I’ve experienced life as a veggie. Is it annoying? The stupid questions, the comments people make? Yes. But I’ve never had a cop pull me over and worry about whether I’ll die that day because I don’t eat beef. Or worry, walking down the street, alone at night as a single woman, if I’ll be assaulted because I don’t eat chicken. Non-meat-eaters aren’t minorities in the sense that they are discriminated against in the idea that the word “minority” conjures up. They deal with, at most, someone tricking them into eating meat. Which I’ve had done. It felt violating and offensive but wasn’t any sort of level as someone who is an actual “minority” in our continent.
As I think about it though, the word minority now mosty means an ethnical minority. But when mentioning women - although discriminated against, they’re not a minority in the original sense at all - there is usually the same number of women and men, the problems lie elsewhere. In this sense of the word, vegans are a minority in our society. They could be compared to religious minorities, I guess. It’s a choice, but a choice based on ethical foundations, so going against this choice is unthinkable for those people without being untrue to themselves and betraying what they believe in.
I didn’t want to say it was the same. Just that they do get bullied.
Removed by mod
Yeah vegans should not consider themselves as a minority.
The ANIMALS are the minority group. Not YOU. The entitlement speaks to an ego trip and is a vicious representation of the cause.
They should have their platform removed because they are hurting the image of the vegan movement
This is coming from a vegan btw
The ANIMALS are the minority group. Not YOU.
To be fair, minority in the sense that there is a power imbalance between us humans, the majority, and domesticated animals, the minority.
The modlog should at least contain an identifier of the mod. Maybe not a link to their account but something that can be tracked across communities. To see who is abusing their power.
I’m pretty it’s Beaver. I’m now banned (and I appear to be blocked by Beaver as well) and I’m pretty sure the only recent direct interaction I’ve had with the community was downvoting the recent articles about how vegan diets are okay for carnivorous pets.
They went batshit with the meme posting last night and the threads were mostly shitting on them. They are full tilt.
Yup just checked, banned.
Yeah, beaver is a bit batshit lol
Thunder shows the mod for each modlog action.
Modlog does contain the info, it’s just not displayed on the website. You can get the full data from lemmy API
Nice… thanks. I had indeed just checked the website. I think it should then just be on the website. Especially if they are exposing votes then open this up too.
Yeah it’s weird it just says ‘mod’ or ‘admin’ instead of the username
It’s because people abused mods who banned them and such. I kinda get it.
Transparency for thee…
Yeah…
The info is there. You can tell who it is by using the filters (e.g. logs on me modded beaver: https://lemmy.world/modlog?page=1&modId=7121342&userId=36)
It’s a pain in the ass but it works.
Oh man, I am so happy I blocked that community months ago because I just have no interest in it or their diet.
I’m interested and I’m cutting down on animal sourced food, but they are aggressive, ignorant and overall annoying, so I blocked them some days ago. I’m not sure what their goal is. Gatekeeping veganism so that nobody considers it?
There are plenty of other spaces where vegans can respond to “plants feel pain” and “but what about lions” a million times a day, but that gets old pretty quick. The goal is to have a space where vegans can just interact amongst themselves, which necessarily requires some degree of gatekeeping
I understand what you’re saying, but I still think they could do without being such assholes about it. But I don’t have to interact with them and blocking is easy, so be it what it is.
Take the community private? Have Moral purity test for admission?
They thrive on the nonsense.
Then shouldn’t their space be private, so they don’t show up on all? They are begging for downvotes with how nasty their memes are. I understand their point, but i am sure that my understanding is much better reserved for non jerks.
How does one make a private lemmy community?
I don’t know, don’t have an instance. If it’s not just an option to still be federated but to opt out of having community posts being featured in all then maybe they should defederate with all of the other ones so they can post terrible things about the people they hate behind everyone else’s backs. Or they can just accept that when someone (even a mod) posts something antagonistic, it’s going to get down votes.
I seriously doubt that vegan posts showing off durian jerky, or even posts about how long cows could live if the meat industry didn’t slaughter them at peak profit efficiency, would be downvoted that much.
I’m not sure if you saw the recent community update, but things have died down at /c/vegan. Up to you, but posts will probably be leaning more informative and less antagonistic now that the situation has been resolved.
I haven’t seen it, but now I’m curious. Thanks
Rule 5
I’m lazy, please help me, what is rule 5
You don’t know about rule 5?
That’s a rule 5 violation.
D:
what will become of me
Paddle’n
:D
Weird that criticism of Spam wouldn’t be acceptable in a vegan community!
That’s why you go with
!Incidentally, vegan Spam does exist both in the official Spam brand and in another brand called unMeat. As someone who really doesn’t like Spam, though, I’m unqualified to judge it.
Removed by mod
I’m not vegan, but honestly I can understand. As soon as you have an opinion which is not the one of the majority, your posts, even in thematic spaces, are heavily downvoted, and it’s tiring. I’m not conservative, I disagree with the posts in c/conservative, buy why would I downvote the things they publish there? A lot of Lemmy members do, however. Same with c/vegan or the religious communities.
The Fediverse seems a lot “bubblier” than Reddit, with people quicker to hit the downvote button for views that intrude. I’ve lost a lot of drive to engage here, I find myself often dropping a comment into a discussion and then never looking back at it. Unfortunate, but I suppose not too surprising when communities are smaller.
I hide downvotes since we can (latest Lemmy upgrade), that’s better
I also hide downvotes due to the same reasons, (was getting stressed) but that also hides other users’ downvotes. Is there any way to still see them?
Not that I know of, it’s all or nothing at the moment
Sorry. Do I understand this correctly? You were getting stressed by random internet strangers downvoting you? Are you serious?
yeah I have an anxiety disorder, I get stressed by a lot of things
I’m sorry to hear that. I hope life becomes slower and calmer for you in the future. I don’t read anything into up or down votes. I just open my fat stupid mouth and anonymously comment. Sometimes people like it, sometimes they don’t. Voting is more a reflection of the people you talk to. I’m sure the first person who said the world was round and circled the sun would have been downvoted into oblivion back in the day, but… gestures broadly at modern astronomy. Don’t sweat it.
It’s an echo bunker. Banking anyone who doesn’t whole throatedly support their beliefs is a feature of the community. I am banned.
It’s funny how many trolls and crazy people are attracted to positions of power, I suspect it’s compensation. That last message says it all. Their user seems to have been nuked, at least in their home instance. Ironic they had to remove the same mod they not only criticized but also continued criticized in their remove mod post unironically. Does this mean they will move back to lemmy.world? Didn’t they move out to lemmy.ml?
🍿
Justified ban imo. You weren’t there to discuss veganism as a vegan, you were there for drama. It’s not spam when they make a lot of posts to their own community. Unless the content is hateful, the correct response is to block.
I was never there, I was merely passing through All.
The OP literally shows a screenshot of your comment
What I mean to say is I didn’t enjoy a stay. My comment was made in a manner I would have made in any other community that popped up on All, that was serving up terrible meme after terrible meme. I wasn’t there to do anything.
If you were never a member of the community, then you’ve lost nothing from being banned, and the mod was right to decide that your comment wasn’t a good faith contribution from a member of the community.
Increasingly I believe communities should be able to hide from All. I step into places without realizing it too. They want an echo bunker, not a public sidewalk
To expand:
c/veganism isn’t actually a place to discuss the merits or news about vegan topics, or recipes.
It’s a place for vegans, and only vegans, to share likeminded opinions on their world view. This is not unique to this community.
Being a non vegan, and sharing a non vegan opinion there is not what they want. They find it offensive, and nearly bannable in general.
Ultimately, that’s ok, it’s their community.
The problem comes in when their posts land on All, where anyone sees it and feels invited to read and comment and vote. (Which I believe they are). So a mechanism to keep them off All would be useful to discourage people “walking by”
deleted by creator
Well put.
If outsider opinions are nearly always considered “bad faith”, the situation is a systemic issue with the visibility of the group.
Increasingly I believe communities should be able to hide from All.
Definitely
And I would say with such a rule, places shouldn’t have a rule 5 style rule AND be found on All. It should be either or. If you expose yourself to the public (to expand traffic), you.have to be thick skinned enough to handle public banter, which will not align with the community core.
It’s not spam when they make a lot of posts to their own community.
I disagree. I see this often from lemmynsfw or various meme communities where some users tend to just dump 5-10 or even more threads. Neither Lemmy nor mbin really uses algorithms to prevent communities from showing up more than once, so you’ll always get the full load of those submissions spammed into your feed.
And no, blocking the entire community is not a valid solution when you do not inherently disagree with it.
![[email protected] mod suppresses criticisms of fediverse spam campaign, using mass ban technique to silence opposing viewpoints](https://lemmy.sdf.org/pictrs/image/3c83e0c1-768e-462f-8cba-e2d7dcdadee9.png){kind=link}