I would like Natalie to tell me which western country will support any newly socialist country.
Of course we oppose them. These alternative enemies of the west will occasionally support socialist states.
Does she even claim to be a socialist? She only ever talks about cultural issues and “deradicalization.” I appreciate her for having been an important part of my process of learning about politics several years ago, but she barely talks about anything economic ever.
Not to my knowledge but the point stands. Do not be surprised that the socialists oppose the countries that are our greatest enemies while being strategically supportive of reactionary countries that aren’t our outright opponents.
It’s crazy that anyone who glazed Hillary of all people is taken seriously in any capacity amongst left leaning people.
To be fair, she had a good video or two…ten years ago. Now its just “look at me i have money and lol tankies mad.” Its been that way for 9 years at least, I clocked that shit a mile ago.
If people pay you to live your life like that, cool, great, get the bag. But don’t pretend to be some arbiter of the left when you’re cozying up to
Idk, I could be wrong, im speaking after not having seen any of her content for a decade…but something tells me im not.
“They dont want power, they want to critique power”
No fuck you we want power why did we spend all that time and effort trying to elect local socialists in my city? Why was PSL on the presidential ballot in a lot of states? What is wrong with critiquing power anyways?
You are right. In her most recent video she calls herself a liberal and this time she seems to mean it, even if she can’t fully remove the smirk from her face as she says it. And she keeps punching left for no reason and in ways that shouldn’t even make sense to a liberal who has, like, actually talked to a Marxist before, even for one tweet.
She’s still mad at Ralph Nader ,she is a liberal
Even if every claim of Russian ebil oligarchy was real, to which many of the claims are bogus, at worst it is still an economically and militarily less-influential version of the US-NATO empire?
Surely, even if you were an anarchist or otherwise anti-nationalist on the left, you would see the historic importance of said US Empire suddenly biting off more than it can chew and being drawn into collapse?
I know there are exceptions like the A"C"P, but most people on the left I know that “support” Russia are just supporting the growing attrition and contradictions against the imperialist system. Those same people are all very aware of limitations and contradictions within the Russian, Chinese, Iranian states.
In short, you can’t expect to win against the imperialists if every time the imperialists face a challenger you spend countless hours criticising the challenger’s politics as if this wasn’t already universally agreed within the statement critical support.
Russia is not a far right country ,in fact Russia is one of the ONLY counties in Europe not led by a fascist maniac
If you know anything about geopolitics you would know that Russia is opposed by right wingers in the global south but supported by left wingers ,example (election with a pro trump candidate vs a pro Putin candidate)
Also let’s look at Putin’s policies : more tolerant on immigration than the USA ,Germany ,Poland ,Baltic states ,France
Abortion is legal and will likely never be removed as a right
Muslims and ethnic minorities are actually protected by the state
Is NOT viewed as a nationalist
His MAIN opponents are Nazis ,Neo Nazis ,monarchists (who are also Neo Nazis) , NeoLibs who want to privatize Russia
Is Putin a communist ? No he’s not and Russia is not a communist country by any means but that doesn’t fucking matter ,there are ONLY 5 communist countries on the fucking planet
And I hate this absolutely braindead thing from westerners not libs but comrades about Putin being a fascist ,I don’t respect liberals so I don’t care but I hate when our comrades say this while simultaneously defending Bashar Al Assad (rightfully)
If Bashar isn’t a fascist (he isn’t but he has more reactionary opinions than Putin) than Putin isn’t
Also as for the Russia is anti communist thing ,yes I don’t care ,Russia is not even close to being the most anti communist country in the world proven by the fact it’s literally an ally of communist states and Putin is not much of an anti communist as a lot of Russian are these days (unfortunately) as well as his opposition
Putin also isn’t really a dictator but this one is more complicated as elections are rigged in Russia just not to a full extent ,most Russians would vote for Putin even if elections were completely fair but there is indeed corruption
Sorry for how angry I have been but I can’t tolerate nonsense
And please mods I’m not gonna deal with any of the libs that will reply to this comment ,it’s your job
I’m from country with HEAVY anty-russian propaganda, so you know, Russia bad. Could someone point me into the direction on materials about Russia with more balanced point of view?
The current war in Ukraine would never have happened if Ukraine had bothered to implement the Minsk Agreements.
They would have gotten back ALL of their territory lost during the civil war excluding Crimea (which they’re never getting back anyway), on the account that they have to stop pursuing ethnic cleansing policies in the eastern regions (the Minsk Agreements explicitly gave some level of cultural autonomy to the provincial governments so the Rada cannot, for example, simply impose a ban on the Russian language on a whim like they did on February 2014, which sparked the civil war in the first place).
Ukrainian fascists chose no, they cannot live without ethnic cleansing the Russians. So now they are going to lose everything.
I’m from country with HEAVY anty-russian propaganda
Do you have any idea how much that lowers it down 😭
🤔 let me think for this one ,I’m sure some comrades here have something
Do you have any idea how much that lowers it down
fair enough
Don’t you know that Afghanistan is full of religious fundamentalists and that’s why all these backward people DESERVE to be bombed?
Saddam was a bloodthirsty dictator and that’s why half a million Iraqi people dying is a price that is WORTH paying for toppling his regime.
Putin’s war in Ukraine is objectively 10 times WORSE than the entirety of Hitler’s regime during World War 2.
i swear they operate under some collective delusion.
WHO IS TALKING ABOUT RUSSIA?
It’s my favorite thing when neoliberal slime appropriate the stupidest elements of Trotskyism.
Also, I have no respect for anyone who uses the word “oligarch” to mean “Asiatic-style capitalist” and I struggle to conceive how professed anticapitalists can still like her. Well, of course I can, she’s part of their consumer lifestyle brand, she’s an affectation of quippy, artsy, intellectualism that is so much more effective at bringing about real change by punching left over and over and over.
The US is a far-right oligarchy, especially when it regards foreign policy.
it is uniquely evil as well (implied by context she disagrees with it, but not stated directly).
my boys from regrettable century were right, “neither washington nor moscow (but actually washington)” is kind of disease of some subtype of leftists since 70s (there is no moscow now even, so they just do “neither washington or insert_baddie_name (but actually washington)”)
probably flows from ignoring imperialism and thus no campist logic leads one to “…except current one”
“Sure the US can be bad, but Russia/Iran/Syria/China is no angel”
Maybe she believes, like Obama does, that decade after decade of the US acting like a mafia with a trillion dollar army and using any and all means to pursue world domination is fine because it’s better us doing it than them.
We are the model moral army.
She talkin mad shit for someone who only has eight months until her next video comes out.
paypiggies will pay anyway, she should do it bi-yearly, to commit to the bit
You joke but it seriously might take longer
I’m a lot more anti-ethnic cleansing than I am pro-liberal democracy. If one side of a conflict is doing ethnic cleansing, and the other side’s biggest failure (relative to the first side’s) is not being a liberal democracy, I’m taking the side that’s stopping ethnic cleansing 10 times out of 10.
Also, FWIW, Ukraine’s political system is obviously is at least as corrupt and antidemocratic as Russia, and the other obvious example is Israel, which doesn’t even give equal voting rights to all Palestinians. So even if you were a Fukuyamist who only cared about which side is a liberal democracy, you still can’t make the argument to support the West in either conflict just based on that. All roads lead to
Really it’s more a question of how much red carpet they lay out for Western corporate interests. Saudi Arabia is a majority Muslim country led by a monarchy that offs journalists for being critical of them. But they get the pass from
because they play nice with the oil industry.
‘‘campist’’ is becoming the new Tankie lmao
Commie → tankie → campist → contraäntidisestablishmentarianist
In my experience people think im unconditionally for Russia if I make any criticism of Ukraine
It’s infuriating. I’ve literally got that thrown at me IRL, by people that know I’m very active in anarchist groups…like fuck.
that’s why you just z post
They’re going to believe that of you anyway
Z posters
I once went through my stance on this issue and got a very sincere response that what I said “sounds like Kremlin talking points.” I asked the person if they’ve ever actually listened to or read a translation of what the Kremlin says beyond the extremely clipped paraphrasings on NPR and such, and they said no. It’s impressive that they could recognize the sound of something they had never heard.
Fortunately for me, I have actually read and listened to speeches by Putin, and could explain to them some of what Russia says regarding Ukraine and the US and the degree to which I think they are correct or incorrect (e.g. Putin does like using revanchist rhetoric and I deeply despise that, and we don’t need to talk about his social views).
Anyway, I think the place to start with such people if you’re going to talk to them again is to say that reactionaries can and do opportunistically tell the truth. If you’re speaking to an American, ou can use any number of things they’d probably be familiar with from Presidential campaigns in the US, where Republican called Biden a senile old fool and they were completely right (but were not speaking from any sort of principled objection). Reactionaries have platforms based on lies that require them to lie a lot, but that doesn’t mean that they are devils who are forced to speak only in lies.
So like when Putin says he wants to get rid of Ukro-Nazis, he is almost certainly telling the truth. He doesn’t have any problem with fascists, but in Ukraine overwhelmingly the most dedicated enemies of Russia are going to be the hardline nationalists, including the Banderites. That doesn’t mean he has any interest in stopping Russo-Nazis, though clearly he also can find them to be a problem for political reasons, from Navalny to Wagner (eventually, after far too long).
I mean this isn’t entirely wrong. I do think the Western powers are a unique evil that must be destroyed by any means necessary, and am willing to extent critical support to any and all who oppose their hegemony.
I think their criticism is based on idealism. They claim (unsure whether sincerely or not) that we categorically consider western powers as uniquely evil (or that we axiomatically consider that). They fail to see that we recognize the western powers as uniquely evil in the particular historical context of actual existing capitalism, colonialism, and imperialism.
i think there gotta be bordiga addendum to this
if they are not trying to get colonies?
A Bordiga addendum, like “I love Hitler, but not as much as I love Mussolini”?
he thought, at some point, that overthrowing british empire was worth whatever (i think that hitler line is on the same page) (
that was before holocaust, but after dachau opening for kpd,if i recall correctlygotta reup my bordiga lore smh).we should call it “bordiga limit of campist critical support” ™
He floated the idea that Germany was revolutionary for opposing the British empire, yes. Now of course he would use the idea that you could sign a pact with Hitler to oppose Britain/France as evidence that the Soviet Union had lost their way, after having previously supported that exact thing when Hitler did it. Bordiga just hated AES. That was literally his guiding principle from 1920 on.
i think he changed tune after 1948 (?), i remember there was some recalibration time of italian leftcoms/particularly him in the 30-40s. hmm but now i can’t find that quote, maybe i’m wrong
In an article he wrote in 1960 he condemned the Soviet Union both for the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact AND for siding with the allies to defeat the nazis.
https://www.marxists.org/archive/bordiga/works/1960/vae-victus.htm
In the second war of German revanchism, Russia – now deviated from revolutionary Marxism – at first made a pact with Hitler for a moment, using as a pretense the Leninist thesis that France and England (later America) were fighting for exquisite imperialist motives: those of 1914.
That was the first disgrace, but the second stage was even worse. Reaching out to the French, the English, and the Americans, the Russians threw themselves once again into the most criminal democratic crusadism.
Oh oh and here’s the best (worst) bit.
Almost half a century has been enough to show that the Russian leadership of the struggle for communism has ended in failure. [Our] hopes can only be placed in a mission of the great Germanic proletariat
In an article he wrote in 1960 he condemned the Soviet Union both for the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact AND for siding with the allies to defeat the nazis.
Well there’s a reason why Gramsci died in prison while Bordiga didn’t.
They are uniquely evil tho and i’m pretty far from being a tankie
: “You and your purity tests, they’re the lesser of two evils!”Oh, and doesn’t contra glaze far-right creators all the time?
Of course. They are just misunderstood figures in the discourse, who really deserve sympathy for being wrong but understandably so, while leftists are just narcissistic losers who want to quote old dead white men to justify their urge to be violent. At least that was her opinion through video back in the day, and I can’t imagine it has gotten any better.
I am not familiar with this part of the lore. Who does she support and what does she say about them? I assume you’re not just talking about the usual people like that transmasc porn actor.
She was like this with both Jordan Peterson and Blair White, which is around when I stopped watching. People just have absolutely no critical media skills and completely glossed over this because ‘oh pretty video that is vaguely on my side’. She has always been like this, and people just wish casted what they wanted her to be.
For example, you are completely misreading me, it’s not support. It’s the portrayal and story of who these people are compared to her portrayal of the amalgamation of radical leftists. She would never actually portray a specific leftist or even do a specific deep dive on one, otherwise that would give up the game.
She went on Hilary Clinton’s documentary and had an interview with her and glazed her
