There were so many Nintendo apologists when Yuzu was taken down because “Yuzu used actual nintendo source code, so that’s why they were taken down, it won’t happen to Ryujinx.” Yet here we are. Nintendo is by far the shittiest company when it comes to protecting their IP, because it’s all they have. Turns out, Mario is a fucking bootlicker
Well he is always saving the monarchy. Should have been kinda obvious 👑
Saving one monarchy from another.
Yeah but Bowser at least gives his subjects free healthcare. Sometimes even brings them back to life. When have you seen a skeletoad?
True. The only time we’ve seen a Toad’s skeleton is when they’re electrocuted in Mario Strikers Charged.
I don’t understand how people think getting rid of emulators is good. Having emulators is better as a consumer than not having them at all, since it can give gamers more ways to play their games and might incentivize Nintendo to add features to compete with emulators (think better res and fps, mod support, save states, no online requirement).
Because a subset of people are and always will be idiots. Remember: some people think unions exist to steal your money, socialism is communist dictatorship propaganda, and privatization of government services is good for everybody.
Nintendo fanboys are a special breed of stupid, arguing with them about Nintendo’s policies and anti consumer practices is just a wasted effort.
Yuzu did not use “nintendo source code”.
They simply hosted decryption keys in their repository. But that still was not the focus of Nintendo’s move. It was that Yuzu and its company profited directly from the release of The Legend of Zelda.
Makes sense, what was the focus on their move here?
because it’s all they have
I’m not quite sure you fully understand what you said here, given your surrounding arguments. Nintendo literally cannot exist if they allow emulators without becoming just another Sony/Microsoft. And they cannot realistically compete against those two.
Tons of boot kickers in the comments here
Boot lickers?
I mean like they are seeing nintendos “side” in this
Well you gotta kick boots. What else you gonna do, kick sandals? That’s just insane.
I think anyone still in the scene will want to lay low for a while and work in the shadows. Only releasing after a few years.
I hope they dont go for dolphin or cemu claiming that certain games are in their e-shop for the switch 2 release.
Either way I think we should start backing up emulators and their source and require files regularly as a fallback.
I mean, all of these emulators are already very well archived and available from several sources, not to mention downloaded to the devices of millions of people. I highly doubt we would be in danger of losing any of them even if Nintendo were to sue literally all of them overnight. Well, except for things like Github issues and pull requests, nobody bothers to archive those unfortunately.
But yeah, IMO the danger is moreso that the attacks are leading to a massive chilling effect and loss of developer talent in the emulation community.
I hope they dont go for dolphin or cemu claiming that certain games are in their e-shop for the switch 2 release.
That’s exactly what I’m afraid of
Flathub ia still available to whoever needs it
People think emulator protections in the law are stronger than they really are. Sony vs Connectix made emulation legal, but it wasn’t heard by the supreme court. PS1 games weren’t encrypted and relied on other methods like disc wobble to prevent piracy…so without proactively violating any measures you could just not include that check in your competing emulator and play retail discs without breaking any laws.
In steps the DMCA anti-circumvention laws for bypassing video game / console encryption measures, which is an even bigger untested minefield without precedent in favor of emulation. And since games are default encrypted on new consoles and arguably not subject to exemption (at least while still supported) it really might be a disaster to fight it.
Nintendo is a dick but it’s not in our interest or theirs to really push the boundary on the status quo. The get to slap suit whatever they want taken down, we get to play the emulation hydra game where it’s still legally grey.
Personally I don’t give a flying Fuck what the law says, breaking copyright is the only thing preventing the world from being more of a dystopian nightmare with subscription mice and trains that break down if you take them to a mechanic and I can’t wait for someone in china or India to take the Open source code and make a better emulator.
I care what the law says if it’s wrong.
I don’t much care of what is said, when it is just. I’m more concerned with those who claim to know the difference
If they had an actual plan or history of preserving games I’d not care about emulator development. But with the industry track record being so poor we need emulators if for nothing else for preservation.
So much culturally interesting data has already been lost to time which I bet future historians would absolutely love to have access to. The internet archive is missing much of the early internet, while old iPhone and Android apps are largely unable to be run even if you have the APK/IPA required,
I will always say this in these “Nintendo shuts down beloved fan project” threads: why don’t the people working on these projects operate anonymously and release via torrent? I feel like I’ve been reading the same story for 20 years. It shouldn’t come as a surprise to anyone at this point that Nintendo will come after you.
This is the first time they’ve been suing emulator developers.
Yeah! And they’ve been so cool and supportive of the gaming community thus far, <3 nintendo https://www.thegamer.com/a-snapshot-of-nintendos-convoluted-legal-history/
And because these are never finished projects. People can rant and rave about cloning the git all day, but without active, knowledgeable developers with the knowledge of the original dev team, these projects are dead. It’s not about using the emulators as they exist today… it’s about continuing to keep them working going forward. Anything that releases in the last year or two of the Switch’s life is now at risk of being lost forever into Nintendo’s archives.
Anything that releases in the last year or two of the Switch’s life is now at risk of being lost forever into Nintendo’s archives.
Somebody will archive it, for two reasons: 1) data hoarders and 2) hacked Switches.
Sure, it will be as playable as it is right now, right as the project shuts down. Any updates or improvements? Any new games? Only if someone else takes up the mantle and risks having world police nintendo suing them
I assume emulator development will continue eventually. Who knows when that will be, though.
The thing that sucks is that I’m in the middle of a couple of games, so if something upgrades and Ryujinx isn’t compatible, I’m hosed.
Because emulation is legal. It shouldn’t have to be hidden. This was taken through the courts in 2001 with the Sony vs Bleem lawsuit.
What appears to be happening is Nintendo is abusing its power and money to make threats of legal action that these groups just can’t afford to fight, even though they haven’t done anything illegal. It should be coming as a surprise that Nintendo is coming for them, because this is completely legal, and not some fan game using Nintendo IP (which is what they normally shut down).
Legal in the US. I think this guy is in Brazil.
Is nintendo the source of the “come to brazil” meme? 🤔
Emulation might be legal, but it’s software specifically designed to run illegal copies of the games.
I dislike Nintendo, but I can’t blame them for taking down that kind of software development. They’re still selling many of their old games through their own store for their own emulators. They’re perhaps charging way too much for it and/or lock it behind a subscription wall, even if you ever bought the original copies. Absolute garbage business practice, but from the corporate point of view I can see why they go after emulators. Especially since it’s easier to take those down than trying to go after all digital emulator copies of the games (if not impossible).
They’re probably gonna try and set an example to scare off others trying to make new emulators too.
It is made for various things like game development. When my company was working on remastering a GameCube game, Nintendo themselves handed us a devkit, and we used the dolphin emulator to play the original game and compare gameplay and performance.
Is it illegal to copy your own Nintendo games?
It is not illegal to make backup copies for yourself of games you have purchased and own.
As shitty as it is, yes.
I can’t blame them for taking down that kind of software development.
Your not being able to blame them is completely irrelevant. Nintendo can not like stuff all it wants. The question is if it is LEGAL. If it is, and it is, your defense of their actions is a defense of the argument that they should be above the law because they don’t like something, and that’s an absolutely TERRIBLE position to take. You don’t need to white knight for Nintendo. They have more money than God and taking up their fights for them against your own rights as a consumer is so far beyond Stockholm Syndrome that I don’t think we even have a word for it yet.
Feel like you failed to read and grasp what I said.
Never said I agreed with what they’re doing, I am not white knighting them. I frankly don’t give a shit what Nintendo does and doesn’t and what they’ll lose over it.
I was just stating an observation from a business point of view.
It’s also legal to own guns in some countries, doesn’t make it legal to use it to just shoot at anything, and it’s even more ridiculous to assume that everyone buying/owning guns has good intentions. There are many countries where owning a gun isn’t legal, as well as making copies of products you’ve bought, even for personal backup.
And to believe that people use emulation exclusively for their own backups is insanely naive.
If guns are sold legally, it means that there is the assumption that everyone buying them has good intentions.
I gave you the benefit of the doubt that maybe I didn’t grasp what you said, but reading your reply it seems like I grasped it fine.
Here’s the thing. People use emulators for piracy. That is also COMPLETELY and totally irrelevant to the discussion. The right to developing emulators is well-established, and game preservation isn’t even the most important consequence. The right to developing emulators is what allows virtualization that forms the backbone of server architecture, as well as running legacy code from old architectures on modern hardware, alleviating the need for thousands of man hours in rewriting tried and tested code. 20 years in the future, when the IoTs stupidity litters millions of homes with inaccessible, useless plastic garbage, emulation of no longer supported control units will be a panacea.
Nintendo is totally free to not like the law, but it is the law, and this pressure to shut down these projects is a flagrant violation of the developers’ legal rights, which regardless of the morality of piracy is a disgusting flouting of the legal system.
People use guns to murder, yes. But whether you or I think it’s correct or not, the law does not hold gun makers liable for the things their users do with them. We can’t just DECIDE that there are exceptions to the law and begin prosecuting or acting as if they are liable. That requires either a new law or an interpretation by a court to set a precedent - not lawyers sending a cease and desist to Smith & Wesson. That is a slippery slope to an absolutely nightmarish dystopia.
There is no justifying this in a “Well, I can see why they did it…” sense any more than in a murder case. The law is clear. The established rights of the developers are clear. The right to make a Switch emulator is NOT Nintendo’s right to give or deny like a trademark dispute or the ability to make a fan game. They don’t GET a say. The right to make an emulator is explicitly YOURS by LAW. And a giant corporation has taken their money and used it to violate established rights with threat of bankruptcy in violation of that established law. If you believe in the rule of law, no matter what you think of piracy, that should be utterly haunting.
That may be the main reason why people use or even create emulators, but there are still legitimate uses for emulators. It’s like banning couples from riding the same motorcycle because two people on a bike is usually a robbery.
Nice metaphor, is it your original?
To be fair, it’s software specifically designed to run digital backups of what’s supposed to be personally owned media. It just so happens that it’s very easy to obtain a copy otherwise, but there’s nothing inherently illegal about it or the games.
Strong arming independent projects, and individual developers especially, that are very careful to not endorse that, effectively holding them accountable for others, is morally questionable at best.
From a theoretical point of view, emulators of modern consoles may actually be illegal. Under the DMCA, emulation for preservation is protected as a periodically-renewed exemption list defined by the library of congress. But, (paraphrasing) “creating or distributing any hardware or software device—or component of such—designed to circumvent DRM technology” is still illegal irrespective of any exemptions. A reasonable (and bullshit) interpretation of that means that any emulator which is capable of bypassing any DRM features (such as decrypting ROM using user-provided keys) is a violation under the act.
I say theoretical because it hasn’t ever actually been tested in a court. Nintendo v. Tropic Haze LLC nearly gave us the answer, but the latter chose to settle instead.
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What do you think emulation is?
Copying your own copy of a game and using tools for compatibility is what we’re talking about, is protected, and already has the case law demonstrating so.
The Sony verdict didn’t establish emulation as legal
At most you find that it established using mods/creating derivatives is illegal
And on the low end it found that using pictures from competitors in advertising as comparison isn’t illegal
This is like if a pedestrian gets struck by a car while on a crosswalk. Yeah, they were allowed to be there… but they should have looked both ways before crossing the street.
This is a case of people being idealistic rather than practical.
Incidentally, this is a perfect example, because the automotive industry ran a series of ad campaigns to change public sentiment after cars got more common and children and elderly citizens started dying in the streets.
Nintendo is working equally hard to change public sentiment against the innocent.
Source: https://www.vox.com/2015/1/15/7551873/jaywalking-history
You’re talking about blame assignment, but I am instead referring to the fact that in both the Nintendo and the automotive example that somebody got smacked because they weren’t careful enough.
Somebody got smacked because they were told that this was a safe area to be in. Then they get hit, and are blamed for not being careful enough in the area they were told was safe to be in.
Like I said above, everyone coming through here is so obsessed with talking about blame and fault. That’s not what I’m talking about at all. I’m saying that if Ryujinx wanted to avoid this outcome, they should have done things differently.
See, no mention of blame at all. How else do I need to spell things out for the extremely autistic and pedantic crowd here?
if Ryujinx wanted to avoid this outcome, they should have done things differently
How do you not read this as blame? Or, is this not the same as “they had it coming, wouldn’t have happened if they’d been dressed in armour or hadn’t gone down that street alone” which is often known as victim blaming.
Oh, there’s a wiki article on that. It has a section on the thing you’re arguing about, with cars and pedestrians Neat. Maybe this is why people are talking about it.
ITT: people not understanding the difference between BLAME and OUTCOME and downvoting you because of it. Incidentally, I also read a thread earlier today that talked about declining literacy in adults…
Being right and being suddenly under a car are not mutually exclusive.
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Nintendo didn’t put legal pressure on emulator devs for decades at this point, which made devs less cautious about preserving their pseudonymity.
Now it’s too late and they can’t stop Nintendo from finding out who they are and which mistakes they did at some point over the years.
Maybe a new generation of emulator developers will be more protective of their identity, by using hosting providers like Njalla or privacy networks like i2p. The latter would limit access (as it requires i2p), which isn’t desirable for most users.
While that’s true, it’s incredibly reductive to a baseline of “nintendo should win because they are powerful and others aren’t”
How many of these emulators were shut down through legal action or threat of legal action? I mean, the list goes on and on
https://emulation.gametechwiki.com/index.php/PlayStation_emulators https://emulation.gametechwiki.com/index.php/PlayStation_2_emulators https://emulation.gametechwiki.com/index.php/PlayStation_3_emulators https://www.ppsspp.org/ https://emulation.gametechwiki.com/index.php/PlayStation_Vita_emulators https://emulation.gametechwiki.com/index.php/Xbox_emulators https://emulation.gametechwiki.com/index.php/Xbox_360_emulators
Oh right, this happened https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Computer_Entertainment,_Inc._v._Connectix_Corp.
Nintendo is using every action possible to stop switch emulation, because, unlike other publishers, they don’t produce any advanced or specific hardware anymore, and they purely survive through their IP.
I can’t wait until you kids grow up and realize you’re not entitled to everything.
who said they where entitled to this. Nentendo is the one who is acting entitled, Netendo did not put in any work, employees at nentendo did, but they where not payed the full value of their labor. Copy right for ever and ever was only 20 years now its essentaly forever, no way for these to legaly enter the public domain.
Given the 2 sides I would say Nentendo, who has more money than god, is the entitled ones
I agree. We should realize the following:
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There are things we are not entitled to.
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There are things we are entitled to.
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There is Nintendo’s opinion on which is which.
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There’s someone else’s opinion on which is which.
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There’s law which should be a dignified compromise between these.
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The law may or may not be such a compromise.
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Our obligations before law mirror our rights.
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Our engagement with law mirrors our participation in forming it.
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We have been robbed of that ability and raise our voice where it matters.
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Hence Nintendo’s opinion and said law don’t matter shit.
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‘Free’ always tastes better. It’s my favourite word. Free. It’s free. For free. 0 dollars. Gratis. Free of cost. On the house. Never had buyers remorse from acquiring something for free
My second favourite is ‘Cheap’
Especially when the cheap or free service is better than the expensive service.
Ok Boomer
Entitled? Nintendo didn’t produce this code nor did they make this, what exactly do you think is being demanded of Nintendo?
‘offered an agreement’
So bribed them?
They sent people to his house
I’m Brazil
motherfucker had goons sicced on him
I’m Brazil
hi Brazil, I’m Dad!
Hi dad, I’m Brazil 💪😟💪
FWIW Brazil has the largest population of Japanese people outside of Japan.
Probably more of a “Do x, y, and z and we agree not to sue you about it”
If Nintendo is smart, they should offer a job. Those guys most probably know more about those systems than many of their employees. And also Nintendo develops emulators for their online service. They could clearly profit by hiring them.
Make good sense
I’m now pretty sure we got our last Nintendo switch game. I’m not going to buy out kids anything Nintendo anymore. They are the most recent RIAA.
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that is typically how boycotts work yes.
Nestle isn’t poisoning their bottled water but some people still refuse to buy it.
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Are you suggesting that no one is allowed to see Nintendo do a new bad thing and say “I’m no longer willing to give them my money”?
Not to mention there’s nothing ‘amicable’ about a massive corporation, infamous for their lawsuits, approaching a single programmer with a deal that is obviously the only way to avoid being sued, despite the fact that emulators are legal.
If someone purchases a Switch game they have every right to back it up and use an emulator to play it. Instead of strongarming these projects into submission, the ethical thing would be working with them to sell legal access to ROMs.
why now all of a sudden
It’s not new though, it has been happening for years. Selection bias might be skewing your view.
That was their point lol
This is arguably the tamest thing Nintendo has done recently, so it’s a weird final straw
I should have articulated my point better. I meant that this has been the “final straw” for some people for most of those steps along the way in the picture. If you look at the comments from then it’s often the same kind of thing you’re seeing right now. That’s why I mentioned selection bias, because there are actually lots of final straws happening over time, people just aren’t seeing those or weren’t around then.
Yup
I don’t even have a single Nintendo or game of any sort. My kids got dupped by YouTube and so now it’s either cry or pay for that shit…a few years ago… Today though, they are old enough to get pissed at things. I shall explain what Nintendo is doing so that they make better choices in the future.
fuck Nintendo and fuck fanboys who defend them at every turn. breath of the wild was a 7/10 game
BOTW is not a real Zelda game IMHO.
All the more reason to buy their next system at V1.0 with 0 games.
…keep it in the box for a year and keep an eye on a hack hitting the news.
I desperately wanted a switch 2 and been gaming on my mac using emu and a handful of native games until release.
But at this point I’ll probably pick up the ps5 or steam deck just to avoid these folks ^
The Steam Deck is a great option, I have a hub to be able to play on my TV, and don’t tell Nintendo, but a lot of Switch games run nicely.
I have an SD full of every NES-N64 game with a bunch of GameCube thrown in too, it’s a beautiful thing. Plus gyro on old GameCube games is pretty funny
Lol great advice, probably runs them better and SD card sounds like a dream
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yeah I probably overrated it
You know ratings are inherently subjective right?
I say this as a die-hard 3D Zelda fan:
I was soooo boooored in BOTW! There was no current main story. It all happened in the past. You’re basically playing through the climax the entire time. And I hated it. I mainly play Zelda for the story, and this was a very poorly told one.
TOTK was somewhat better because it gave us better characters (I will die for Tulin), a bit better characterization (I enjoyed Zelda getting a lot more fleshed out this time), and a somewhat better story… but there were still way too many reused story beats. That is to say, the story was fleshed out much better, but they still reused the overall story structure from BOTW (get the memories fight the four bosses in the four temples, etc.). They did add a fifth temple and a mid-game story thing, but that’s mostly it. They also didn’t even acknowledge how similar some things were to their counterparts in BOTW (ex. the
MaliceGloom), which really bothered me. Also, some stuff just felt… unfinished. Like the reporter bird who, by the end of it all, just ends up pondering and trying to figure himself out… and that’s it. It felt like setup for DLC, but there wasn’t any.… That was a very unintentionally long rant.
To summarize: hated BOTW; somewhat enjoyed TOTK, though it could’ve been much better.
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I’ve hated every cartoony zelda ever made. I will die playing LttP over and over again.
Link Between Worlds was awesome as well.
I would consider that cartoony as well. You might disagree but that’s ok. I’m not trying to pretend like my opinion is popular, it’s just how I personally feel.
Botw is easily a 9/10 for me . Totk too. I really like Nintendos take on open world. However, I still appreciate the other Zelda games a lot and I hope they don’t completely abandon that linear formula
The world is interactive but bland. Except a few scenic vistas, there’s nothing interesting about the botw’s open world.
Fuck Nintendo. All they have done is ensure I never buy one of their products again.
Same! In fact, I have a switch, but tears of the kingdom was the last thing I bought for it.
I’ve skipped everything else. It’s not worth supporting an evil company.
Knew that was coming, at some point… I wonder if anyone grabbed copies of the git repos.
I’ve seen a few floating around.
If anyone has the git repo downloaded, they have a copy of it (from when they last pulled)
Archive org has it
Yeah, this is dumb.
I own original hardware and buy 100% of my games but sometimes you just wanna run games that aren’t originally crossplatform on your Steamdeck for convenience, or on a PC with resolution upscaling, or for ease of streaming the gameplay, or tons of other legitimate reasons.
Nintendo has some great IP and gameplay, and I guarantee you their sales are not meaningfully hurt by people who pirate/emulate games. Those people were never their customers anyway. If anything the emulation community enabled streamers to boost the popularity of their games. (People like PointCrow did more for the sustained popularity of BOTW than all of Nintendo’s marketing efforts combined)
I own original hardware and buy 100% of my games but sometimes you just wanna run games that aren’t originally crossplatform on your Steamdeck for convenience, or on a PC with resolution upscaling, or for ease of streaming the gameplay, or tons of other legitimate reasons.
Can’t wait until our courts decide that, due to the prevalence of “remasters” that are just upscaled ROMs running on emulators, that this is no longer considered “fair use.”
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I was one of them but I also had my physical game pre-ordered so…
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And I guarantee a lot, if not most, of those people didn’t even have Switches. If Nintendo had released a PC version they would have sold a ton more.
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No, because if they wanted a Switch, they would have bought one.
But that’s on Nintendo. For those people the game doesn’t cost $70, it costs $200+ even if they buy a used Switch lite. Nintendo is deliberately leveraging their games to make people buy their console when those people just want to buy the game.
They want to have their cake and eat it too, and that is most likely one of the biggest reasons people pirated TOTK.
leveraging their games to make people buy their console when those people just want to buy the game
That’s the whole point of exclusive titles and every console vendor does it.
Everybody doing it doesn’t change the fact that it’s a bad thing for customers and a reason for piracy.
I’m one of those weirdos who actually dumps all my own games with my own modded launch Switch mainly for preservation purposes.
But then TotK came out and performed so poorly on the console itself, I exported my save to play on PC and Steam Deck. Every part of my Switch emulation journey has been legal and by-the-book: dumped my own firmware, my own keys, and my own games.
Fuck Nintendo for bullying these developers.
A lot of people resort to emulation simply so they can play mods too.
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Those are two different situations.
There isn’t enough paying for shit that’s gonna make a mod run in an unmodified console. You can find people who have bought every single Pokémon game ever, and they still want to play romhacks and randomizers and such.
There’s something to be said about how willing people are to pay and whether they admit it or why. But sounds more like you don’t want to believe there’s any other reason to do it.
Eh, you’re applying generalizations universally. These last couple weeks, I literally bought Zelda Echoes of Wisdom day one, even bought NSO vouchers so I can buy the next big game that comes out. Day one, I dumped the game from my own modded switch, and started playing it on Ryujinx rather than on my Switch.
I modded the game to change the resolution to always 1080p native, remove the double buffered vsync issue to smooth out the framerate and let VRR work, boosted LODs for better distant assets, and swapped the UI for Xbox controls. Ryujinx also let me play at 2x internal resolution, so I could run the game at native 4k.
My game looks sharper, runs smoother, and is a lot of fun to tinker with. I’ve had a blast checking gamebanana every day for new mods, or for Ryujinx patches. I love it, and I’m preferring that experience to Switch. I’m also getting fun stuff like discord rich presence, and being able to record with my GPU driver, stream my gameplay to discord, play with a controller I prefer to a Pro Controller, everything.
I’m also looking forward to tinkering with mods for unlimited echoes once I beat the game. I’m more than happy to pay for the game, but this is much more fun for me, and trades blows with the real hardware experience well enough that I’d much rather play here than on Switch.
Yep, sure do.
keeps pirating
How about a link to it instead of a discord screenshot jfc
It’s the Ryujinx discord. You’re looking at a primary source. You linked a secondary source.
Well at least paste the text of the message
What do they think they achieve with this?
Forcing people to purchase the Switch 2 for their handheld needs, obviously </sarcasm>
@nichtburningturtle @mr_MADAFAKA not sure, there’s already like 500 forks up, may the one with the coolest name win.
it’s in the repo for basically any linux distribution too so the source and executables are mirrored on literally thousands of servers and easily downloadable, so absolute worst case scenario it’s version froze at 1.1.1388 for the time being.
all that happened to yuzu is a slight name change so i don’t expect much more here.
all that happened to yuzu is a slight name change so i don’t expect much more here.
All of the commits for Suyu, the most active yuzu “fork” this year is like 20 different readme/URL changes, lol. Nintendo 100% succeeded in killing it.
@nichtburningturtle @mr_MADAFAKA confirmed, the full git history up to yesterday is preserved and already mirrored all over, so it’s all good 👍
What kinda question is that? Mobbing the developers out of switch emulation.
The only two options where you and ryujinx and they are both taken out, all the forks are jokes because the developers that had real abilities worked on the main projects.
