Asking as there has been a few comments mentioning this with the new [email protected] taking over [email protected]
[email protected] for additional context on those recent events if you are interested
Also, an older post for more context on how lemmy.ml is managed: https://lemmy.world/post/16211417
Curious to hear other thoughts about this, as I’m trying to keep [email protected] active, but might suggest to move it elsewhere if a lot of people prefer not to interact with lemmy.ml communities
I wish that political ideology wasn’t such a thing to worry about on Lemmy. It’s sadly easy to find extremist content, even on the homepage, when you’re not logged in.
100% of the people I’ve recommended Lemmy to irl have not only been turned away by exactly that but then actually give me dirty looks for having recommended it to them.
We who block such tend to forget: a new user faces a very different experience, full of e.g. calls to murder landlords and sometimes even people with like just bank accounts.
Imagine if this was NSFW content that wasn’t labelled as such! Which is highly ironic bc I find that NSFW content is extremely well-behaved on Lemmy?! :-P
Sadly, politically extremist rhetoric refuses to label itself in like manner:-(.
Wait, I’ve certainly read this comment before…
[email protected]! I wish a lot more posts would go there, but sadly it is still the most recent one after all this time.
I’m more of an anarchist and I’ve not had issues with hexbear or .ml, though I don’t block lemmygrad I’m not subbed to most of their communities mostly because sectarianism bothers me.
I feel like I always have to check if I’m posting on something that’s on .world because even relatively mild off-color humor can get removed as “incivility” if it rubs a mod the wrong way.
I block all .ml communities when I see them pop up. I’m somewhere between 200-300 blocked communities at the moment (not exclusively .ml though).
This succinctly covers my view on it as well. I think it’ll be more of a problem a few years down the road as statist admin culture begins to influence the mods of more communities there, but for now I treat it on an community-by-community, user-by-user basis. I wouldn’t be surprised if a majority of community leaders and users in general that went to lemmy.ml simply did because it was one of the larger instances last year and didn’t think much more of it than that.
If I have a choice, though, I’ll still try to grow a community on one of the smaller instances simply because it’s still one of the largest ones, and that’s better for the health of the network.
I came to ani.social to avoid being federated with those brain rott morons.
I’m glad literal Nazis like yourself are choosing to self segregate. If you people would just do that in real life the world would be better.
K. Go to lemmygrad and stay there in your totally not nazi bouble.
Of the two of us, you’re the only one that has expressed empathy for a openly Nazi state doing a genocide while actively invading peaceful neighbors and shooting UN troops.
K. As said, go play with the other lemmygrad trolls. You obviously have below 0 education on the topic and you are only willing to get more Desinformation.
You’re proof stalin shouldn’t have stopped until he hit the Pacific through the Atlantic.
As said, get your sock puppet and go to lemmygrad, stay there and don’t put your ass text below my eyes ever again or so god help you.
Go ahead and do whatever you think you can my family survived Nazis once, we’ll survive you again.
The irony of this comment…
“What will help me win this debate with an apologist for ethnic cleansing? I know, I’ll just do ethnic cleansing apologia even harder!”
Ethnic cleansing wasn’t a thing in the ussr, the socially progressive of the two world powers at the time. Stalin did unapologetically kill lots of Nazis though. That was good despite your Nazi apologia propaganda.
Says the Zionist piece of shit, cheering on a genocide.
Yes.
Are you saying you’re actually pro-genocide? Kind of a fucked up thing to say even in jest dude.
K. Go cry in your mom’s basement.
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Be gone China troll!
Taiwan 🇹🇼:
China🤡:
动态网自由门 天安門 天安门 法輪功 李洪志 Free Tibet 六四天安門事件 The Tiananmen Square protests of 1989 天安門大屠殺 The Tiananmen Square Massacre 反右派鬥爭 The Anti-Rightist Struggle 大躍進政策 The Great Leap Forward 文化大革命 The Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution 人權 Human Rights 民運 Democratization 自由 Freedom 獨立 Independence 多黨制 Multi-party system 台灣 臺灣 Taiwan Formosa 中華民國 Republic of China 西藏 土伯特 唐古特 Tibet 達賴喇嘛 Dalai Lama 法輪功 Falun Dafa 新疆維吾爾自治區 The Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region 諾貝爾和平獎 Nobel Peace Prize 劉暁波 Liu Xiaobo 民主 言論 思想 反共 反革命 抗議 運動 騷亂 暴亂 騷擾 擾亂 抗暴 平反 維權 示威游行 李洪志 法輪大法 大法弟子 強制斷種 強制堕胎 民族淨化 人體實驗 肅清 胡耀邦 趙紫陽 魏京生 王丹 還政於民 和平演變 激流中國 北京之春 大紀元時報 九評論共産黨 獨裁 專制 壓制 統一 監視 鎮壓 迫害 侵略 掠奪 破壞 拷問 屠殺 活摘器官 誘拐 買賣人口 遊進 走私 毒品 賣淫 春畫 賭博 六合彩 天安門 天安门 法輪功 李洪志 Winnie the Pooh 劉曉波动态网自由门
Go play on Chines media to not get your social score destroyed.
no, I’m subbed to many communities on .ml
Yes.
Lemmygrad.ml and hexbear.net definitely.
Lemmy.ml has some less-bonkers communities, but [email protected] generates some of the most complaints, and I’m willing to paint with a broad brush on this one. There’s only one community that I can think of that I regret not using and doesn’t presently have a non-lemmy.ml alternative, and that’s [email protected], and [email protected] has overlap. Also, aside from issues with instance policy, I think that lemmy.ml in particular is not a great instance for major communities, because it’s the “dev” instance and Lemmy has had some serious periods of problems where stuff slipped through testing and led to major problems in new releases. Lemmy.world did not hit this, because the admins there are more-conservative about updating, held off until they were sure that new releases were solid. My own home instance at lemmy.today crashed into repeated serious problems with new releases, and the admin decided that in the future, he would also be more conservative about updates.
I also think that it’s broader than disagreeing with someone. I’m not a furry or trans, for example, but I’ve no problem with pawb.social or lemmy.blahaj.zone and have never seen any complaints about moderation on those special-interest instances. However, there’s an entire community, [email protected], that highlights a lot of moderation and infighting stuff that often I’d call pretty unreasonable off in .ml land. Beehaw.org is pretty left-wing, but they’re pretty mellow and don’t have the same issues (though they themselves have defederated with a number of major lemmy instances, including, most notably, lemmy.world).
That being said, a number of major lemmy instances have defederated with lemmygrad.ml and hexbear.net, and I chose my home instance of lemmy.today specifically because it did not defederate with instances. I want to personally make the call on instance content and on users on an instance. I’ve only ever blocked one user, and they were just relentlessly spamming images in communities, and I’ve never blocked an instance. I normally just view communities by subscribed, look at a “whitelist” of communities, not “all” plus a blacklist, though.
EDIT: Oh, and [email protected] doesn’t presently have an alternative, and I’d definitely participate in a non-.ml alternative.
I also think that it’s broader than disagreeing with someone. I’m not a furry or trans, for example, but I’ve no problem with pawb.social or lemmy.blahaj.zone and have never seen any complaints about moderation on those special-interest instances.
Thank you for pointing this out, that’s a good point
I have seen complaints about them, but they seem relatively minor and resulting from an overzealous attempt to protect their users, which I find understandable. I have never had anything but pleasant conversations with Ada the instance admin of lemmy.blahaj.zone and have thoroughly enjoyed everything I’ve ever read from them.
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Okay but while everything has its downsides… not equally so.
What if one day you were no longer allowed to discuss Linux? Or Teslas? Or whatever else the admins decided were now forbidden topics? Btw without telling you what those topics are. Also, if you even so much as accidentally mention the names of such, you lose access to the entire Fediverse from your account (on that instance).
It doesn’t even matter what topic material the admins of lemmy.ml have decided to block - Russia, China, Ukraine, Uyghurs, Taiwan, North Korea, North Carolina, Israel, Palestine, Gaza, it doesn’t matter. What matters is that they have set themselves up as the arbiters of “truth(iness)” and ban anyone from every community across the entire instance, even those they have never even heard of.
And then they dictate those rules - which again, are nowhere written down, plus not all that easy to guess at (let’s see… the USA does genocide, but Russia does too? no wait, Russia can do no wrong - that’s it! Oh shit, too late, already banned!:-P) - and hold all of the content on every community across the entire instance hostage to those rules.
I came here from Reddit to get away from such. Oopsie, it’s here too.
Do whatever you want, ofc :-) I just hope that I explained this position well enough to convey that nuanced take that some actions are worth holding apart from others. This isn’t merely a minor inconvenience imho - it’s a major breach of the principles that many of us came here to support in the Fediverse, cited as being free and open source, except apparently the set of rules are not open to be read anywhere at all.
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One of my sentences there was a hypothetical written as if that were the case yes, but I did note that you were not from there, and the rest pertains to people trying to communicate with communities on that instance. Anyway, do whatever you want - I tried to offer an interesting counterexample but I’m not going to try to brow-beat you with anything. This isn’t Reddit - we can leave those modes behind us, if we want.
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Well said.:-)
but there are quite a few “tech”-oriented instances over which my trigger finger is itching on the site ban trigger.
Which ones? Lemmy.zip, lemdro.id, programming.dev?
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I guess there’s a difference between not liking an instance, and the mods or admins power tripping and not following their own rules.
Sh.itjust.works for instance seems appreciated by almost everyone, except maybe for their name
Yes!
That instance just has a stink on it.
I’m sure there’s some normal users or communities bit there’s a lot who are just plain unpleasant to interact with.
This is something that that bothers me… I joined lemmy.ml around 3 years ago as one of the pirate subs on reddit made a backup community there in case they were banned.
Fast forward to the api debacle, I started to use lemmy as a permanent alternative, and made 3 of my favourite art communities- abstract photography, collage and printmaking
It’s always been in the back (and sometimes the front of my mind) whether to move them elsewhere, partly because people commenting on their ‘blanket ban’ of lemmy.ml, and the fact that I sometimes feel that I’m on one of the ‘pariah’ instances.
It’s interesting reading the comments here, especially considering the art communities are laid back, without politics, and haven’t had any issues (so far)…
Moving communities is always an option.
We moved [email protected] to [email protected] a while ago, it worked fine, it’s even more active now that it used to be as there is no delay due to LW size
Yep, it’s something that has occurred to me, I’ve got an idea of which instance and all that, but I’d probably need to speak with the admins. I don’t know whether communities can migrate over posts/comments etc and part of me is reluctant to leave all that behind… BUT, I’ve done it once from scratch, so it’s not impossible
I do agree that art subs in general are among the most politics-free areas of lemmy, (speaking as a moderator of traditional art)
I have mostly refrained from posting political art, even though I do really like a good caricature (I grew up on Spitting Image, and other British satire progs), and also political art is, well… art
But, people come to see the nice pictures and chill out for a bit, which is fair, and it’s good to have that as a community
Although if other people either get banned as a result of saying something about China or Russia etc., or they choose for themselves to defederate somehow, then over time that is an increasing number of people across the Fediverse who cannot enjoy that artwork.
It’s like… what if the Library of Alexandria had made some copies and sent it out to remote places, before being (accidentally?) burned down by Julius Caesar during his civil war?
If that artwork is important to be seen by people everywhere, then why allow it to be held hostage by an admin team that could at any moment add still more things to the unnamed list of topics that are forbidden to be discussed on that instance? China, Russia, Uyghurs, Ukraine, Israel, Palestine, Gaza, Taiwan, and… what else will it be tomorrow?
You might even say something that gets taken out of context and be banned from the entire instance yourself. “Killing Uyghurs is not the best work I have seen” - no no, I meant that killing them isn’t happening at all, I was referring to the title of the painting!?
Well, it’s something to consider. I hope I am not coming across here as being too extreme, just trying to offer some thoughts along the lines that you mentioned that you have already started, in case it would be appreciated.:-)
…I hope I am not coming across here as being too extreme…
Not at all, you’ve basically summed up how I feel, plus added something I hadn’t considered which is what would happen if I was banned from .ml for a post or comment. I’ve got a few days holiday to have a think about it all and also ask the community… I don’t want to make top down ‘executive decisions’ without consultation
Cheers 👍
Indeed it is good to think ahead, rather than make rash decisions:-).
I mentioned elsewhere, to the developers of PieFed that I will switch to, that Dessalines is still an ally in the flight against for-profit corporate control over everything, e.g. Reddit, Facebook, Threads, X, etc. But while I have ENORMOUS respect for having offered the Lemmy codebase, the way he runs his personal instance… it’s not all good, nor all bad, but definitely does have more worrisome elements than most Lemmy or Mastodon instances.
The lack of transparency in governance in particular, as well as how heavy-handed it is, and again the fact that the unwritten rules are so hard to guess at, and could change at any time. It leaves people feeling insecure in the situation, which seems to make it unreliable, unless you constantly dance to his tune, which he never states quite what that is. And even if you never so much as mention e.g. Ukraine or Uyghurs or Gaza, the fact that someone else in your community could, and therefore mandatorily become booted from the community (along with the entire instance), is not ideal. The rules merely state that Lemmy.ml is “A community of privacy and FOSS enthusiasts, run by Lemmy’s developers.” - but there’s far more (politics) going on besides that.
At least Reddit was more honest about Huffman’s opinion - “you are landed gentry and I will harvest your data and no longer allow third-party apps unless they pay my exorbitant fee”. Okay… good to know I guess.
Anyway, if I helped any then I am glad ☺️.
For me it was a blanket ban that finally caused me to unsubscribe from every ml community. If it wasn’t for that then it might be OK to keep hosting a non-political sub but the censorship over there is so aggressive and widespread that it’s very difficult to avoid.
I would say think about migration because if anything the problem is getting worse over time.
Instance blocked it. The mods are corrupt and actively shape conversation to align with their world view, without transparency.
It’s fine to disagree, and want respectful discourse, but it isn’t ok to use very vague sidebar rules to scour dissent
I have the instance blocked. Nice thing about Lemmy, you can vote with your attention. When toxic bubbles pop up, you can ignore them en masse. Any collateral blocking doesn’t bother me. [insert Nazi party meme]
I have fomo so I don’t block anything. I’ll downvote and move on if I see something that I feel needs a downvote
Blocked the instance along with hexbear. So I think it would be good to drain the good communities from them if you can.
I refrain from sharing links to it and prefer others. This is because it’s very easy to be banned
