• grue@lemmy.world
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    7 days ago

    Democracy supporters have to win every single time, while the fascists only have to win once. This is not a sustainable situation. We have to do what is necessary in a way that’s a lot more permanent than just winning an election.

    • Cornelius_Wangenheim@lemmy.world
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      7 days ago

      That’s only going to happen if the side in favor of democracy is given a decisive victory. Squeaking out another win isn’t going to be enough.

      • explodicle@sh.itjust.works
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        6 days ago

        Did Harris have any pro-democracy stuff in her platform, like ending FPTP or the Electoral College? Trump campaigned on bad election reforms like ID requirements and same-day voting.

    • anarchrist@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      7 days ago

      I think a big part of this is rural over representation. Not even talking the senate, but the house to be fair should allot 1 rep per the minimum pop of any state, which would give us about 573 reps and like 676 electors for president. Hell if we did it as the founders intended, one per like 60k people we’d have a house of 5.6k members.

    • Xanis@lemmy.world
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      7 days ago

      That requires carrying this energy past the election cycle, regardless of the differences we may have on opinion, and coming together in agreement.

      Historically, the Left has been rather poor at banding together. We’re more likely to argue than get things done most of the time. So it’ll be an uphill battle for leaders of smaller groups across the Nation. First though, we need to make it past this hurdle.

        • Xanis@lemmy.world
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          7 days ago

          It’s still a choice that we should strive to utilize. Not doing so may mean not having that choice, or the illusion of one. I do agree though, it’s about time we shifted things back towards a better life for everyone.

        • bobs_monkey@lemm.ee
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          7 days ago

          “…The people can not be all, and always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions it is a lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. We have had 13. states independant 11. years. There has been one rebellion. That comes to one rebellion in a century and a half for each state. What country before ever existed a century and half without a rebellion? And what country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is it’s natural manure. Our Convention has been too much impressed by the insurrection of Massachusets: and in the spur of the moment they are setting up a kite to keep the hen yard in order. I hope in god this article will be rectified before the new constitution is accepted.”

          • Thomas Jefferson to William Stephens Smith, Nov 13, 1787
          • idiomaddict@lemmy.world
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            7 days ago

            Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon and pacify them.

            Good goddamn, Jefferson was wrong again. I bet this is what a lot of judges are thinking about when looking at J6 cases.

            • MonkeMischief@lemmy.today
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              7 days ago

              I also have this weird feeling that there was some assumption of gentleman’s decorum back then even with those one disagreed with.

              I appreciate his “forgive them, educate them, and move on” ideal. As if surely, once they’ve learned how things are, they will calm down! I wish it were that way.

              But I think he’d be (im/de)pressed with just how low the bar has fallen when it comes to civil human behavior, general education esp. in civic affairs, and practical reasoning. There is no line too far anymore. There is no punishment for violating foundational social contracts or civil discourse.

              One half is constantly flabbergasted that the other half keeps flagrantly violating the power of their office and saying “So what? I’m winning.”

              We’re just so far past the point of reason now.

              Edit: Also remember, Jefferson wrote this long before the Civil War. I believe his point in “forgive them and move on” was optimistically more in the interest of preserving the young Republic at all costs, rather than letting it crumble from the inside with internal feuds. (As is the fate of many rebellions)

              • Jiggle_Physics@lemmy.world
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                7 days ago

                Considering we had things like fist fight, a near fatal beating with a cane, etc on the floor of congress back then, I don’t think much of their old timey decorum

              • RedditRefugee69@lemmynsfw.com
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                7 days ago

                I don’t think your assumption is accurate. They famously started shooting at a government because they taxed them a little more than they wanted to be taxed (to pay for a war we started).

      • frezik@midwest.social
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        7 days ago

        They also had slaves. A lot of slaves. Maybe we shouldn’t accept their fight against tyranny at face value.

    • knightly the Sneptaur@pawb.social
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      7 days ago

      There was never any democracy here to save, and no way to make it sustainable without tearing down the constitution and starting over, and no way to hold a new constitutional convention that wouldn’t be poisoned by money and power from the start.

      • Sauerkraut@discuss.tchncs.de
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        7 days ago

        You’re not completely wrong. There are many aspects of our system that are deeplh undemocratic: the way that the donor class gatekeeps who is able to run, the way politicians serve lobbyists and donors over the public will, and the way that oligarchs own 95% of our news media all create an environment where the interests of the people are not represented by our government

    • Possibly linux@lemmy.zip
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      7 days ago

      So what, at you going to start the french US revolution? That seems like a extreme idea that probably won’t end well.

      The US is a democracy. There is no threat outside of the fake information spread by US adversaries. Even if the worse president is elected there still little danger because of the balance of power.

      Don’t believe me? Look at the past. The supreme court and congress has put the executive branch in its place before. There is not more danger now than there was centuries ago. The US system is far from perfect but it is well proven.

      • Sauerkraut@discuss.tchncs.de
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        7 days ago

        The supreme court and congress has put the executive branch in its place before.

        The SC betrayed democracy with Citizens United and again when they gave Trump immunity for his countless crimes while in office. Don’t forget that the SC openly take bribes from billionaires.

      • draneceusrex@lemmy.world
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        7 days ago

        I hope you are right, but excuse me for having doubts. Both Congress and SCOTUS is much more partisan than it was in the past. SCOTUS’s ruling on presidential immunity is a direct example, eroding the checks and balances within the Constitution. McConnell’s behavior and vote during the Jan 6th Impeachment trial is a second example. Trump’s first term in 2016 started with him having no idea what he was doing, so he depended on establishment Republicans who would act as the adults in the room. That term ended with him having fired all of them, and with an attempted coup to stay in power. So far there have been no repercussions to him doing so. So yeah, excuse me for being worried about a potential “dictator on day one” who wants to deport millions of “illegals”, would send the military against his political opponents who he has labeled the “enemy within”, and to completely purge career public servants for loyalists (are you looking forward to Hershal Walker managing our National Missile Defense?).

      • yesman@lemmy.world
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        7 days ago

        There is not more danger now than there was centuries ago

        The way you describe American history as “centuries” like we’re the Roman Empire or Egypt when we’ve only got 2.5 centuries to choose from.

        • rottingleaf@lemmy.world
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          6 days ago

          Being a continuation of England more or less, you’ve got more. Especially since those democratic traditions were pretty English in the beginning.

        • Possibly linux@lemmy.zip
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          7 days ago

          Fair but my point still stands. We’ve been here a long time and though much worse times. (The US civil war comes to mind)

          • MonkeMischief@lemmy.today
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            7 days ago

            (The US civil war comes to mind)

            I mean hey you’re right, we’re still here…but we’d really REALLY like to prevent a second one of those…From the reviews I’ve read it wasn’t a fun time for pretty much anybody involved.

            • Possibly linux@lemmy.zip
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              7 days ago

              There is no chance of a second civil war. The current “crisis” is artificial and brought on by the media.