This is a truly WTF moment about messed up responses to X11 session removal in Gnome.
2 weeks ago I published a blogpost about the upcoming plans of GNOME 49 and the eventual removal of the X11 session. Since then, instead of looking at feedback, bugs and issues related to the topic, we all collectively had to deal with the following, and I am not exaggerating one bit:
- Fascists and Nazis
- Wild Conspiracy Theories that make Qanon jealous
- “Concerned” Trolling about the Accessibility of the Wayland session
- A culture war where Wayland is Gay, and X11 is the glorious past they stole from you
In my wildest dreams I could have never made this shit up. You all need mandatory supervised access to the Internet from now on.
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The link is broken, unfortunately
Alternative URLs have been posted in thread.
There is no place for Fascists within the Open Source and Free Software communities or the society at large. You will never fester your poisonous roots here
So who took the blog post down at Gnome?
Article was taken down. Archive link: https://web.archive.org/web/20250624214542/https://blogs.gnome.org/alatiera/2025/06/23/the-fascist-maggots/
X11 AND Wayland are for degenerates, a distraction at best but mostly just something that wastes CPU cycles and RAM.
THE FUTURE IS TERMINAL!
THE FUTURE IS TERMINAL!
The past and present are also terminal.
obviously the future is shoving the ethernet cable up your ass and dialing in directly
That would explain 70% of the shit you can find on the internet
The future is ARCAN!
Thank you for this new rabbit hole that thanks to my pathological curiosity for software on the far side of normalcy i now HAVE to explore and waste time i should spend working on a project 😜
Oh, your welcome. It’s a great rabbit hole. I remember venturing down it for the first time some years ago. I’ve since been able to build arcan from source and get pipeworld working on void linux. It’s not daily drivable yet, (not for me at least) but it works, and it’s cool as fuck.
Gotta say, his latest post, Sunsetting Cursed Terminal Emulation, really reminded me of some programming woes you can read from The Unix Haters’ Handbook.
terminal emulators aren’t leaky abstractions, they’re quite literally the abstraction being leaked :-D.
\[email protected]
YES! i would love it if arcan/durden/lash-cat9 got some mainstream traction.
Kermit or nothing
I have been known to use XMODEM over
screenover telnet for file transfer.
On the one hand, the guy who wrote this blog post is kinda unhinged.
On the other hand, I’m kinda living for it and agree with his views.
So really it all evens out in the end.
I do think ditching X11 is still slightly premature. For all its more modern features, there’s still a lot that Wayland either hasn’t implemented yet or “can’t do” because of its “security model.”
Can you name something that’s missing? Because I can’t think of anything relevant.
Use NVIDIA as primary GPU on laptops (not offload)
https://www.phoronix.com/news/NVIDIA-R575-Wayland-PlansCurrently you can only set NVIDIA to offload some of the rendering, but not as primary GPU like X11
https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/NVIDIA_Optimus#Use_NVIDIA_graphics_only
Yeah nvidia is always a pita. But even that gets better.
Sure, Autokey doesn’t work.
What’s autokey?
It’s roughly equivalent to AutoHotKey on Windows. It’s an application that can intercept key combos or even typed strings and…do basically anything. Let’s say you type a certain phrase a lot, you could come up with an abbreviation so that when you type an abbreviation it deletes the abbreviation and inserts the big thing you type. Or maybe you want it to fire when you press ALT+ y. Or, maybe you want it to do something programmatic, like insert the date and time. Or do anything you can get Python to do.
This apparently does not work on Wayland systems, something about the way it accessed keystrokes in X11 isn’t open in Wayland for security concerns.
Honestly that sounds like a security nightmare and its probably a good thing that doesn’t work anymore.
Honestly if pressing some buttons to get the computer to do something you programmed it to do is a “security nightmare” I think we should probably just give up, tear down the electric grid and go back to dying of smallpox at 17 like nature intended.
That’s not problematic part. The reading all my inputs is.
I don’t know autokey, so I can’t speak to whether they replace all its functionality but there are ‘xdotool-like’ programs for Wayland. So it is at least very possible to replace functionality like the latter you mentioned (press button/button combination -> do an action, like inserting date/start a program/do something programmatic). Some examples I know are:
ydotool is a perfect replacement for dmenu based password managers.
I"ve been experimenting with both Cosmos and XFCE Wayland.
Color pickers, screenshot, and window recording/streaming all don’t seem to work or require Wayland-only packages that are extremely primitive in features and use.
Alt+tabbing out of games, whether fullscreen or windowed, also doesn’t seem to work.
Wallpapers and cursors installed to the standard location where the distro installs all of them don’t seem to be usable. I have to manually copy them to somewhere in the home directory in order to use them.
Screensavers seem to be unusable except for one port of xscreensavers.
I know OpenSUSE plans to eliminate x11, so I’m trying to get used to Wayland, but I do hope it’s more developed before I have to use it full time.
I"ve been experimenting with both Cosmos [I’m assuming you mean Cosmic, System76’s upcoming DE?] and XFCE Wayland.
So the only Wayland implementations you’ve tried are ones in Alpha or Beta?
Tbh that seems like an unfair comparison. You’re comparing alpha and beta software to production-ready software, and complaining about it not being as stable.
Wayland is a lot more mature on Gnome or Plasma. I started using Wayland on Gnome in 2019, and aside from when I briefly tested with an Nvidia card a number of years ago, the only issue I’ve ever had was screen sharing on discord, which was ‘Discord are pathologically against updating their electron version’ issue, not a Wayland issue.
tbf, aren’t both of those still in early stages? I don’t think I’ve had any issues with those on KDE wayland
Do we have a widely adopted aolution yet for screensharing, global shortcuts, and window position restoration?
Screen sharing under gnome and KDE just works. Even in sway that’s solved for quite a while now. I would call that widely adopted. I haven’t encountered the other two as problems yet. Global shortcuts work in my sway session. I would expect nothing else from gnome and KDE. Window position restoration is also a standard feature in sway AFAIK. Not sure if gnome or KDE do it.
Perhaps I should take another look now that the ecosystem has had time to mature…
Try the big ones. Gnome or KDE just works.
I use Plasma on my server, but I don’t use my server’s UI very often
Looks like I have been an early adopter of Gay™️
There is no place for Fascists within the Open Source and Free Software communities or the society at large. You will never fester your poisonous roots here. Go back to the cave you crawled out from where no sunlight can reach.
NAZI! DEVS! FUCK! OFF! 💯
Nazis AND Devs should fuck of?
No. Nazis should fuck off.
Devs should just fuck.
Go back to the cave you crawled out from where no sunlight can reach.
Bro aimed at his foot
This probably has a lot to do with the new DOA XServer fork being “anti-DEI” (pro-discrimination). When these slimy shitweasels go out and vice signal about how bigoted they are, they congregate around it and form a new harassment campagin because they have no life.
Sorry you’re getting harassed. I hope you can take solace in the fact that these little pissbabies lead miserable lives.
Wayland is gay?! I need to get off my ass and finally switch then!
Can confirm, having my different refresh rate monitors play nice with each other is extremely homosexual.
… Does this imply that Wayland has a penis?
Asking… For science, or something, I dunno what is going on.
given how wayland relies on extensions i’d imagine it’s a strap-on
X11 is on/under your ass?
Maybe they were both gay all along, that’s why we enjoy their sessions so much.
Archive link to the rescue: https://web.archive.org/web/20250624214542/https://blogs.gnome.org/alatiera/2025/06/23/the-fascist-maggots/
Once on internet, forever on internet :) Thanks.
Haha what the hell did I just read
As a commenter on that post says, this sort of talk is also common in the comments of Phoronix articles. The commenter says they’ve completely stopped supporting Phoronix since it’s clear that Michael enables this behavior by not moderating it (the least he could do is disable commenting; the type of people that are in the Phoronix comments are the absolute worst). It’s been festering for a very long time, unfortunately. Click any Phoronix article that’s older than a day and check the negativity. Worse, click an article about a controversial topic like X11/Wayland/Systemd/bcachefs/KDE/GNOME/etc. and it’s just a shitshow.
I’ve been seeing it to a lesser degree here as well. I don’t know what it is about X11 that really riles up the conspiracy theorists.
YES. Phoronix articles are good but the comment sections are insane. There are a few very vocal users that would have been banned on any reasonably moderated forum, and they largely chase out the reasonable people.
Also, occasionally there is an article about CoC or something that is obviously going to bring the loonies out of the woodwork. The comment section will get closed, but not until after the giant flamewar has gone on for a bit. Michael has to know that’s going to happen and make the decision not to close it immediately when he makes the post.
The only thing I miss about X11 is xscreensaver. I hope the dev makes a port for wayland one day. I dont care if it ever has screen locking, i just want bouncing cows.
Is this an effect of the microplastics in our brains?
It’s the effect of a persistent decades-long disinformation campaign perpetrated by those who wish to destabilize western democracies which has been signal-boosted by naive (or maliciously designed) recommendation algorithms on social media platforms.
So far they have only made me more gay
ha gaiiiii :3
avoiding microplastics is now homophobic??!
it can’t be ruled out
It also can’t be supported
It’s not like X11 will disappear immediately after that. People who need it just have to switch from Gnome to a cooler window manager 🤷
It’s really not a big deal.
From my experience, I guesstimate X11 will be around for another 20 years after that and maybe some hillbilly will even make a Gnome fork that still supports X11. Then there will be X12 one day 😆
Wait, does that mean xmonad will get to live a tiny bit longer?
Wayland is basically X12 in many ways
switch from Gnome to a cooler window manager 🤷
I think that’s easier for us to say, who actually do use something cooler. But for those whose workflow is messed up by this, I understand why they’re upset. But yeah, it’s time to move into the future, for real. High time.
You’d think they would be used to it since every update ruins their workflow too.
What? The last major change to the gnome workflow was going from vertical to horizontal workspaces, and that was several years ago.
going from vertical to horizontal workspaces
Do you mean vice versa? Or did they go back to horizontal again? 😅
They were vertical during all of Gnome 3, then changed to horizontal.
Oh wow, so they did. I have missed that 😅 I’ve been using i3 for like the last 10–15 years. Gnome being back to horizontal workspaces again like in GNOME 2 is wild to me. It’s a great change!
Mostly just trash talking how so much basic functionality is in add-ons that break frequently with updates.
You can disable version checking and have them run if you want to, although that’s probably not advisable.
