You can’t be feminist without including some of the most vulnerable women in society
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hi there, thanks for your humorous comment, but this community is for women only. Hope you understand 🧡
Sorry, I typically just browse All and respond to whatever breaks the surface, I’ll block the community so I won’t see the posts anymore.
no worries that’s very common, and thanks for being so understanding 💕
Wait this community is trans-friendly? Ah man, there were a lot of good posts I didn’t comment on because I didn’t want to start a stir.
I’m friendly to anybody but Nazis. And friends of Nazis. And people expressing ideas with passing resemblance to Nazis. And …
Well, you can see the pattern!
Absolutely! “Gender critical” is against the rules here, and we are 100% trans+ and non binary inclusive. Being a women only community includes all women
cool :)
I don’t like entering women’s spaces without permission from a woman. Perhaps I should myself be the woman that gives me permission, but I find that asking to be let into a women’s space prevents some of the nastiness with TERFs getting defensive, as opposed to asserting my place and being pushed back against. Looks like I’m swimming in TERF-free waters.
We’re open even to non-women who feel they belong here or wish to participate, e.g. agender, non-binary, bigender, and even trans men (if they choose).
Huh. I didn’t know trans-men were also on the list. (Not objecting, just news to me.)
Trans men are men and I believe the trans-affirming position is to exclude them, but if you’ve read Leslie Feinberg’s Stone Butch Blues you already know it can be quite complicated - so we let trans men decide whether they belong in a womens-only community.
Some trans men have a butch lesbian identity before they transition that they continue to have a connection to, and it can be hard for some trans men to lose their connection to a community of women. Some trans men are not passing and continue to move through the world perceived as a woman despite having a gender identity that makes them a man.
Either way, I have understood the trans rule as allowing any trans individuals decide whether they feel they belong here or not. My understanding might be wrong, or we might need to revise the rule or my understanding of it.
Oh, I’m all for including them. I was just surprised, no worries!
And yes, if you’re a trans man who doesn’t (yet?) pass, it would be cruel to be forced out of connections without commensurate connections being formed on the other side of the transition.
I mean, I don’t know - I still debate this with myself tbh, it makes me feel a bit ill to include trans men in womens spaces because it’s just so transphobic on the face of it, it reminds me of womens spaces like the Michigan Womyn’s Music Festival which famously excluded trans women from attending or performing, but allowed fully transitioned trans men not only to attend but to perform …
There is some implicit notion that when a woman becomes more masculine it is good, and trans men somehow embody the ultimate apotheosis of a woman (i.e. a woman who achieves manhood), it all just reeks of misogyny and transphobia to me. This thinking seems to hate femininity and it negates the male gender identity of trans men.
But being trans is so difficult even for the trans individual to come to terms with or understand that it’s not uncommon for trans folks to have complicated relationships to gender. A lot of us fall are not strictly binary, and we fall somewhere between men or women.
Some of us are binary enough but have been so pressured by society to fit in one box even after we realize we don’t fix that box we don’t feel we can move to the other box.
So I guess the “even trans men” is a way to just leave wiggle room for people to decide for themselves, and to prioritize self-identity, even though that is admittedly messy. And yes, it is to avoid someone feeling wronged by being excluded from a space where they feel they belong.
Wanting to be included in spaces that align with one’s gender identity doesn’t have anything to do with passing though.
And while I can’t speak for all of us, being accepted in opposite-gender spaces because we don’t pass is no consolation prize. To the contrary, telling a trans woman, “You should find men’s spaces to be accepted in until you pass,” or vice versa, is what’s actually cruel.
Thank you for putting so much work into this inclusive and wonderful community! 💗
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Love the support! I’m gonna have to delete your comment because it could be seen as advocating violence. Feel free to post a different meme though
