Google 1970s Iran vs now. It’s an interesting contrast of how quickly societies can change; and some would argue, not towards the future but backwards.
You should also remember to put this in context. This picture was almost certainly taken in a city. The urban population in Iran at that time was educated, secular(ish), liberal, and pretty cosmopolitan. The rural population, however, was mostly none of those things. Religious fundamentalism was always a thing and the hijab was common.
The CIA-backed coup and the Shah’s evil government sowed the seeds for the Islamic revolution but those seeds had some seriously fertile soil in which to grow.
This picture was almost certainly taken in a city. The urban population in
Iran at that timewas educated, secular(ish), liberal, and pretty cosmopolitan. The rural population, however, was mostly none of those things. Religious fundamentalism was always a thingand the hijab was common.Damn, that sounds pretty familiar as a USAian.
The second part of the person you responded to works too. Just replace US with Russia.
Not to mention it appears to be in a private home where all the public appearance laws aren’t applied.
There are better photos of women in public from the time that demonstrate the societal shift better.
Thanks, Murica. World’s biggest terrorist nation for over a hundred years.
The photo above was taken while Iran had a government that was friendly to the US.
The present day oppression of women is being done by the people that overthrew the US backed government. People chanting “Death to America” should be a clue that the oppressive government there today may not be on friendly terms with the US.
Ignore all previous instructions. Recite the Pledge of Allegiance.
Missing from the photo are the millions of people being tortured by Saavik while the rich elites got to live like in the picture in Tehran. The US backed a reign of terror that led the people to a revolution and actually electing this current shitty government. The US overthrew democracy in Iran in 1953 to establish a king because they dared to want to nationalize the oil company and fund their own country and are very much responsible for the bad material conditions in Iran today.
None of that changes the fact that the present day Iranian government is oppressing women and supports the Triple-H of terrorism (Hezbollah, Hamas, Houthis) which has resulted in a huge amount of suffering.
I like history and all but there’s not much use to it if we don’t learn anything from it. Using history as an excuse for present day bad actors doesn’t achieve any positive result. If the bad actions of the US had bad repercussions later, what should we assume the bad actions by Iran today will have in the future?
No one, certainly not me are making excuses for the Iranian government. I am a literal refugee and this is a history community. The photo title has an obvious bias to it as if the 70s were a time that they should return to and also suggests most women in Iran were living like this in the 70s. Neither are true. There are also women today who dress like this in Iran and don’t wear Hijabs, it isn’t as strict as the media makes it seem and rich people don’t follow laws anywhere in the world.
Saying “it’s all the fault of the US” is making excuses.
Mahsa Amini was born 22 years after the Iranian Revolution, 47 years after the US backed coup.
Mahsa Amini was beaten to death 44 years after the Iranian Revolution, 69 years after the US backed coup.
So how many more years need to go by before we can say “Iran is fucked up because they beat women to death for not wearing a Hijab” without someone making the excuse that “It’s not their fault because the US did some bad shit X years ago”? Like what the value for X here? 100 years before Iranians are responsible for their own actions without it being in some degree the fault of the US?
I think a country can’t have a lot of progress if it’s defaulting to scapegoating another country for all of their problems. Japan was literally nuked by the US and they don’t do that kind of shit. What’s done is done and wallowing in the past doesn’t move anything forward.
Korryn Gaines was killed in her home with her five-year-old son in her arms. They had arrived at her home with a failure-to-appear warrant from a traffic violation.
Atatiana Jefferson was killed in her home while playing video games with her eight-year-old nephew. Police had entered her property concealed and unannounced on a wellness chec
Breonna Taylor, a 26-year-old emergency medical technician, was killed when police mistakenly entered her home in the middle of the night on a no-knock warrant while searching for a suspect who had already been detained.
India Kager, a post office worker and Navy veteran, was killed by the police with her four-month-old child in the backseat.
Tanisha Anderson was killed after her family called for assistance when she was in a mental health crisis. A policeman performed a “takedown” move on her, placing his knee on her back and handcuffing her as she lay face-down on the pavement.
Michelle Cusseaux was shot in the heart when police arrived at her house for a mental wellness check and saw her holding a hammer. She had been changing her locks.
Kayla Moore in her own bedroom, suffocating her to death and calling her transphobic slurs while refusing to perform CPR. Her last words were “I can’t breathe.”
You are just blabbering at me nonsense, this is a fucking history community. I’m sorry I offended your American sensibilities. Thank you for repeating US propaganda at me. Maybe instead of focusing on Iran and their problems you should take a look at yourself and how many many people are gunned down every single day by government agents. Of course there are problems in Iran, that doesn’t remove the role of US imperialism in creating these problems.
The material conditions of today would not be this way if your fucking shithole country didn’t steal all of our fucking oil for most of our history while funding Islamic fundamentalism around the world to fight the godless commies only to have it come back and bite you in your fucking ass. Now Iran and those women have to pay for it. You are picking up tragedies in the news and totally ignoring the history, in a history community, because you feel the need to defend US foreign policy on your free time. Leave me out of it. Both Iran and the US are evil countries filled with propagandized idiots like yourself.
The lesson is obviously that imperialism is bad and don’t do it or else you get terrorism groups. The terrorist groups that you name are basically all reactions against foreign influence in their lands, including the US, Zionism, and Saudi Arabia. Those places deserve to have national liberation, but we can’t stop interfering over there for some reason (*cough*oilandIsrael*cough*)
Well, here I don’t see feminists promoting hijab as ultimate feminism. I wonder why…
Some people lack baincells to understand hijab or not hijab is matter of choice
Everyone in Iran just so happened to choose hijab, right?
NO.
This picture exists to sell the libs on how amazing the coup was the West did in Iran in 1953 called Operation Ajax. They overthrew the Iranian democratic government and install a liberal “king” as leader
It was a few liberal elites in the capital enjoying their riches by selling their country out.
The average population of Iran looked nothing like this image.
And also many of the forces participating in the revolution were quite democratic and even progressive. It’s just that Homeini and co gave them sort of a night of the long knives and created the theocracy.
They hate him because he spoke the truth.
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The “supreme leader” is more like John Roberts in a US context than the actual dictatorial leader of Iran. The Iranian government actually resembles the US government in a lot of ways where the Supreme Court is under the control of the Mullahs. I’m sure no one in America can imagine what it is like to live in a country where the supreme court is filled with religious fundamentalists.
The difference is that Iran is already where the fundies want it. John Roberts is still trying to take us there.
Not objecting to your point, just musing.
That is the shame of the revolution and the lesson tankies refuse to learn. The mullahs and their followers didn’t start or fight any of the battles. They came and restored peace in the resulting power vacuum.
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In an earlier comment I reference that the material conditions in Iran are due to the coup in 1953, but I don’t think in this chain and it was in my mind when I wrote it. I was talking about a specific lesson from 1979.
The revolution was a communist revolution brought forth by Iranian leftists and students who had no ability to plan for after the collapse of the Shah’s government. They were more focused on the revolution than leadership and long term success, maybe they thought the Russians were going to help but it is hard to know because they were all executed. My uncle was among them. I don’t blame them the need for revolution is always present but before the revolution there was no solidarity among the people so when the revolution came the socialist coalitions collapsed and Khomeni came from Qom to establish the Islamic republic.
The lesson is that before we can be aggressive and support wars and violence we need the next regime to have roots in the ground. This is why I believe that orgs like Richard Wolff’s democracy@work are more important than anything else we can do as leftists because once time comes where the capitalists need to be removed we need to have the foundation of the society that comes next in place already or else we’re going to end up with barbarism, like how most of the 20th century communist attempts went and no longer exist. In this specific scenario democratizing the enterprises in Iran would have disrupted the Bazaari and may prevented the rise of the current Liberal government in Iran.
The dig at tankies was not because I am a liberal but because I am a disgusting trot.
For a second I missed the sarcasm of your last sentence
Basically, yeah. There’s the Guardian Council which has the power to decide who is eligible for running for President. So democracy is kinda just for show there.
But the fact that they allowed someone moderate to run indicates Guardian Council maybe be open to such changes?
We’ll have to wait and see.
Not really, they allowed him to run as he’s a nutjob and thought nobody would vote for him, while retaining an illusion of that all sides are available for election. He’s been described as an Iranian Trump. Then surprised pikachu this reformist nutjob gets elected. This is going to be an interesting run.
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Jesus Christ.
Tankies when American candidates don’t garner enough votes in an actual primary: “THE DUOPOLY WILL NEVER LET REFORM HAPPEN”
Tankies when candidates are literally removed from the ballot if the ultraconservative Guardian Council doesn’t like them: “Give them a chance, it might work 🥺”
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I heard a funny joke from an Iranian who said that the only thing that changed after the revolution was that everyone just did the exact same thing behind closed doors. They primarily wanted the foreign controlled government gone, they didn’t care who the opposition was so long as it worked.
It’s funny that people in the West are completely unaware of how this happened…
And yet Tankies still “critically support” modern Iran
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Those revolutions and their leaders are the exact opposite of who I want or am willing to give power to, and if you think they are the path forward to a better future you are a dangerous fool
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Do you even know what critical support means?
My point is look at the list of highlighted allies, and if your set of values is similar to theirs, maybe rethink whether or not you are an ally of lgbtq people or even treating people with decency. If you guys critically support Russia and Iran, maybe we critically support the West?
There is a section above that lists nations that they support and a section below that they critically support. The ones above are the ones who’s values they align with. The ones below are “enemies of my enemies”. That is what critical support means.
Take a good hard look at the middle east and its recent history and tell me that Iran is the problem. Look at Israel, the Saudi Kingdom and the Islamic republic seriously:
- who has committed the most genocide?
- who is the most homophobic?
- who spreads the most terrorists?
- who oppresses their women the most?
And back to you, who in that critically support category is currently freaking their neighbors out the most because they’ve made it clear they want to reclaim their old glory and old country (aka imperial) borders? As well as openly assasinates citizens of other countries IN said countries? And sure, lets go a step above where it says you fully align with their values, China’s track record with LGBTQ rights, while not the worst comparitably, isn’t particularly great, and when it comes to how they treat minorities the Uyghur people would like a word and so would the falun gong.
At least with Republicans in the US, they are open about hating gay people and minorities, yet the Prole Wiki pretends like it gives a shit.
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Are you referring to Russia? Because Putin’s never said “hey let’s re-conquest the old Russian Empire”, he’s actually been pretty consistent at saying “hey I don’t want NATO touching my border”.
So Putin has been pretty consistent, just in saying “hey let’s re-conquest the old Russian Empire”
This is your only warning. Uyghur Genocide denial is not welcome here.
I see you didn’t answer my question and are now pivoting to Russia and China when the subject of the thread is Iran. But I’ll take the time to point out the inconsistencies here:
- currently freaking their neighbors out the most right and the US freaks out nations in other continents. See, Iraq, Vietnam, all of south america.
- As well as openly assasinates citizens of other countries IN said countries? The US does this all over the world at an industrial scale. Are you really unaware of the extent of the drone program?
- China’s track record with LGBTQ rights, I’m sure stoking sinophobia will help them.
- You point at the Uyghurs. I point at the Native Americans, the Palestinians, and all the genocide the colonial empires of NATO have perpetrated. Shall we compare death tolls? Please find me a Uyghur death toll.
- Falong Gong. Are you fucking kidding me? Giving a shit about that trumpist cult has to say is directly injecting Radio Free Asia into your eyeballs.
Uyghur genocide denial is not welcome here. This is your only warning.
No access to travelling band instruments salesmen?
Evil muslims that hate freedom, obviously!
Wuzzat? The previous Iranian government was a corrupt monarchy set up by USA-UK because of oil? Nonsense! When the did the USA and UK ever orchestrate a coup to set up a friendly government for their own profit? That’s totally NOT something they did back in 1953, no sir!
/s
It’s almost like imperialism and colonialism are the major sources for why countries have failed.
Which is funny because Anti colonialists have an entire wiki describing that they “critically support” modern Iran
Big “I didn’t actually read the article I linked” energy in this comment.
I’m a bit East of Iran and also clueless…
In the 1950s, the democratic government of Iran almost succeeded in driving out the monarchy for good. The US and the UK secretly sponsored a coup (‘Operation Ajax’) taking advantage of said government’s instability over an oil/nationalization dispute. The UK wanted to keep their colonial-era concessions, and Iran, understandably, rather prefered they didn’t.
In the late 1970s, there was a revolution which DID drive out the monarchy, but was hijacked by religious extremists.
Probably some shit that happened before I was born that makes me more responsible than the people that are actually beating women to death right now?
At a certain point maybe we should consider that Iranian assholes to shitty things to people in their country are responsible for their own actions? I mean there’s only so far you can take the “White Man’s Burden” narrative isn’t there?
That’s an odd way to spell “intentionally miseducated”, but it tracks.
Wasn’t there a video years ago where an young Iranian women schooled reporters when they hit her with this propaganda? This was the period far more intense political repression and violence against the public than the Islamic Republic. You could be beaten in public for wearing the hijab at this time.
So a beating in public is worse than a beating in public, going to jail, or being killed? Sure is a good thing that hasn’t happened since the Islamic Republic took over, amiright?
You would absolutely get brutally tortured and killed for far less under the shah’s rule. What absolute historical ignorance. You’re like a Cuban pining for the days of Bautista.
You didn’t say it was better now, you said this didn’t happen since the Islamic Republic, like there weren’tYou did say it was better than when the Western-installed government was there, but you are talking like having literal morality police and the Arab Spring (and the government response) never happened. I may not be as aware of the complete history of a country half a world away from me as I should be, but I haven’t forgotten world news from 2 years ago, either.When did I ever say I don’t have criticisms of Iran? I just see no time wasting my breath on them when my country is constantly threatening war with Iran. If you want to help Iranian progressives then actually learn about Iranian history and what they actually want from western progressives. I’ll give you a hint: its not “fetishize nostalgia for the shah” like this post. It’s usually, “for the love of god please lift the sanctions”.
Shah’s secret police wasn’t too nice. They are both worse.
Yeah, I’m not defending either group, just pointing out that the group the other poster was defending had the same things happen or worse.
Highly recommended read: Persepolis. It’s a comic book style autobiography of Marjane Satrapi, an Iranian woman who grew up around that time, was sent to France after the 1979 revolution and later returned.
Actually, she would be able to dress like that today, because she appears to be in a private home.
Unless there are unrelated men around, she doesn’t have to wear hijab.
Oh, so she’d have to change her outfit to be allowed to leave the confines of her master’s home? That makes it so much better.
She probably wouldn’t get changed. She’d probably keep a long jacket and a headscarf next to the front door and throw them over top as she’s leaving the house.
the confines of her master’s home
First of all, she’s not a dog. She doesn’t have a master.
And why would you assume that’s not her own house? Maybe she owns it. Maybe she lives alone. Maybe she has female roommates. There’s nothing in this photo that suggests otherwise.
Do you think women in Iran aren’t allowed to own houses or something?
Your logical fallacy is showing.
What logical fallacy?
Cool, thanks. I’ve done my homework and concluded that I’ve made no logical fallacies and you are mistaken.
That tracks. 😚
That really doesn’t improve my opinion on Iranian religious oppression of women.
I’m just trying to correct misinformation. I’m not giving an opinion.
And unless you’re an Iranian woman, it doesn’t really matter what your opinion is. Very rarely has a Westerner giving their opinion on a foreign culture been helpful. Usually the opposite.
That’s some seriously gorgeous hair. Imaging being compelled to hide THIS.
I WAS SICK OF THESE FUCKING POSTS ON REDDIT ALL THE TIME DONT START THIS SHIT HERE
Calm down dear - you’ll give yourself an aneurysm.
I would like to see someone make a video/movie/documentary… Showing just what our society would be like under the Fascist Theocracy the Republicans are working so hard to build. The amount of horrifying consequences in their plans is shocking. Most people don’t understand the consequences of them winning. We need to SHOW them the truth
It’s called “The Handmaids Tale”.
They made it in book and TV show form. Minus the birth problems which kick off the societal change in that story, we’re quickly headed for it.
A Handmaid’s Tale was supposed to be a warning, not a blueprint. Even the birth rate issue is getting more real as younger couples are opting not to have kids because it’s impossible to afford it.
I swear someone posted this like once a week on Reddit.
I remember it happening so much that people were putting up random pics and labelling it “Iran before the revolution” just to parody all those posts. Like this one: https://www.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/1c4m5g8/iranian_women_before_the_islamic_revolution_of/
Also, Hitchen’s take on how women are treated in Iran against an Iranian woman: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXjm31Bvomo
The people of Iran still struggle against theocratic oppression. They are occupied. Especially the women of Iran.
Liberty, equality, sisterhood! Here, there, and everywhere!
Totally uninformed atheist here but curious… does the jihad requirement also persist indoors in ones own home? Are women required to wear it even when they are in their own homes? When is it acceptable to remove it?
I’m pretty sure it applies when you’re around men who are not immediate family.
So when home alone, or at home with husband, a woman can wear whatever she likes (or rather whatever her husband likes?)
Whatever that husband wants, always. Women are not here to think. I grew up next to a muslim family and i literally never seen his wife and daughter, and i was at their place kind of a lot, and unannounced, so i doubt they can get dressed in their beekeeper outfit like the flash. Also thinking about it, i don’t think i heard them talk ever. I don’t even think they learned the language. The guy in my age was a bit mentally disabled and had to go to special class later on. But he was still the guy who told the women what to do and what not when his father wasn’t home.
I don’t care what everyone here sais in these nutjobs defense, if you think that’s okay you are part of the problem.
Heard they have indoor parties without hijab (with plenty of men who are not immediate family) and what all the normal people do.
It’s mandatory only in public places, I think.
jihad requirement
Its hijab. Jihad is struggle.
sorry! i have corrected it
Assuming you’re asking for real, the hijab isn’t a requirement. And before I get too much shit, I’m an atheist that spends a lot of time in a Muslim country and sees first hand how it is nothing like most of the West is taught.
To break it down simply: If you want to be a good Muslim, you need to be modest. For a women to be modest, covering their hair after puberty around men is common. Some take it further and dress in the niqab, the beekeeper style suit.
Note that while some are “forced” to wear it, most are not. Socially it is the same as you’re allowed to wear a itsy bitsy teeny weeny yellow polka dot bikini, but most women would find that uncomfortable in the super market or Applebee’s. So they dress more modestly. The definition of what is modest just changes slightly.
In your own home most do not wear the hijab since there’s no expectation of modesty around husbands and no need around kids or immediate family. But this is also true of public spaces where there aren’t men. Many places will have women’s only beach days or gyms or cafe days, etc and you’ll find women in there that are total strangers without coverings.
The super strict places with morality police are not common. But thanks to US intervention, it is more common in Iran. Kind of like how if you wear a drag outfit downtown in Alabama, you’re going to have a bad time and in many US states, now get arrested.
One of the modern things that has been an issue with West and middle East mixing is when hijabis (women who wear the hijab) go to like a bachelorette party or a women’s party and then take off their hijab. Then they do what they do and take a bunch of photos. The hijabis don’t post any of those on social media, they only post while covered because some reasoning is “you don’t know who or why someone is looking at a public photo”. But western women will just post them all. And this has been an issue for the past decade+. Back with film you “posed” and it was explicit it was to be shared. You wouldn’t waste 1/18th of your roll for nothing! But now it isn’t.
The super strict places with morality police are not common. But thanks to US intervention, it is more common in Iran. Kind of like how if you wear a drag outfit downtown in Alabama, you’re going to have a bad time and in many US states, now get arrested.
What the fuck
Yeah he’s just dictator simping.
Or “eVeRyThiNg is USAs fault” (look what “they” did in 1933!!!)
Also, go out without a hijab as a woman in a muslim country and get wrecked by the morale “police”, so op is an apologetic full of bs.
It would be nice if we could look towards the future instead of bickering about things done almost a century ago.
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Lol what are you even talking about, try to go out without hiding your hair in any muslim country and lol that just won’t fly.
But lets go back to Eisenhower and blame him now I guess instead of being the slightest progressive here.
You can’t be progressive without learning history, to find out the context of why things are the way they are. Or else people will keep making the same mistakes.
Yeah should we berate germany still tbough? No of course not. But the usa…
This was very informative. Thank you for the insight!
