Update: I got banned from hexbear and grad lmao
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You just comment something like “humans good” and the pro-russia tankies start arguing with the anti-russia tankies under your comment…
It’s hilarious honestly
Never post you bear ass in IncantationUrsine, always make sure you are in MagicBear community where friendly sugar bears updoot and compliment you.
One time, I brought right-wing idealogies to a left-wing instance.
I leanrelned my lesson. Always check the instance or community you’re posting in.
I’ve never been able to figure out the basic ideas behind their opinions. It’s something like US conservatives, where it’s something stupider than you can even guess at, but less predictable.
Understand that some or most of the key posters there are literally pawns of Russian or Chinese intelligence. Troll farms, wumao, what have you. Whether they are literally government employees or contracted through a third party, their purpose is to astroturf positive optics of their employer and negative optics of the US/the West as a whole. A more sinister interpretation, they are trying to destabilize the West by doing things like trashing Biden, now Harris, hoping to secure a chaotic and inwardly destructive Trump presidency.
Anything they say is to service these goals, anything they believe is mutable to these goals, and nothing they argue is in good faith.
I don’t buy that at all. Lemmy is far too small for foreign agents to be posting propaganda. Why would they try to convince people who don’t need convincing?
Tankies already suckle foreign propaganda, ain’t no need to directly influence them.
It does not take much effort to throw some 3rd party troll farm a few dimes a post.
but why tho. no one on lemmy needs convincing
But doesnt china block hexbear?
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For others but their info opsec is uninhibited. The crux of authoritarians is “rules for the but not for me”.
Sure, they don’t want themselves to be destabilized by this nonsense.
I’ve seen some downright insane takes on how what the Chinese are doing to the Uighurs is not as bad as it seems.
yeah by the lemmy devs
It sure is odd how hexbear loves the absolute fuck out of Russia and China.
it’s very simple.
us bad.
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Yu’re pretty much outlining the problem. Yes, the people on hexbear and ‘omg I’m so leftist’ on the rest of lemmy strongly support Russia and China, who are not “America’s designated enemy countries” simply because Americans unilaterally claimed it or something, but are geopolitical and military rivals who straight up say they oppose the US. There’s nothing politically special about either country that makes them worthy of leftist support other than hatred of America, yes. It’s a pretty pathetic concept to base your political views on since it’s not even remotely consistent. These bold intellectual luminaries should move to Russia if they think it’s so great (that is, assuming they don’t already live there). Most likely they live cushy lives in Western Europe while whining about how great the CCCP is.
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China is not communist at all for the past 20 years. They do slightly socialist capitalism with a one party system. That’s what makes HB’s love of the CCCP so clueless. Admire China if you want, sure, but they’re not communists. Same people act as if modern Russia is communist because the USSR theoretically was.
The Chinese and Russians would be perfect rly happy to do the same thing the US has been doing. China is working on it, in fact. Russians seem too mired in their own difficulties but anyone who thinks they don’t want an empire apparently doesn’t know much about the USSR.
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If they were actually communist they wouldn’t produce billionaires by the hundreds.
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Didn’t you already post this dumb shit in a different place? This stupid essay wastes a ton of time citing philosophers instead of data and then ends with “it is okay to have billionaires because of reasons, still socialism.” It isn’t socialism.
Russia, Iran and China all operate global empires, it’s not just the US. China is also not communist.
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I’ve been there, but I mostly just do it anyway. Fuck it, I said what I said. Half the time you don’t even get anything all that cutting, it’s just png salad. Every now and then, you’ll get a coherent response that isn’t a death threat, and those end up being good reads more often than not.
Yeah I don’t think much of it either… They just take offense to something doesn’t even apply to them lol
Eh, more often than not their longer posts are just “actually Stalin/Putin/Mao/Kim dynasty/Trump good because <5 page essay>”
And of course, if you don’t address every single point in that 5 page essay, along with doing all of their required reading, then you’re clearly acting in bad faith and a shitlib and are now going to be dogpiled by 27 other Hexbear users.
“If you do not take tankie.blogspot as a serious source then you are WRONG AND I WIN. I WIN! I WIN! I WIN!”
Bro I had this commie from lemmy.ml post a meme advertising for how great communism was. And I told him how the state was authoritarian and basically didn’t care much about human rights and the millions of people starving to death. I got wall of texted and he got upset when I used wikipedia as a source. I’m sure if I used some news outlet he’d just say that’s western propaganda so I ended up blocking the guy and later the instance.
You made the right choice. It doesn’t matter how you respond, they’ll shift the goalposts and attack you every time.
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Apologia is not allowed. Continue, and you’ll be banned.
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We should just defederate all the ml domains, it would greatly improve the Lemmy experience.
Defederate them for having a different political worldview? Defederation is supposed to be for extreme circumstances. There’s not a problem that .ml communities cause of people breaking the rules here. I’m not saying there aren’t toxic people from lemmy.ml or lemmygrad.ml, there definitely are, but there’s nothing to justify defederation.
If instances just start defederating other instances for hosting a lot of communists then the platform’s gonna fall apart lol.
You can block instances if you don’t like them. You don’t have to decide what the best experience for all us other lemm.ee users is.
Now make this argument in their spaces - see how that goes for you.
It’s not about an ideology. It’s that they make it their identity. If someone founded a server and community for lemmy.fascists I wouldn’t blame a lot of people for not wanting to Federate with it as well.
While they like to talk to talk. They’ll do anything but walk the walk. Ml governments have been some of the most brutal and repressive in existence. And this is not a defense of anyone else. just a critique of them. There’s plenty of criticism to go around. However Leninist are particularly hypocritical, bad faith, and specifically not worth engaging with when it bleeds over into every other discussion.
I completely get the stance you have. I just can’t agree with the view that the instances are as bad as fascist instances. I mean some of the communities there definitely express heinous views don’t get me wrong, but they’re a leftist instance with many different types of leftism. There’s the extremist “tankie” communities (one might call them) with all the Russian and North Korean apologia (yes, internet MLs think North Korea is free and democratic), then there’s most of the rest of the instance with well-adjusted but very leftist views. This goes for .ml and hexbear but, I haven’t seen much of anything other than authoritarian communism on lemmygrad so I can’t say anything positive about that.
I think most instances have their extremely problematic areas that those admins don’t see as problems, and we have to weigh whether those problems are serious enough to cause major problems for lemm.ee. Seemingly in our admins’ opinions, and my opinion, hexbear and .ml are easily dealt with by just blocking them. I have seen a ton of cryptofascists and actual pedophiles from some other specific large instances (cough .world), and while I certainly put some blame on the instance admins for catering towards people with those views somewhat, I don’t want to defederate from them. There’s tons of good reason to federate with .world, and tons of good reason to federate with .ml, and with hexbear. They all contribute a lot of non-political stuff to my feed. Hexbear has probably the best trans communities along with blahaj.zone, probably like 1/3 of the posts in my feed are from .ml plus .world.
IMO, since there are a lot of instances that defederate those instances already, the classic use of the Fediverse is to have your account on one of those instances. Or to block the instance if you don’t want to go that far. I go on lemm.ee specifically so I can see all the fediverse has to offer without having to change between a bunch of different accounts because of defederation. I don’t want the LGBT and leftist communities I participate in to be blocked because a bunch of guys in the instance have really bad opinions. Unless they’re spreading abuse content or something, I’d probably rather be able to see the instance.
Sorry for the wall of text, but defederation is an important topic that affects everyone on the site, I think it should have a lot of elaboration.
The administration and leadership alone is bad. Fascists have less/non controversial views too. Is that an actual argument for them?
They aren’t leftist in any meaningful sense. They’re authoritarian first. Anything else is an afterthought. An anarchist or anarco-communist like myself calling out the ML state and the vanguard party for their failures. Would be deemed an enemy of the state. Imprisoned, killed, or if I was lucky. Just have my life ruined.
There’s plenty of Anarchist and non-ML communities on .ml and hexbear. The hardcore Maoist stuff doesn’t apply to most of the communities on .ml. Either way though, the communities they do have isn’t as relevant to federation for lemm.ee since the admins stated they only consider defederation for activities on lemm.ee. Which again, I would say lemmy.world and other instances have had just as much of a problem. That’s relevant because in that case, if we’re defederating .ml/hexbear, logically we should defederate .world.
Every day on this site I see people who are into transphobia (“I don’t believe in trans people” I shit you not is something I’ve seen), Palestinians ethnic cleansing, want to get rid of healthcare, all that Project 2025 stuff. And they’re mostly from lemmy.world and sometimes instances like sh.itjust.works. Their propoganda seems to prove far more consequential on the site, as most people will think you’re a lunatic if you say China is a free and democratic nation, but a lot of people will buy what is now mainstream far-right propoganda and culture war nonsense. Although both of those will tell Americans to not vote for Kamala.
When reddit was the main alternative and Lemmy.ml was the main server? Sure. Even if both groups are administered by authoritarians. At least nominally leninists have a couple more things that they like to pretend they have in common.
That doesn’t mean the group’s over there were healthy or well established. You have to tiptoe around the egos of those in the in group. And criticizing the flaws of their ideology would get you banned from communities and or the server quickly.
The reason people want to de-Federate with ML and related servers is literally their administration. Not just people on the server. Are there problems with people on world? Absolutely. But I doubt you see rud or any of the admins as part of it and enabling it. Literally in your own words. They’ve kind of been too open and you don’t like some of the people that they have allowed to be on their server. You’re OKAY with cultish authoritarians who pretend to be trans friendly. Till they find some reason to call the person a secret capitalist liberal etc etc etc and ban them. I’d rather be part of a community that would risk letting in a few transphobes etc. Rather than one that cannot take self-reflection or self-criticism without lashing out against those who level it.
‘Anarchists’ who are plenty okay with authoritarianism.
Bro defending Redfash…
So let me get this straight:
You think it’s okay that Israelis colonized Palestine. You think it’s okay that they’ve displaced and murdered millions throughout their entire existence, taken hundreds of Arab towns and cities and renamed them with Hebrew names. You decry anyone pointing out that Israel does this stuff as ‘hate’. On top of that, you’ve argued that slurs are okay, and that it’s “woke” to say slurs are bad. You’re literally a modern Nazi cosplaying as a leftist.
But somehow, you have the resolve to crawl around my comments, trying to get your ego back apparently, and you do the mental gymnastics to conclude that “defederation is reserved for extreme cases” is equivalent to ‘defending redfash’. That’s creepy. What is wrong with you, you freak? Why do you want to defend indiscriminately blowing up civilians, women, children so badly? Because they’re the wrong ethnicity? Do you really think anyone’s going to believe you calling anti-genocide protestors “Nazis” while you support the people who contribute to Israel’s war crimes and prop up this ethnostate?
How do you suppose you get to label other people fascists, you fascist? Why don’t you have any introspection?
Let me get this straight. You are a nazi and are unable to read and understand texts pretty dam fucked up for a German “linguist”
Oh and you are constantly arguing against strawmans but thats probably because you are falling exactly under the definition of woke i gave you and now you are mad about it. Woke Nazi.
Keep it to the other comment chain you two.
Jesus you are weird
Oh wow thats so fucking wrong, lemmy.ml is run by the same admins as lemmygrad, that goes for most mods as well, they are basically red faschism, thats not a different opinion, thats straight up illigal shit in many places and defederation is a great option to filter out illigal stuff. Both .ml instances have regular posts that violate EU laws, especially regarding genocide denial and screaming genocide about things that very obviously are not.
Look, I don’t know the federation rules of ani.social. But our instance, lemm.ee, has defederated literally only 3 instances. IIRC 2 of them are borderline CSAM instances, and the other one is threads.net. The instance intentionally has lenient rules on this stuff – defederation doesn’t happen unless there’s a massive issue of rule-breaking in lemm.ee caused by the other instance (e.g. spam/brigading) which can’t be resolved with diplomacy between admins. Hence defederation being considered the last resort.
Also I’m not so sure about the claim that denying the Uyghur genocide and saying they think certain other things are genocide (don’t know what you’re referring to here though) is illegal in the EU.
We defederated nothing but the .ml bouble including Hexbear defederated us because we apparently have something to do with child porn, NSFW is literally not allowed here…
And genocide denial is illegal in Germany, many other EU countries followed that, but the majority of instances host with Hezner, wich has servers in Germany, so its legally problematic for EU hosted instances. https://www.dw.com/en/germany-criminalizes-denying-war-crimes-genocide/a-63834791
Lemmy.ml also Spams the modlog and have been reported to engage in problematic federation actions. Hexbear is also Brigading a lot and lemmygrad is literally denying the holocaust from time to time.
And genocide denial is illegal in Germany, many other EU countries followed that, but the majority of instances host with Hezner, wich has servers in Germany, so its legally problematic for EU hosted instances. https://www.dw.com/en/germany-criminalizes-denying-war-crimes-genocide/a-63834791
Huh. Well considering the actions of the German government this past year, I doubt they’ll be doing much about genocide denial this time around.
This alleged holocaust denial though… you’ve piqued my interest. Lemmygrad, being an extremely communist instance, is almost always vocal about how the Nazis did a lot of genocide. It’d be weird for that to be there without immediately being removed by mods. Do you have any examples or quotes, perchance? I haven’t had a particularly good experience with lemmygrad users on average, but this would definitely take the cake.
As for Hexbear brigading, that actually was apparently an issue for lemm.ee a long time ago. But the admins talked with the hexbear admins and were able to get it resolved. At least, on lemm.ee communities, hexbear users seem to be following the rules – usually it’s lemmy.world users breaking the rules sitewide (usually for transphobia, very recently some prominent users there were promoting pedophilia). But I think lemm.ee doesn’t ban users much regardless unless they’re extraordinarily uncivil and cartoonishly evil. There’s not even a modlog that I can find (pretty weird not to have a mod log).
Lemmygrad doesn’t deny the nazis did the holocaust, no. But they do deny that Jews were systematically killed in WW2 by the Soviet Union. They do deny that the Soviet Union assisted Nazi Germany in gathering Jews.
There is evidence of this across this community, which you may search for at your leisure.
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Oh wow no thanks blocked.
…? I’m confused. Is ani.social a Nazi/anti-Palestine instance? I’ve had a total of 2 interactions with people from there mentioning Germany denying Israeli war crimes, and both of those people happened to be pro-ethnostate and immediately went the genocide denial route. I guess weebs on Lemmy are just as conservative as weebs on Reddit or something
Edit: Oh, it’s mostly porn/erotic content and talking about erotic content in anime… so it’s literally just the Reddit anime communities, but on the fediverse. Welp, that’s enough Lemmy for today
I restored your comments. No idea why they were removed as they aren’t in the modlog. Did your instance admins remove them for some reason?
My experience on lemmy is vastly improved after blocking lemmygrad, lemmy.ml, hexbear, beehaw, and pawb. Wiped out vast swathes of degenerates from my feed.
Sure, occasionally poking them with a stick can be funny, but if you don’t like your scrolling punctuated with muttering “oh fuck off” under your breath every few minutes – it’s nice.
You blocked lemmy.ml?
Beehaw and pawb are peculiar blocks but .ml can be a bit trying. Many users have been swept into, what they believe to be, militant communist zeitgeist. Their opinions exist within an echo-chamber surreptitiously safeguarded by their extremely banhappy admins. Mind that it would be acceptable if they were to openly offer their rule list, including “do not criticize communism, communists, communist countries, China, Russia, or the war in Ukraine” but they refuse to do so given how unpopular and weird that would be if it were visible to their users. If you care to verify, post a picture of tank man or suggest that Russia should leave Ukraine in one of their communities and enjoy your two week vacation from .ml.
Users range from confused and corralled to militant and chronically angry and many don’t understand why. Frankly, most .ml users are fine but their communities are breeding grounds for frustration, delusions, and misinformation. The prime example of admin sanctioned crazy goes by the name of yogthos if you, once again, wish to verify.
Beehaw? I’ve had nothing but good interactions with them, personally.
They’re alright now, but they used to be pretty bad. No negativity allowed whatsoever.
I remember there was some sort of thread asking disabled people if they like being disabled…
and the people who said no were banned for being negative lol
I can’t remember why I blocked them exactly, to be honest, but I remember thinking they were almost as annoying as hexbear users, and I can’t be bothered to go have a second look now to see exactly why. Clearly, I was annoyed with them enough to block them, as the ones I listed above are the only instances I have blocked save for lemmynsfw (which is just because I don’t care for porn in my feed).
Beehaw’s primary identity as an instance is “to be nice to people” which you know what, that’s fine, but personally I think it’s super annoying lol. Also there are some users from that instance who were also outspoken and especially annoying but I don’t see them commenting as much these days.
Beehaw has been… difficult. If you disagree that something is *phobia or *phobic then it’s a quick way to get them mad at you.
I remember somebody ( person A) getting especially angry because another person (person B) used the pronoun “them” to refer to person A. It was pointed out that not every client shows the pronouns beside the username and still it was considered *phobic.
That sounds frustrating. I understand what their instance is all about and I want to believe they’re mostly decent people who sometimes wrongly lash out at perceived slights.
Most instances that are “nice to people” have the tendency to not allow most opinions and their admins are prone to powertripp. I think their instance basically shut down due to funding, thats the last info i had.
??? (Mostly) Nothing wrong with Beehaw or pawb.social, most are good people around those parts
now I might not remember why I blocked beehaw but I know damn well the animal fetishists are not “good people”, thank you
and just from your instance name… yeah that’s another one on the list
Animal fetishists?! You mean… furries?
NGL I thought my instance had gone off the rails while I wasn’t looking for a second there. Getting lumped in with hexbear and .ml is pretty rough. Beehaw? Good company imho.
The worst part is his comments were upvoted a lot when I commented that… there’s probably a few chaps who have the impression that everyone on the furry instances is the reincarnation of Lenin now lol
Yeah… especially considering our general stances on things, that inversion really sucks. Hopefully this isn’t a common opinion.
Reading that actually made me double-take and check the modlogs. It was so…. Confident.
I think we have a relict from the mid-2000s in our midst, back when half the internet was in open war with furries.
I know, it must be hard for kids to understand a time before they were born, but don’t worry, someday you’ll be explaining the facts of life to youngsters yourself.
Man, I was in the trenches of online forums at the time. I was PART of those times. I just eventually grew up past being an edgy preteen.
so just to recap, you gained a newfound appreciation for animal fetishists, and you… think that’s a sign of maturity and growth?
okay then. I’ll just leave you to it then, champ, you have fun with that <3
The lolocaust was specifically about furries that liked to spam furry porn and be obnoxious. They deserved what they got. https://en.wikifur.com/wiki/Something_Awful
Guy uses “degenerates” straight and is complaining about commies, progressives and furries. 90% they’re a cryptofash.
Thank you for pointing this out, I was quite surprised it got this many upvotes.
I’m too lazy to look through their comment history at the moment, but you’re probably right.
You dont have to look far. Literally just this thread
Hating on beehaw makes perfect sense, then. Fascists and an empathy-negating neurosis, generally due to early childhood trauma in that area, name a more iconic duo. All those other things (commies, progressives, furries) actually have their fascist versions but hippies? Forget it. Incompatible in principle.
There’s a lot of weird hippie cults, including Charles Manson’s. If your hippieism leans towards the aesthetic then it’s perfectly compatible with fascism. Not to mention the weird Californian ideology that isn’t straight fascism but sure is authoritarian in its anti-authoritarianism.
Fascism is by definition syncretic. It eats whatever it finds and makes more of itself, with rigid power structures and might makes right logic. Every large enough movement can have a fascist version of itself.
actually have their fascist versions but hippies? Forget it. Incompatible in principle.
♪ Now it is 1984 ♪
♪ Knock-knock at your front door ♪
♪It’s the suede denim secret police ♪
♪ They have come for your uncool niece! ♪
yes, that’s what I said. animal fetishists, furries, dogfuckers, etc. You hard of
hearingreading?-
You read text, you don’t listen to it
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You must have come from 10 years ago because nobody has opinions as cringe and childish as “furries bad zoophiles” anymore
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okay, just one question: do furries/does furry porn sexualize animals, yes or no? No mental gymnastics allowed, one word answer.
if yes, congratulations, I’ve just proven my point, better luck next time, sport
if you think not, lol. Furthermore, lmao.
one word answer
Nah that’s not how the world works buddy. Only children think in binaries.
okay, just one question: do furries/does furry porn sexualize animals, yes or no? No mental gymnastics allowed, one word answer.
You asked two questions and tell me to give you one answer. Nice try senator.
Also a majority of things require answers more complex than a simple “yes” or “no”, because the world isn’t the simple land that it seems to be in your head. However, luckily for you, these questions do have relatively simple yes-or-no answers.
To your first question: No, furries don’t by default sexualize animals. It’s weird that you even come to the conclusion that they do.
To your second question: Also no. You can argue that furry art is usually depictions of animals, and that furry porn sexualizes those depictions, but even that’s pretty shaky because anthropromorphized beings that have a vague resemblance to animals are hard to argue as being similar enough to the real thing that it’s “sexualizing (a depiction of) [animal]”. I wouldn’t call you out on saying that furry drawings are depictions of animals, even though I think that’s flawed logic, but it’s not even remotely similar to “sexualizing animals” (e.g. zoophilia)
also this
Unluckily for you, my friend, I took a screenshot when you posted that since I had a feeling you would edit your mistake out. Get pranked lol
do furries/does furry porn sexualize animals, yes or no?
pretty sure animals aren’t asexual
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I don’t know, yiffit folks seem very nice. Not always safe for work, though.
I think my instance already bans beehaw, though. I forget why, unfortunately.
Didn’t beehaw defederate from lemmy.world a year ago because they felt it had a bad influence on itself? Mb not theexact reason’ but something like that scratches my mind
Beehaw wanted to be its own thing and didn’t trust outside users to follow their specific rules. So they defederated to be their own network, which was a really bad idea. Though it contributed a lot to SJW’s growth, so that’s something
They defeated from most of the instances and are almost irrelevant now.
I mean seeing how negative and pissy some sects of the users are on lemmy.world, I can’t really blame them. The technology and gaming community on there are so unhelpful and the comments are just variations of “enshittification” or “modern gaming/tech sucks” which…yeah we know, we’re on Lemmy.
At least Beehaw users, in my experience, actually read the articles and discuss the topics at hand. Even if there is a lower userbase to engage with, I end up learning something new or productive.
Gladly most of them blocked us(ani.social), i only blocked Lemmy.world and Midwest.social one for spam and one because seahorse is a powertripping asshole.
Wow, your reasoning is uh… well it sure is interesting… can’t say I see where you’re coming from. lemmy.world is like the most conservative instance I can think of
I can screenshot your comments as well, doesn’t make them more or less correct. I stand by what i said, lemmy.world is full of people i would call woke, or rather fall into the woke spectrum of my country.
This is objectively correct and downvotes won’t change that.
And when LW is the most conservative instance you can think of, i think your moral compass is upside down. I did see some “conservatives” (nazis) on LW but the majority belongs to the new left movement, especially regarding their antisemitism.
Pray tell, which of the instances have you spotted that are less leftist than lemmy.world? The only ones I can imagine are lemmy.ca and midwest.social, but that’s just a guess.
Also what do you mean by “new left” movement? There are a lot of left movements, but not really any that I can think of that diverge greatly from previous left movements.
“Woke” doesn’t mean anything. It’s a vague, catch-all term used by chuds, for “lefties” and people who want social equality usually, which is obviously not a bad thing, so you must not be using it in that sense.
You seem to already have read the thread. Go look there.
Oh and there are instances that just practice full free speech as long as its not illegal where they host LW bans people for speaking the truth, especially regarding Israel vs Russia and Iran(by proxy)
The new left is the Israel hating crowd of the left because its against imperialism or something stupid along those lines. Oh also they are hyper sensitive regarding the use of words they feel like it could hurt someone, and im not talking about the n-word or similarly high grade insults. Also these people tend to speak for people they don’t know and who don’t associate with them, wich is especially bad jn my country because these idiots want to completely change our language because its “more inclusive”
Im politically Old left, workers unions, reasonable climate policies, inclusiveness where it is necessary and reasonable and so on, these people in the “woke” spectrum are usually the people that pipeline people to the right with their unintelligent and crazy behavior.
And woke is just a good fitting therm for the new left idiots, because these people made this therm about themselves.
Oh and there are instances that just practice full free speech as long as its not illegal where they host LW bans people for speaking the truth, especially regarding Israel vs Russia and Iran(by proxy)
I have not seen a SINGLE one of those instances. And my instance federates with literally everything except for like 3 instances. I’m not saying you’re making things up, but outside of extreme fringe communities, almost every (large) Lemmy instance is as “woke” or more “woke” than lemmy.world. lemmy.blahaj.zone, lemm.ee, lemmy.ml, probably even sh.itjust.works (that one’s debatable), lemmy.dbzer0.com, sopuli.xyz… I can go on and on. Leftism is way more prevalent in most of those. And yes, the kind that says you shouldn’t displace millions or be sexist.
The new left is the Israel hating crowd of the left
A large chunk of the left has always been anti-Zionism and pro-self-determination, because Israel is literally modern-day colonization. This isn’t anything new. The official government of Palestine is full-on Socialist, and it was founded 80 years ago (with other major leftist groups in Palestine dating back even before the Israeli colonization). It’s just the difference between the “leftists” who are okay with an ethnostate perpetrating an ethnic cleansing (Israel), and the leftists who aren’t.
because its against imperialism or something stupid along those lines.
For a lot of people that’s part of the reason, but most of the reason is they’re against the displacement, ethnic cleansing, and genocide of Palestinians that started during the colonization of the area by modern-day Israelis. The ruling party of Israel and most of the other parties in the government are descended from organizations that literally described themselves as terrorists, and butchered the population of Palestine since the early 1900s. And, get this, the dominating organizations during this era aligned themselves with Nazism – the Lehi (a faction of the Irgun, modern day Likud – Netanyahu’s party and Israel’s dominant party) proposed an alliance with Nazi Germany as they saw Great Britain as a larger threat to Jews. They described themselves and their members, I’m not even joking, as “National Bolshevik terrorists” (nazbols/communist nazis). Go figure.
Many of the members of government actively cheered on or committed genocide, and everyone alive knows someone who participated in the displacement and ethnic cleansing of Palestinians. The area didn’t just go from its population of 90% Muslim and 2% Jewish in 1800, to 81% Muslim and 8% Jewish in 1890, to 32% Jewish in 1947, to 89% Jewish in 1948 (the year the Nakba/ethnic cleansing of Arabs started), using kind words and diplomacy. (Jewish Virtual Library). Europeans encouraged Jews to colonize the area (which hadn’t been populated by Jews in large numbers since the 5th century) in order to get them out of the country (the early British Zionists in particular were keen on taking all the Jews in the UK and shipping them off to Israel, as antisemitism was the norm in western Europe until the whole World War 2 thing), and gave those newfound Israelis the weapons to blow up a whole lot of natives. These migrations were simply called Aliyah, and they happened in a few waves.
It is a state that is built upon, and cannot exist without, “Jewish supremacy”. It’s in the constitution, it’s in the law, it’s in their flag, the entirety of Israel exists specifically to be an ethnostate. And the foundation of Israel was by parties who aligned themselves with Nazi Germany, and who took great inspiration from them.
When you’re “leftist” – that is, when you’re for abolishing unjust hierarchies and moving towards social equality – the concept of Israel and its former and current actions is inherently counter to your ideology. There’s absolutely no getting around that.
Oh also they are hyper sensitive regarding the use of words they feel like it could hurt someone, and im not talking about the n-word or similarly high grade insults.
What words are these, exactly? If they’re not slurs then I don’t see what you’re talking about. Unless you’re referring to people talking about microaggressions – which is the linguistic phenomenon of biases against certain social groups being conveyed in language, which propogates harmful beliefs. You know, saying women or asians can’t drive well, saying you wouldn’t want to have a woman perform surgery on you, saying a guy hugging another guy is gay… obviously those are pretty shitty things to say.
Im politically Old left, workers unions, reasonable climate policies, inclusiveness where it is necessary and reasonable and so on, these people in the “woke” spectrum are usually the people that pipeline people to the right with their unintelligent and crazy behavior.
Yeah nah man you’re waffling. There is no “old left”. The left is more or less the same philisophy-wise; there are socially conservative people and socially progressive people – you, my friend, seem to be describing yourself as a socially conservative social democrat. There’s nothing more old or authentic or original about your philosophy – it’s just German centrism.
And woke is just a good fitting therm for the new left idiots, because these people made this therm about themselves.
The usage of the term in the social progressive context literally dates back to the 1930s. That’s almost certainly older than even your parents. How can you claim that that’s part of the “new left” when it’s been around in use longer than your country’s even existed?
It’s just the difference between the “leftists” who are okay with an ethnostate perpetrating an ethnic cleansing (Israel), and the leftists who aren’t.
Far as I’m concerned it’s ethnostate vs ethnostate. Although I question how a diverse country can be an ethnostate.
The ruling party of Israel and most of the other parties in the government are descended from organizations that literally described themselves as terrorists, and butchered the population of Palestine since the early 1900s.
Both regions have these roots though, with Gaza still having a terrorist organisation as its government.
And, get this, the dominating organizations during this era aligned themselves with Nazism – the Lehi (a faction of the Irgun, modern day Likud – Netanyahu’s party and Israel’s dominant party) proposed an alliance with Nazi Germany as they saw Great Britain as a larger threat to Jews.
again, both regions did. The region at the time was a proxy war between Axis forces and Allies. Israel later sided with Britain, and the Palestinians later sided with the Axis
The area didn’t just go from its population of 90% Muslim and 2% Jewish in 1800, to 81% Muslim and 8% Jewish in 1890, to 32% Jewish in 1947, to 89% Jewish in 1948 (the year the Nakba/ethnic cleansing of Arabs started), using kind words and diplomacy.
Hey! You’re leaving out the UN resolution to establish two states. Jews had to flee Palestine because the League of Arabs declared war on Israel. To this day, Jews still can’t find a home for themselves in arab nations. It was also Palestine and the League of Arabs that refused the two-state resolution. So don’t be implying there were no kind words and diplomacy.
Israelis the weapons to blow up a whole lot of natives.
uhhh, you do realise that Jews were also native to the area, right? Like long before Muslims colonised.
It is a state that is built upon, and cannot exist without, “Jewish supremacy”. It’s in the constitution, it’s in the law, it’s in their flag, it’s in the Muslims & Arabs in the country not having the civil rights of Jews, the entirety of Israel exists specifically to be an ethnostate.
Can you prove this? From what I’ve read about their laws, there’s nothing mentioning jewish supremacy. That is unless you consider the illegal settlements in the West Bank to be legitimate.
Halbe Bibel ganzer Hurensohn
lemmy.world is full of people i would call woke
That’s because you’re an idiot conservative
And when LW is the most conservative instance you can think of, i think your moral compass is upside dow
Conservatism vs liberalism bas nothing to do with someone’s moral compass you dipshit
People like you are the reason why so many people go towards the right side.
Fuck you.
Also you are literally a fucking nazi and exactly what i criticize on LW, your instance is worse but most shit doesn’t get federated, besides the piracy community.
Now respectfully, reconsider all your life choices and fuck off.
People like you are the reason why so many people go towards the right side.
If your worldview is so fragile that a couple mean comments turn you into a hateful shit bag rightoid, you were never on the left to start with, you’re just looking for some #walkaway excuse
Also you are literally a fucking nazi
“Everyone who disagrees with me is a Nazi” makes you look like the child you are.
Now respectfully, reconsider all your life choices and fuck off.
Take your own advice, and also go touch some fucking grass.
People like you are the reason why so many people go towards the right side.
If someone turns fascist because their skins so think they can’t handle a random from the Internet insulting them: that’s because they were human trash to begin with
Also you are literally a fucking nazi
Nice projection
Now respectfully, reconsider all your life choices and fuck off.
More projection. It’s so cute how mad you ignorant fascist fucks get when challenged by a basic insult
Watch your blood pressure, I’m sure someone as terminally online as you probably has issues with that kind of thing
Bro you are literally a no lifer that gone out of their way to downvoted all my recent comments and posts, you are the very definition of a fucking clown Nazi. Also i said fuck off. I mean it just go be a unbearable person somewhere else.
but the majority belongs to the new left movement, especially regarding their antisemitism.
You’re one of those that believe any criticism of Israel is antisemitic, aren’t you?
Fuck Israel, Jews are cool, and fuck you.
Average lemmy world terrorism supporting nazi shitlord. Go fuck yourself you know full well its not criticism to call genocide and what not when a country defends itself. Are you going to scream genocide now that Ukraine invaded Russia? Cause of you do, you are a troll nazi, if not you are a hypocritical nazi.
I am calling Netanjahu a nazi shit head regularly, this doesn’t mean Israel should stop a war they didn’t start, and anyone wanting that is either a idiot supporting Terrorists unknowingly or a 100% nazi terrorism supporter, and im calling it nazi because hamas and many other islamist terrorists groups are the children of WW2 nazi propaganda, especially anything that has to do with Iran. There is valid criticism, but on lemmy, especially lemmyworld there is just the terrorism supporters or the few people wanting Israel to exterminate the terrorists by all means necessary.
But seeing you get defensive over me calling you people nazi probably very much hits the target perfectly.
Oh, OK. You’re completely unhinged and have added nothing to the discourse.
I’m going to stoop to your level before not engaging further: I’m not a Nazi, you’re a Nazi! :p
you’re a nazi! and you’re a nazi!
If Ukraine starts bombing noncombatants at hospitals and schools, blocking food and water, and executing journalists I bet people would call that genocide.
idunno if criticism of Israel can automatically be antisemitic when they’re a diverse country of different ethnicities and religions.
What’s your beef with seahorse?
Sums it up quite well https://lemmy.world/post/18414833
“I don’t care”
“deleted by user”
lol
I recently added midwest.social to my list.
I did saw something controversial (apparently) on grad and simply asked what I said wrong and having an open mind showed that they can interact normally… But Hexbear is just straight up poisoning me lol
Beehaw? The most adorable place in the lemmy space IMO!
If you don’t like them fine, but please reconsider lumpung them together with the crazy fascist ones please 😊
I guess I understand, but I dig through all the shit to bring my starving people fresh maymay each day anyway.
Its not much, but I do it for those ungrateful bastards just the same.
Kinda feels like this is an ad for Hexbear
Lol who are you?
There is literally no mention of you in the hexbear modlog
https://hexbear.net/pictrs/image/e93ae8e2-4247-418b-856b-6b46a782d3e1.png
some people have multiple accounts.
The OP made this post after making this comment: https://hexbear.net/comment/5242415
Good to see Hexbear hasn’t gotten any less awful.
I would never infringe upon a user’s right to talk about billionaires
Truly is 15 year old edgelord city over there.
they’re trying to revolutionise damnit.
just without the violence, or swearsies or naughty no-no words
Oh weird! I can see and interact with the instance fine now… I wasn’t able for a couple days weirdly
Might’ve been federation issues
Ah, I see you said something controversial, like “Theocracy bad” or “Imperialist capitalist state bad”. The tankies don’t like those positions for some reason.
Bruh I poked the hexbear once when a dude was arguing over exactly how to classify the Uyiger genocide. Something about how “it’s not a genocide, but just an ethnic cleansing” they really didn’t like when I pointed out just how weird of an argument that is. Fascists usually short circuit pretty fast under redicule
I had one argue “the Soviet space program did amazing things without the benefits of imperialism”, which is a statement I can only ridicule. Then, to prove how not imperialist the Soviet Union was, he proceeded to explain how much imperialism the United States did. Yes, I’m quite aware of how much imperialism the United States did. That’s not the issue here.
I originally joined Lemmy with a lemmy.ml account by mistake. I was arguing with a brainlet who told me the Soviets could not possibly have been bad because they fought the Nazis. When I asked what that meant regarding apartheid USA I got banned from .ml.
apartheid USA
What?
I am an idiot, I should have written “segregated.”
If you want the really specific term, it’s Jim Crow, after the Jim Crow laws passed in the south after reconstruction. The effects of Jim Crow reach us today and will for a long time
You see what makes a Nazi isn’t actually killing millions of people. It’s only killing millions of Russians. The reason why the Nazis are evil is not actually because they are evil but because they went against the Russians.
That’s how many of the Russians see it anyway, and by extension many tankies. The only difference is tankies have to try and sound reasonable to a Western leftist audience.
it’s not a genocide, but just an ethnic cleansing
Those are synonyms, FFS. 🤦♂️
Dude needs to crack open a dictionary or a thesaurus.
It’s only a genocide if it comes from the state of Germany. Everything else is just sparkling ethnic cleansing. /S
oh you spoke to the developers too? haha
If you simply choose to embrace the same euphemism for genocide as them and also pretend that having a euphemism excuses the genocide, then you could get along.
All I did was point out how their meme responses were childish and cringy.
Banned.
thankfully, lemmy world spared me the trouble of having to block the instance myself.
You should do it anyway.
ah yes the leftist communist instance
The authoritarian communist instance.
yep
I’m somewhat convinced that all the Tankie servers have some unspoken agreement to ban the same dissenters.
I doubt it’s even unspoken.
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Go on Hexbear
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Post a non-hexbear thing
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Get a comment in my inbox
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Be incredibly mad
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Post another thing on hexbear
:-/
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Can relate, the people from that instance are bonafide shitrilers, born a century too late to join Hitler’s youth so they join hexbear instead.
