“Kenny just began to gasp for air repeatedly and the execution took about 25 minutes total.”
Pretty compassionate way to kill a person.
Once again, the Law in the south is brutal.
So they fucked it up and then there’s a real gem in the article. The jury voted to give him life without parole. A judge overruled that jury to give him the death penalty anyways.
There are no more laws. Only the whims of judges.
There are many accounts of workers accidentally entering confined spaces that have been purged with nitrogen and they were all unconscious in seconds. (OSHA records). If it took the prison 22 MINUTES to execute this guy, then they totally botched that execution.
The gas mixture clearly had oxygen still in it. If he’s gasping for air for 22 minutes, he was still receiving low amounts of O2.
Yeah I think when an airplane depressurizes at high altitude it’s something like 5 minutes and people are unconscious. And people just act like drunken idiots after one minute.
Remember in the event of depressurization, put your own mask on before helping others. Because you’re likely to be a just complete idiot that’s just getting in the way if your brain isn’t properly oxygenated.
But anyway… yeah these guys fucked up. A big problem with executions that people don’t talk about is that there isn’t a lot of overlap on the Venn diagram of people that are competent enough to perform an execution vs. the people who are willing to perform an execution.
Not defending what they did, but he was probably unconscious. His body was fighting for its life.
Quite the assumption
Unconscious doesn’t mean not suffering.
It kinda does though?
Cum doesn’t mean someone came
^Facts
78% of the air you and everyone breathes is nitrogen you dumb shit.
And that’s why, when you remove that critical 21% of oxygen, your body doesn’t realize it’s suffocating. You breath normally but pass out really quickly since your brain has nothing to burn.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inert_gas_asphyxiation?wprov=sfla1
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarco_pod?wprov=sfla1
Some reporter from Salon, or Wire - some big site like that - participated in a controlled nitrogen hypoxia experiment on himself, and wrote about it. It was really interesting, but search engines are flooded with that Alabama execution, and I lost interest in searching for it.
If you can find it https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1228865 is a good watch. It covers other methods, but it becomes clear how fast, effective, and painless nitrogen asphyxiation can be, as the presenter has to receive assistance in order not to die while attempting to get close to the experience (without dying).
It’s also a bit sad, as it makes it clear that for at least some capital punishment advocates, suffering is a desired part of the outcome.
I’d like to avoid death, but I can foresee a potential future when my quality of life is negative and no amount of volunteer effort can bring it positive. If that happens, I’d like to opt-in to mortality via inert gas (probably nitrogen) asphyxiation.
If we must have capital punishment, inert gas asphyxiation seems to be the best known way to do it. I’m not convinced we must have capital punishment, tho.
Nice! I hadn’t seen that.
People are going to need to die in controlled ways; whether in believing some people should be murdered by the State, or in believing people should be allowed to end their own lives, there are few Americans who don’t fall somewhere outside of the set of people who think there is never a case for controlled human death. Most of those people are probably Amish, or some branch thereof.
Alabama clearly fucked this one up - I guess that’s what happens when you drive all of the STEM folks out of your state. There was no reason - other than wanting a person to suffer, as you said - for it to have gone so wrong. Justified or not, if I were to ever find myself in that chair, asphixiation by
nitrousnitrogen is absolutely the way I’d want to go. And that’s the most basic measure of humanity we need: do unto others.Edit: typo
I agree with you but please note it is nitrogen, not nitrous, being discussed.
But – nitrous (N2O) is more fun and has just as little usable oxygen – zero
For easy access to an inert gas at-home, try a helium tank from the Party Store
Yeah, that was a mistype. I mean, nitrous might be fun, but I meant nitrogen.
Thanks for pointing that out!
Found on Vimeo: link
If download preferred: via swisstransfer.com
Is this bait? Lol
Water is also 33% oxygen but I dare you to try to breathe it
What are you even hinting at? That breathing 100% nitrogen is fine??
Fun fact for friendly posters: companies that make gas detectors use lots of nitrogen because it’s a great “zero” gas. That is, 100% dry nitrogen equates to “nothing there” on sensors for all kinds of gases.
Including oxygen sensors! Did you know in air they measure 20.8% and in nitrogen they measure zero point zero?
The state tells you murder is illegal. Except when the state does it. You can’t expect people to follow, “do what I say, not what I do.”
It’s cruel, it’s a reflection of our morals. The death penalty is not a deterrent for murder. The death penalty is hypocrisy. The death penalty is for an unserious society.
But the death penalty is just a symptom of a greater chronic illness we suffer from. We’ll just continue to kill ourselves until we find a cure for the disease.
Edit: I see many do not like my wording for state sanctioned murder. If you are reading this and don’t understand, imagine if listening to George Bush (can’t remember which) tell the tv America doesn’t negotiate with terrorists. He’s drawing a moral line in the sand with terrorism. That’s my point. We need to figure out where our moral line in the sand is with the death penalty, because right now it’s all over the place. Do I think outlawing the death penalty will solve our societal woes? No, I do not. The people will demand it until it is reinstated. For me I ask what is the purpose of the death penalty? Does it serve a greater good for a society? Obviously it does not. Americans are murdered all the time, so it serves no purpose.
The cure is education. Unfortunately they are killing that, too.
Good education is so underrated, yet so difficult to actually get, especially with these silly book bans and stuff which only serve to narrow students’ perspectives
I want to preface this by saying I am against the death penalty.
The argument
The state tells you murder is illegal. Except when the state does it.
really falls apart when you consider all the other things the state is allowed to do that would be otherwise illegal. The simplest comparison is imprisonment but there are dozens of others.
Exactly, the government has a monopoly on a lot of things, among them violence and as an extent of that monopoly also incarceration.
I can see how some people have a hard time grasping that. I mean most of us would like to have no violence at all, so allowing some that power can seem strange. But how about traffic laws?
You can’t get in your car and go 200km/h down the road, which I sometimes would like to, but I hope we all can see how everyone doing 200, where 80 is more appropriate, would be a problem. So we’re ok with police/fire/rescue being the only ones allowed to break the speed limits and running red lights, right? It’s the same thing.
We’ve got specially trained people, who have been given strict guidelines for doing stuff ordinary citizens can’t do, because the society need something done that can’t be done without these powers … and who have oversight (hopefully), so these powers aren’t abused.
How’d you make your comment in bold font?
Does your text box not have a little “B” above it? If not **text** will make it bold. Surrounding the text with a single * will make it italics.
thank you*
I think you are onto something. The cure will be found when nobody is left. /S
Only situation I’d accept a death sentence is if a person indisputably poses a credible threat to other peoples lives, even while imprisoned.
Essentially, anybody previously convicted of murder who then proceeds to (beyond any doubt) attempt murder again. At that point it’s not about punishment, it’s about protecting human life.
I will also preface this by saying I am 100% against the death penalty. The fact that we could put an innocent person to death for what I see as zero gain makes it very hard to convince me otherwise.
However:
The state tells you murder is illegal. Except when the state does it.
Murder is by definition the illegal killing of someone. Unless I’m mistaken, every state has some law on the book that allows you to kill someone, at least in the case of self defense or the defense of another when it’s reasonable to believe there is imminent danger to one’s life. And the defense of the DP is that it’s “defending” society against these criminals. It’s BS, but your point is also incorrect.
This is kind of a silly argument. The state is not a person. When they fine you money, it is not identical to someone stealing from you.
Ah, so it is okay for institutions to murder people. Gotcha.
The state doesn’t intentionally murder innocent people. Your argument is invalid.
The state does not care whether they are innocent as well, and that callousness is just as bad from the eyes of people living in a civilized society…
I’m pretty sure this guys’s guilt was beyond dispute. States have so many appeals and checks on capital punishment that it is much, much cheaper to default to life in prison. The economic argument isn’t noble but should be included in the debate.
It’s estimated that 4% of prisoners on death row are innocent. Sure, we’re certain about this guy, but that’s the case for those 4%, as well.
That’s a good argument for increasing the threshold of guilt for capital crimes. But of those legitimately and obviously guilty, do they owe a debt equal to their own life for murdering someone else?
How does their death pay for that debt? There is no compensation, no restitution has been made, nothing else is corrected. So, why?
It would be restoration by proxy. I once had a friend who stole money. He did not know the person and could never find him again. To make restoration he gave an equal amount plus reasonable interest to a charity, anonymously. The charity was a proxy for the man from whom he stole.
Can you proved evidence to this opinion of yours?
Which opinion? That the state doesn’t care about whether a victim of a murderer is innocent or also a criminal? You can look up just about any criminal case and see that criminals are just as often victims of crime as any ‘innocent’ person. Literally, a compatriot dying while committing a crime with you will get you charged with Felony Murder.
If you mean that the state doesn’t care if it executes innocent people, well: https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/policy-issues/innocence
So aside from your opinion… and a link that doesn’t even suggest what states actually care about,
got anything else?
deleted by creator
Woah there, kiddo. It appears you haven’t learned how crime and punishment works. You see, there are varying degrees of crimes, and thus- varying degrees of punishment.
This is why shoplifters aren’t executed.
Hopefully this simple reference will keep you from embarrassing yourself in the future.
deleted by creator
Removed by mod
Removed by mod
Civilian murderers also have justifications for their actions. I accept those justifications just as much as I do those of the State murderers.
This place is so stupid sometimes they’d fight for the rights of their own families murderer’s. No point in trying to put facts in front of people like that. They’ve made their decision.
Oh I know. I’d be surprised none of them reported my comment simply because they disagree with it. Lemmy LOVES being outraged.
Lemmy LOVES being outraged.
Sorry, who’s being outraged here?
Seems Lemmy also loves coming to conclusions on people they know nothing about.
Seems Lemmy also loves coming to conclusions on people they know nothing about.
So how is what I said about you being outraged different from what you said about “Lemmy” being outraged?
Because I’m showing no indications of actually being outraged, and Lemmy does tens of thousands of times daily.
That’s how.
Stop executions.
Imagine actually allowing the government to murder people, dumbest thing we ever allowed 🙄
If someone kills your loved one on purpose for no good reason. What do you want to happen to that person?
Right or wrong shouldn’t change even if I’m really angry. That’s fucking illogical.
Not for them to be killed. I’m not a psycho.
capture, retention, rehabilitation if possible. get over your revenge fantasy.
You’ve obviously never met an evil person before. Because they exist, and they want nothing but harm done. And I want nothing but death for them.
keep on with that whole “evil” thing, I’m sure you’re onto something.
Dude it’s been 4 days
I don’t check my notifications often
Killing them I don’t think will help. I wouldn’t forgive them. But I hope society is able to rehabilitate that person, because killing others isn’t something I believe is an accepted normal thing to do, and that person has problems that need resolving.
For them to live a long and uncomfortable life faced every day with the consequences of their actions, and removal of their freedom for their act of destroying the freedom of another
Hi kiddo.
My dad came from Belfast. During the troubles one of my cousins was murdered by a protestant foot soldier. He went to jail.
Killing him wouldn’t bring my cousin back.
One of mine was murdered. I’m still anti death penalty.
Is the purpose of punishing criminals preventing people from doing crimes or to satisfy someone’s revenge fantasies? A state that has the right to kill its own citizens is a state with way too much power.
I’ll be that one guy and back you up on this one. Mind you it would probably have to be a “have nothing else left” state, but you bet your damned ass I would find a way to exact revenge.
People in my region voted away the mental health and rehab centers so instead we have very limited rehab options and multiple stabbings from repeat offenders who just get let out again because it doesn’t work and we have no resources in containment either. I guess there is more forgiveness in others than I possess seeing as after 10+ assaults and damaging multiple small businesses (no shareholders no crime? /s) this guy is still out and about. Eventually he will kill someone and maybe the family of the victim will shower him with kindness and warmth too.
Why don’t you kill him yourself? You seem to think you’ll be praised a hero. Why make someone else do your dirty work? Could it be because like the rest of us you don’t have the stomach for murder?
He has nothing to do with me and I wasn’t even trying to imply he should be killed, just noting that there is clearly no working rehab type solution in place. Drugs and the continually increasing cost of living are only going to compound the problem. And I’m not so deluded to think I would be praised for murder. I’d have to be an extremist far right American politician or cop or something for that. I don’t know where you get the idea of someone else doing it either.
Who can really judge anyone though. What is to stop a stabbing victim on an adrenaline rush from grabbing the blade, biting the hand holding it, and stabbing back repeatedly while screaming? Who’s fault is it? When you are bleeding out after being stabbed do you need to feel sorry for the man stabbing you, and think about how he lived a hard life and was just down on his luck and had his mind repeatedly eroded by drugs after what was intended to be a brief respite from the difficulties of merely being alive and not birthed by at least moderately wealthy and mentally stable parents? Do you have to stop and think about whether it is wrong to kill and decide whether it would be better to bleed out alone and hope someone helps in time, or will he finish you off after your consciousness fades and run off with the $12.50 in your pocket and a stack of mostly useless cards?
That’s only a theoretical case where both parties could be considered victims in some way. What about the famous serial killer that had an otherwise normal life and a family that was supposedly totally clueless and lived to a ripe old age before being caught? I seem to recall one or more cases of a man keeping a girl trapped in part of his house and raping her for years, somehow also without his family noticing. I don’t really want to type in the search terms to try to find an article for that though. There are certainly no shortage of cases of people absolutely ruining the lives of others while living a life something like the American dream on the side.
If life was a video game you would probably go through a long journey to find the true villain that put everyone in the position, making friends along the way, questioning whether revenge would ease the pain or just make you feel empty, have some uplifting spiritual cleansing and the start of a romance, and then find out the real villains were legion but they were also all long dead and acting from beyond the grave. The systems they put in place had long normalized the suffering of all and contained sweet words and false promises that blinded people to the hypocrisies as they searched for an ultimately limited personal gain. Everyone comes together to change things for the better, but not enough people vote accordingly and they ended up losing rights previously earned through the sacrifices of their ancestors. The moral of the story is that life sucks and you die so forgive your murderers and give all your earnings to your corporate overlords.
What about billionaires? Can we at least execute them?
Removed by mod
No it isn’t enough. Also what makes you think you can take their wealth? The only way is through guillotines
deleted by creator
Well if you want to execute billionaires then I’m not going to stand in your way. But I absolutely oppose having civil courts ordering death sentences.
Lemmy is so fucking dumb. Down voting anyone who says certain guilty people should be killed. Then someone says hey what about billionaires and up votes all over. Like they realized “oh yeah some people are pieces of shit and don’t deserve to live with the rest of us” DUH you fucking morons lol
So is that a yes?
Hell yeah fuck billionaires. Execute all of them. I’d be happy and the world would be better off.
Atta boy! That’s the spirit
Hahaha alright lemmy. The death penalty is fine when you deem it’s alright. Bunch of hypocrites on this site lmao
Cool story bro.
Not sure why you keep addressing lemmy. Do you think it’s just one person? Have you not figured out that lemmy is full of different people with different opinions?
I know fucking crazy right? Who would have imagined something as crazy as that.
Welcome to the internet guy. First time?
That does not sound dumb to me, just like you can’t interpret social cues?
No
Welcome to the 21st century, you might want to read up on what’s up in most developed countries.
Hang on, I’ma let you finish, but let me finish this comment chain real fast:
Me: No
Someone else: yes
Someone else(2): no
Someone else(3): yes
ad infinitum
Yes
No
Yes.
No
Gruesome.
I’m not convinced the death penalty is worthwhile except to feed someone’s wrath.
What if, (and hear me out,) we did for corrections the sort of thing that countries with low recidivism do? Like, not use for-profit prisons with incentive to turn out re-offenders, and not use prisons that turn out hardened criminals that aren’t equipped to function in the world without resorting to crime, and actually take the ‘corrections’ or ‘rehabilitation’ parts of their nomenclature seriously?
If all we do with our prisons is punish and humiliate (and squeeze slave labor out of) convicts, we’re just creating future crime and all that’s left at that point is killing convicts at industrial pace unless you can figure out that crime is more driven by poverty than anything else, and the USA just doesn’t want to figure that out because it just doesn’t want to solve poverty or crime, it wants to make money creating and punishing both.
It is seriously incredible that in the United States prisons are for profit. Healthcare and water are for profit too…
Only 8 percent of US prisoners are in for profit prisons. This is definitely a problem, but it’s not the main problem with our justice system, by any means. The way we focus on punishment instead of rehabilitation is a bigger problem than the fact that for profit prisons exist. I mean, getting rid of for profit prisons is a start, but the whole thing needs reform.
The cruelty (and profit it generates) is the point
Removed by mod
Removed by mod
That message might be more effective if it weren’t associated with a weird doomsday cult that most people don’t like.
I had no idea Albert Einstein was in a doomsday cult. Now. Should I believe a space cowboy on the internet; or one of the most intelligent people to have ever lived?
Marxists believe in a destiny where there’s a complete failure of society. Late-stage capitalism and all that. There will be a great revolution, lots of people will die. Doomsday. It’s inevitable. It’s destined to happen.
But much like revelations, there will be a judgment day, but instead of Jesus there will a dictatorship of the proletariat. But that will fade away. Like a rapture or something like that. And then we will have heaven on earth, a worker’s paradise for all eternity. It has been prophesized by some weirdo with a big beard 200 years ago. It was written, so it shall be!
Soviet Union? That doesn’t count! The stars weren’t aligned properly and they were doing too much farming and not enough factory work. Well they did have factories, but things happened in the incorrect order. The prophecy from the man with the big beard specified the exact order things would happen in and the Soviet Union didn’t follow that order precisely! It doesn’t count!
The prophecy of the man with the big beard will happen any day now! We’ve seen the signs. LATE. STAGE. CAPITALISM. Our destiny is upon us!
Any day now!
Marxism LOL.
You, sir, have made my day. This is worthy of Reddit Gold.
Ever heard the phrase “Socialism or Barbarism”? Marxists don’t believe socialism is an inevitable result of the end of capitalism. Socialism has to be built, the entire theory of Marxism is that we observe the history of the world (i.e. the history of class struggle) and, rather than waiting around for history to happen on its own, we intelligently act on historical forces and cultivate a better world we want to live in.
If we just wait around for capitalism to collapse on its own, i.e. wait for what comes after late stage capitalism, we might all die.
Capitalism could very well collapse into a post-apocalyptic hell where a few million survivors huddle around the poles to survive.
Or just a nuclear war and total human extinction. Or a fascist Mars colony where only the elite are allowed to escape Earth. Etc.
Yes, I understand that you believe in an inevitable doomsday and it’s all based on some complicated system you’ve devised from reading the texts or whatever.
But that’s what every doomsday cult says.
Do the texts specify date for the end times? I like the doomsday cults that do that because when the date comes and goes it’s kinda funny. But I guess marxists don’t do that otherwise it would’ve died out a long time ago.
Capitalism sucks but it outlasted the Soviet Union. Capitalism also outlasted a hell of a lot of college professors that believed in it. Most people just grow out of it when they realize how silly the whole thing is. Others grow old thinking “any day now.”
The reality is no one really knows where things are headed. People find it comforting to hear from people that act like they’re certain of the future. Even if the future they talk about is a doomsday. But it’s all bullshit, no one knows the future.
What we observe in capitalism is that it depletes resources as fast as possible in order to maximize profit. That’s obviously impossible on a finite planet, and that’s why we’re running into real limits because of climate change. “The texts” are just the scientific observations on when the ice caps and glaciers will be gone, when the fossil fuels will be too expensive to continue, when the rainforests will be gone, when the top soil will be depleted, when the oceans will acidify too much to support shellfish and corals, etc etc.
Saying we can’t predict any of these things is unscientific. You’re like a mystified peasant that refuses to believe feudalism will ever end.
Next you’ll say that some magical technology will solve all those problems and save us, and that is just blind faith in a cult of progress.
They are beyond our understanding. They’re like a fire juggler at a luau. It’s best to not get in their way while they’re working.
You will always have some crazy evil mfucker even if you give them all of it. There were a gang in my country from mid class families that robbed houses. They went in a van and stole until the last TV. Human CAN BE evil by nature. It happens in other species too. Bears kill salmon just for pleasure.
Mental illnesses will never be eliminated, but can be managed. Raising material wealth in society will never eradicate crime, but it will lessen its likelihood.
It’s not just the prison system that’s fucked. It’s society in general.
A former prisoner will always be shunned. No matter if rehabilitated or not, people will always fear a former prisoner (at least in cases of brutality or sexuality) and often even former accused people. That also makes the whole system absurd. If people don’t trust in rehabilitation and therefore always push former criminals away and back into one corner or another, we might as well continue/intensify killing them right away; society decided that there is no way back, so why bother. And that sucks.
Removed by mod
I don’t support capital punishment.
But hypoxia in humans is well studied. Unless they were using monumental stupid gas like CO2 (which triggers your breathing reflex) then the problem wasn’t the method, in principle.
I wouldn’t put it past a execution supporter to fuck it up somehow, though.
When is America going to learn that you can’t punish murder with murder? You are literally saying “rules for thee but not for me.”
personally i think we should start doing a slightly modified version of the traditional british canon execution.
For those who aren’t familar, you strap a dude to the front of a canon, with a dud charge (i don’t believe there is a projectile) and then set it off and run. Apparently it’s pretty “spectacular” I say we do the same thing but delete the head in the process. Or perhaps add a canon ball because why not.
If we’re executing people theres no need to pretend what we’re doing is “good”
Iran’s hanging people in public, America gasses them with private viewing.
For your consideration.
Are you arguing that “at least America is better than Iran”? That’s a pretty low bar.
Where do you see that being argued?
Iran’s hanging people in public, America gasses them with private viewing.
For your consideration.
And what argument are you inferring from that statement?
I already stated what I thought you were arguing. This is now your opportunity to clarify if I’ve misunderstood.
And what argument are you finding in the above statement? The statement was offered without comment, I’m curious what you’ve inferred from it.
I already stated what I thought you were arguing.
I don’t know anything about this other than the guy most have been pretty terrible to be on death row but even a brutal killer should have some rights nobody deserves to die like that
There’s also this bit…
When asked at the news conference about Smith shaking at the beginning of the execution, Hamm said Smith appeared to be holding his breath “for as long as he could” and may have also “struggled against his restraints.”
That’s false spin. Nitrogen air is just regular air minus oxygen, 78% of the air you breathe is nitrogen. He was suffocated to death simply put, he died of hypoxia. It would be like someone getting shot, but then taking 5-8 minutes to slowly die minus the immediate burning pain of a gun shot or sudden drop in consciousness from immediate/fast bleed out.
He only killed one person too. Seems he killed the wrong person, maybe someone with power/connections. It makes no sense how he gets the death penalty but other murders don’t.
I don’t believe in the death penalty first off its cheaper just to give someone life Imprisonment and second its morally wrong
… and third sometimes they get it wrong and execute an innocent person. You can release an innocent person from prison when you screw up, but there no undo for an execution.
Fourth, the process of carrying out an execution can get botched. While there are plenty of people that have the necessary skills needed to carry out an execution, nearly all of those people won’t do it because of that hippocratic oath thing.
Fifth, it’s just a bad look. It feels like it’s more about revenge and than justice, and it’s important to not get these things confused.
This 100% agree
How is it cheaper though? I don’t support death penalty, but I fail to see how it’s cheaper to keep them alive?
Someone who’s life is on the line will tend use every possible legal resource possible to avoid getting killed. Survival instinct.
On the other side, people making the decision to kill a guy tend to want to make sure they got it right.
So lots of appeals, lots of time in the court. Lawyers and judges get paid a lot more than prison guards, and the cost of prison guard is spread over many prisoners, while the cost of the judge and lawyers for an appeal is all just for that one person on death row. Courtrooms tend to be nicer than prison cells so the upkeep cost of infrastructure is also higher. Doesn’t take all that much time in a courtroom to come out to a higher cost than keeping a guy in a prison for the rest of his life.
even a brutal killer should have some rights
Dude, sincerely, fuck off.
What you do to the worst is a good indicator of how we treat everyone else
Pray tell, what is your favourite method of execution?
As a general rule I tend to avoid killing people whenever possible
Obviously. It’s far too much work. That’s what I pay my executioners for.
Snu Snu
Guillotine
Firing squad, guillotine. Walk the plank.
His victim died far more painfully if that helps.
Justice isn’t revenge.
Never said it was.
Justice is giving what’s owed. And that’s a great thing to argue about: What did he owe? To the family, the victim, and society. The question would be easy if taking his life restored the life of the woman he murdered. But that’s not possible. However I have seen arguments that would require his death so organs could be harvested to save the life of others who would otherwise die. I’m not comfortable with that but do think that debate needs to happen.
Are you fucking mad? You want to give the state an incentive to murder prisoners? What the fuck is wrong with you?
ALL COPS ARE BAD
I think we need to have the debate. If you murder someone, do you owe your life if it can save the life of another?
As a transplant recipient who is now listed for a second transplant.
Nobody wants the state to murder people to increase the supply of organs.
Stop couching your vengeance fantasies in altruism.
I read “autism” and thought, “holy shit, what did I miss?”
My brain is broken haha.
I hope you get your next transplant soon and everything goes well. Take care.
I think we need to have the debate.
Humans LONG before you had the debate already. Pick up a history book, please! You are not a unique snowflake with concepts this earth has never before thought about. Everything that rattles around in the paint-can on your neck has been debated for generations.
Find a major US newspaper who had addressed the debate any time in the past generation.
I’m sorry, people are justifying the death penalty by fucking harvesting organs?
These are some serious dumbshits who don’t think two syllables past what they are saying.
First of all, there’s the obvious ethical dilemma of sentencing someone to death because someone important needs a kidney and they happen to have the same rare blood type. You just know that’s bound to happen eventually, and you know it’ll be covered up. More than likely it’d be some trumped up charge against a black inmate who already had a life sentence and no means for recourse.
Second, the majority of murderers are criminals. And a lot of criminals have a history of drug abuse, alcoholism, and other risk factors for communicable disease and excessive wear on their organs. 99% of the organs to come out of this mill would be totally useless. No surgeon in the world would touch them with a 15ft forceps.
God it’s make more sense to auction off their organs as trophies and give the proceeds to reputable charities. I’d pay good money to have a serial rapists balls in a jar on my mantle. Thats a hell of a conversation piece.
Logical argument don’t work around here. These kids need to be outraged and there’s no stopping them.
“Logical”
For a sociopath maybe.
Good thing most of us live in a developed nation where we don’t try to take an eye for an eye, since that makes the whole world go blind. You can never be 100% certain they aren’t innocent.
Fancy quotes doesn’t make a thing true.
It does not. We are not animals.
We are, in fact, animals. You need to dial back your notions of personal divinity.
Yes. We are. My god what happened to public schooling?
So an eye for an eye?
False. He died far more painfully of hypoxia that took over 5 minutes and he was able to dread it coming for years.
Good.
A brutal killer should have no rights and should be killed brutally.
You sound like a republican
I don’t even live in America
Well you sound like the equivalent of a republican in your country probably a British conservative
Lmao guess again
He wasn’t a brutal killer, he was hired to kill someone and did it out of greed. That’s actually not brutality. Brutality would be someone raping someone and then killing them for glee. The state in this case is doing this out of brutality, they are doing it because it brings enjoyment and their method of execution is quite brutal.
Could you do it? Would you make someone else do it for you?
Come on, isn’t this america? Why don’t they just shoot prisoners?! It’s quick, cheap and they love shooting, don’t they? Coming up with so many twisted ways to kill a person just to do it differently than the Nazis. If even Belarus is still officially shooting their people, why isn"t the greatest country in the world?
/s because I can’t handle thisMississippi authorizes firing squad if nitrogen hypoxia, lethal injection, and electrocution are held unconstitutional or “otherwise unavailable.”
Oklahoma & Utah have similar rules.
Because guns don’t kill people. The NRA said so.
Holy shit, you’re right. Firing squad would be kinder. And I hate guns, so…
Every day you wake up and think, “There’s no way America can get even more fucked up than it was yesterday”.
And every day some asshole says “wanna bet…watch this.”
I’m curious how they implemented this. The air completely has to be replaced with nitrogen, no breathing in a mix of nitrogen and outside air, no oxygen at all. People that enter confined spaces with no oxygen pretty much just drop and are dead quickly, so this doesn’t sound like they did it right.
They used a mask rather than the more appropriate method which would be to use a sealed chamber that was forcefully evacuated of oxygen and replaced by nitrogen the way the suicide pods are supposed to function.
The problem with a mask is it can’t be a perfectly sealed system. The issue with the execution from a logistical standpoint was the redneck engineering they employed and not the actual science behind nitrogen hypoxia.
Please don’t come at me, I’m not making a value judgment about the use of the death penalty, I’m just explaining the issue with their shoddy ass methodology.
Edit: accidentally a word.
Edit #2 (YouTube Link): Here is some additional information about why a gas mask is an ineffective and dangerous way to conduct an execution via nitrogen hypoxia from Dr. Philip Nitschke, a leading advocate of the right to die movement and an expert in the field of voluntary euthanasia. He personally examined the execution method being used in Alabama, and told them he felt it would be ineffective for many of the same reasons stated above.
FTR I’m generally against the death penalty, so same, don’t give me grief. I’m of the opinion that if it’s gonna be done, don’t fuck it up.
Ok. So regarding the implementation it sounds like they fucked it up. As you said (and I previously implied) it sounds like they didn’t properly exclude oxygen/remove waste CO2. Kinda hard to believe they fucked up something so simple considering the ton of evidence on hypoxic accidents.
Precisely. They apparently either felt it was fine to cut corners, do not fully understand how nitrogen hypoxia actually works, or a little bit of suffering was intentionally part of the process because it still is Alabama after all…
The big, really big issue, and I hate to say it. Is that, depending on the jurisdiction and laws in place, executions cannot be done by professionals. Most of the people who would know how to do it properly, medics, nurses, engineers, are ethically banned from participating or facilitating executions. Not that this stops them all from participating, and in some contexts some do, but on the general, executions on the USA are performed by completely incompetent individuals.
The more reason to just not fucking do them in the first place. How did they botched it using a mask when almost every single expert on medically assisted death recommends at least a sealed hood.
The people with the most experience with nitrogen suffocation are scientists working with animals. It’s the current best ethical euthanasia method.
Very good point.
Was gonna say, in Alabama you could give them a step by step guide and they’d take shortcuts.
You’re assuming they could read the steps in the first place. That guide better include pictures!
little bit of suffering was intentionally part of the process
Of course it was. They also didn’t want to use nitrogen, as there is no awareness at all if done correctly. The drugs they use with lethal injection likely induce panic and pain because they do not induce unconsciousness before it.
Executions have never been intended to be humane. They are punishment, vindication for the wronged. A childish obsession with a horrible misunderstanding of justice.
The exit bag uses nitrogen suffocation as a suicide method. It’s a bag that encloses the person’s head. If they felt a mask could have been used, they would have
Hot take, they don’t care because they are killing someone. The humanity part of it is completely removed. They care that they did the deed and it didn’t work. It should have been immediate. Someone should be losing their job. An Internet search could have prevented this.
Plus it’s Alabama. The cruelty has always been the point for as long as they have been a state
Surely they ought to care simply because if they continue to fuck it up they will lose public support for executions?
Well you and I would think that is obvious. I am not so sure what they are thinking.
I think the bigger issue is that he was aware of when the nitrogen started, so tried holding his breath for as long as possible.
If he had the mask on and it was pumping breathable air, and then at some point switched to pure nitrogen without any warning that would be more humane because he wouldn’t know what was happening or when.
Lol at calling any of that humane. There’s nothing humane about suffocating a man against his will.
It sounds like your real issue is with the act of executing criminals rather than the method used.
Which is fine, but it’s a different discussion.
You shouldn’t really need a seal if you have positive pressure. Agree that this was half-assed, though
their shotty ass methodology.
In case you didn’t know, that should be “shoddy” as in “made or done poorly”
Yes, that is what I was going for, thank you. I have now corrected my shoddy spelling 🙃😉
Also the guillotine is right there… it’s not pretty but the only method that “just works”.
He could have held his breath in a chamber too. The problem is it being forced on someone instead of being voluntary or unnoticed.
He held his breath for 22min? No they fucked up the procedure. Even if he had held his breath at first he should have been unconsious the first time he took one. I’ve nearly been knocked out by nitrogen hypoxia before. It takes one lungfull of non oxygenated air to make you start to black out. He must have still been getting some oxygen somehow. It sounds like they were trying to use a mask (which is a dumb way to do it) so they probably didn’t use a high enough flow rate for the nitrogen and he was breathing in air from around the mask. They probably would have been better off forgetting about the mask entirely and just blowing nitrogen at his face at a much higher flow rate (that’s what almost did it for me).
Make the switch from regular air to nitrogen at a random point and he’ll be dead before he realizes it.
They often don’t. There are moderate risks with lethal injections, and even if you seem unconscious, it’s still disputed whether you would really be unaware or not. As for the gas, suffocate in any manner is very painful and unpleasant.
From a purely academic/scientific perspective, is there a reason why they do not administer some form of benzodiazepine to gently sedate the prisoner before conducting the execution protocol? I’m not a medical professional, but I do have prescription benzo and it works miraculously in calming me down and lets me drift off to an incredibly deep sleep.
I imagine the “eXpErImEnTaL jAb!” group is fine and dandy with experimental murder.
Flawless logic.
Wait are you saying people who got vaccinated against COVID likely support creative forms of capital punishment?
My guy, you’re lost.
The odd way round. The anti-vaccination group
deleted by creator
