Brentrance.
Breturn
Breunion
When the EU turns around and predictably tells us to fuck off:
The EU won’t turn you down, but you won’t want to meet the necessary conditions
As the vote for new EU Members is one with veto rules, my bet is that it’s going to be an opportunity for all manner of EU members to make demands, such as Spain demanding Gibraltar back.
The conservatives still have power in the UK and will continue to have influence for the foreseeable future. As long as conservatism has any place in UK politics, the UK should not be permitted to re-join. Conservatives will eventually just re-Brexit.
There is simply no place in a healthy, modern society for a conservative government. Let the UK rid themselves of their plague of conservatism first before being allowed to further harm the UE with this dangerous illness.
The conservatives still have power in the UK and will continue to have influence for the foreseeable future. As long as conservatism has any place in UK politics, the UK should not be permitted to re-join. Conservatives will eventually just re-Brexit.
I see what you are saying, but I don’t think you are completly right. Re-join can takes years and it will be under the EU rules, not UK, so no more special treatment like before. That alone is difficult to sell to UK, but I am not sure that if UK re-join people will vote again to exit, given that Brexit was sold with lies that was already exposed.
There is simply no place in a healthy, modern society for a conservative government. Let the UK rid themselves of their plague of conservatism first before being allowed to further harm the UE with this dangerous illness.
Disagree. A good government is a balance of progressivism and conservatism. Real life it is not black or white but a shade of grey (for the most part).
What is one good thing of conservative influence in government that wouldn’t also be there without them?
Everything. And nothing and all.
There is not a single thing the conservatives are completly right about and the progressives are completely wrong (or vice-versa of course), so I cannot truly pinpoint something specific.
The progressives are completely right about allowing two consenting adults to marry each other, regardless of other factors such as their skin color or their gender.
That’s just one thing. I can name more. We do not need condervatives in government, they are only holding us back.
While balance can be good some times, the idea that a group of business interests and oligarchs coming together for the sole purpose of lowering their tax bills and buying the nations assets for peanuts, maskerading as a political party, could provide said balance is a strange one.
Conserving the established power and wealth as well as keeping everyone else down is the only thing they look to conservatives look to conserve. The rest is the lies they tell, in order to get in to do it.
While balance can be good some times, the idea that a group of business interests and oligarchs coming together for the sole purpose of lowering their tax bills and buying the nations assets for peanuts, maskerading as a political party, could provide said balance is a strange one.
On the other hand even trying to level everyone to the lowest level is wrong.
Conserving the established power and wealth as well as keeping everyone else down is the only thing they look to conservatives look to conserve. The rest is the lies they tell, in order to get in to do it.
True, the correct balance would be conserve the power and let everyone else to rise, but I undestand it is an utopian vision (the established power would never allow it).
But in the end I think that the main problem is that both parts lost the contact with the normal people but the conservatives are now starting to talk to them again while the progressives are still talking only to themself in an ivory tower.
On the other hand even trying to level everyone to the lowest level is wrong.
If only there was a third option. Somewhere between “a doctor and a kitchen hand earning the same money” and human greed, expressed in economic form. Oh well, never mind I guess.
True, the correct balance would be conserve the power and let everyone else to rise, but I undestand it is an utopian vision (the established power would never allow it).
Its not so much that. Its that their power is power over other people. Its the power to charge a levy (exactly like a tax) on the money people earn for using their things etc. The idea that one can be lifted while the other is retained is a contraction in terms.
but the conservatives are now starting to talk to them again while the progressives are still talking only to themself in an ivory tower.
Considering the conservatives are about to be whiped out at the next election, I hope that was meant to be ironic.
but the conservatives are now starting to talk to them again while the progressives are still talking only to themself in an ivory tower.
Considering the conservatives are about to be whiped out at the next election, I hope that was meant to be ironic
Not sure about that, honestly, at leasto from what I see in Italy.
This thread is about the UK, not Italy.
However, if we are to talk about Italy, its always had a problem with fascism, being its birthplace and all. A millenniam long hangover from Romes slave economies and Christianity is to blame for what makes it very much the outlier and not the norm here.
This thread is about the UK, not Italy.
I know. What I mean is that I would not be so sure that what people say they will vote will be what they actually vote.
In Italy many people told they would never vote for Berlusconi but somehow he won the elections. Same with Trump, the poll gave him losing yet he won.The point is: don’t trust the polls, especially if there is a social stigma associated with one of the options.
However, if we are to talk about Italy, its always had a problem with fascism, being its birthplace and all. A millenniam long hangover from Romes slave economies and Christianity is to blame for what makes it very much the outlier and not the norm here.
You sentence is the exact reason why people are going to vote for the right wings.
The only people talking about fascism in Italy is the left wing. At the last EU election the points of the left were that the fascism must not win and that their secretary is a multigender woman. Not a word about the actual problems we have (for example, that people have seen their purchasing power drop by a considerable amount, a couple that want to build a family must relay on their parents to be able to buy an house and even more if they decide to have a child, lines at soup kitchens get longer and longer and so on).But yes, we are going off-topic. My bad.
The “conservatives” nowadays are just another far-right party, only they’re led by posh twats instead of rabble rousers and unlike in most of Europe (with noteable exceptions being Hungary and maybe Austria), in the UK are mainstream rather than fringe.
Nowadays they don’t really do “conserving”.
They can come back with zero special privileges, as one among equals.
This is exactly why I don’t think they’re coming back just yet. If there’s one thing leavers and remainers agreed on it’s british exceptionalism. Remainers didn’t want to leave because EU in general was beneficial, remainers didn’t want to leave because UK had a good thing going in the EU and giving it up was stupid. Remainers want to join only if they get at least some of their special privileges back.
Maybe in another 10 years they’ll be more receptive towards joining without special privileges.
I’m ready now. Fuck sterling, fuck the vetos, fuck the opt-outs, etc. Yeah, the special arrangement we had was amazing and put us in a privileged position and we’ll be diminished if we rejoin without them, but that’s still a far better situation than we find ourselves in now. So yeah, warts and all; I’m in.
Whores don’t get second chances… At least they don’t get taken back the first wife lol
We should have gone full metric and adopted the Euro years ago. Then all this bollocks about pints and good old sterling would have been done with.
As usual with UK we do everything half arsed and settle for second best.
Bregret is a Britch
Brenter
Breturn!
Brcatdoor
Of course we do, but it ain’t gonna happen. Best you can hope for is the custom union in seven to ten years’ time.
I’m pretty anti-brexit, but I’m not sure whether I’m pro-rejoining. Taking the clusterfuck we’ve landed in and turning it in to somehow an even bigger clusterfuck may not necessarily yield good results and definitely won’t be some silver bullet. The massive middle finger we’d justifiably get from the EU should probably give us pause.
This. It’s not just a switch to be flipped.
What’s done is done. From day 1 after the referendum it was obvious to everyone that the UK would spend the next 50 years trying to mitigate the impact of that ridiculous decision. Hotting the “rejoin” button is not necessarily a short cut to the end.
somehow an even bigger clusterfuck
I agree that rejoining won’t magically solve all problems but I don’t see how it would make things worse.
You guys look at ursula van der liar and the shit EU is doing and think “we need that”? Wow
If there’s anything to be learnt from Brexit, it’s that the EU is (despite its shortcomings) better than no EU. Even for wealthy countries.
As far as i can see if you guys join EU again you will be going to war. What does the EU has to offer in return?
I’m not British.
What war?
idk, all the stuff that worked just fine before brexit maybe.
Ah yes, because any scenario where the rest of the EU going to war wouldn’t also basically mean automatically that the UK was also going to war already!
with that .ml tag you’d think someone would be better at remembering NATO is still a thing and the only non overlap between the two are countries that are defacto protected by it anyways.
with that .ml tag
.ml is not .mil
i am not going to blame you, you are not alone in making that mistake 😆
No, lemmy.ml is full of tankie brainlets.
that’s my point. read what i am reacting to.
I read the original post as ‘a tankie shouldn’t forget that NATO is a thing’ not as a confusion between .ml and .mil.
I made a question and you came up all offended. The downvotes makes me think you are not alone. What to think about it?
They’re still a NATO member…
Even if that’s true (and it probably is, because it was a pretty thin majority to exit in the first place) it would be absolute political suicide to go into this election on the promise of getting us back in.
The anti EU brigade are lunatics and people who voted leave are easily lead. The last thing we need is “Look, they’re ignoring your will!” followed by Emperor Farage…
It’s a completely moot point for another reason. The EU isn’t just going to let them back in with the same sweetheart deal they got as founding members. That alone means this would happen for decades if at all .
I mean, they could just join on the same conditions as everyone else
That will never fly with the public , especially since one of the “normal” conditions is giving up the pound, joining the Euro, and giving up direct control of their monetary policy. There is no way a majority would support that in the UK . None of these polls will even bother asking something like that. The polls are about whether they want to turn back time to before Brexit, which is somewhat interesting but isn’t possible.
I assume the UK would be obligated to adopt the Euro as a currency, and i have no doubt some people would absolutely rage stroke.
Sounds fun, if unviable.
I don’t think that is essential for trade. A Norwegian/ Icelandic/ Swiss etc. approach could be adopted.
EEA does allow free movement of people though, which is most of what made us leave to start with. Mostly because of this prick pretending that hordes of dirty brown refugees were somehow the fault of that.
Yeah. If free movement of people is excluded you are down to a European Union–Turkey Customs Union type agreement.
Would be kind of funny if the reverse of Brexit happened. Have some pro Europe lunatics take over the fight and make a brexiteer accept the worst deal to re-enter the union.
How I imagine that would go:
Well such timescale would in any case depend on EU, not on convenience for any british parliament. There are now N. Macedonia, Albania, Montenegro, [ Bosnia, Serbia, Kosovo ?], Ukraine, Moldova, Georgia, [Turkey ?] all in the queue to join EU. On the other hand, it might help from point of view of geographic and economic balance, otherwise the centre of ‘gravity’ will shift even further SE away from Brussels. I think to expand EU has to reform processes, to end all vetos and generalise multi-speed / opt-outs.
Meanwhile a new british government could implement obviously convenient win-win cooperation step by step, until there isn’t so much left to change. And I’d be happy to see Scotland and Northern Ireland take a lead.There are now N. Macedonia, Albania, Montenegro, [ Bosnia, Serbia, Kosovo ?], Ukraine, Moldova, Georgia, [Turkey ?] all in the queue to join EU
it is not FIFO queue. some of these countries are more prepared to actually join than the others.
Sure, but diplomacy is not logical, and EU has a habit (mistake?) to do things in mega packages (look at 2004). Last I heard, the gossip was ‘by 2030’.
my point is, if they actually asked, i am betting my left hand they would be in in the first possible wave (contrary to… majority of countries in that queue). 2030 would actually be super fast.
Hmm, did you consult the next french president about that ?
Nope, everyone behind Ukraine is now screwed. If they want to speed things up they need to help Ukraine win it’s war. Sorry, I don’t make the rules I just pretend to know them.
Although… Moldova and Georgia might as well. We all know they’re next on Putin’s list.
I’ve been patiently waiting for all these Brexit benefits we were promised. But they haven’t been forthcoming. In fact, it’s just been a shambles from day one. We’ve just given ourselves more problems to (not) deal with.
Hey that’s exactly how it is with American conservatives. Just constantly causing more issues without solving anything whatsoever.
Well you forgot the most important step to get those benefits, that would be the application to become America’s 51st through 89th states. Though most of your 39 counties probably don’t have the necessary population to become their own states.
That would actually be pretty good tbh, mostly because the football hooligans would have to start waving a different flag and that would be hilarious to watch.
Also it would make the us impressively wide, almost (?) shorter to fly away from it to get to the other side.
The UK is in trouble, but not that desperate
Could have fooled me with the Tories in power for so long trying to dismantle the NHS and all the other few benefits that you guys have over The US.
Like you guys haven’t given Labor actual power since Thatcher and Reagan. We at least gave the Democrats a supermajority, kinda, for a total of 6 months across 3 different administrations.
Not great, and we seem to have shown the rest of you how to turn into plutocracies.
I’m not British
The main Brexit benefit appears to be the disintegration of the conservative party. Pretty good benefit really.
Partygate triggered that. it had nothing to do with Brexit
That’s how politics work. Conservatives do a few awful things then it swings over to the liberal side… then the liberals go a bit too fast and it swings back.
I just can’t believe the US wasted it’s political clout on fucking Biden. Another Obama would have been killer, but instead we have the guy nobody really wants and is only chosen because his opponent is hitler 2.0
This kind of cycle back and forth between full-throated conservative idiocy and then demanding to be saved from the consequences of their own actions is what really makes me so depressed about the majority of voters.
I could excuse a young person maybe for being naive and inexperienced enough to think conservativism might have some kind of merit, but grown-ass adults have literally no excuse to ever believe the right-wing ever about anything.
Not just in the UK, but everywhere.
Well their voting system that overinflates the seats of the winning party does not help either.
Can we just first have Scotland back in? Just to fuck with England.
Pass some pro-trans laws too
Seconded
Thirded so long as we can drop the border down to include Cumbria, Northumberland, and Tyne & Wear… maybe North Yorkshire, too. I’d love to be Scottish if they’d be happy to have us!
If Greater Manchester declares itself a city state, please can we join? Maybe let Wales in too as long as they take responsibility for Liverpool.
Manchester should be fine, and Wales is a given. Who wants to pay £4bn for a project which only benefits England?
We may need to include Merseyside, Lancs and Cheshire just to have a land connection between New Scotland and Wales so we don’t have to consider touching England.
As much as I’d like this to happen I don’t think there’s a big push to rejoin. Nobody is talking about this this election.
