• limelight79@lemm.ee
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    6 days ago

    After four years of work from home, since the beginning of the pandemic, we’ll soon have to start going back in once a week. I know, that’s a lot better than many people that have been forced into 5 days a week or similar bullshit, but it’s definitely one more day a week than I want to go in. DC area, too, so you know traffic is going to be a nightmare, as always.

    I’d even be willing to go in quarterly or whatever for special meetings. But weekly? We’ve proven we can do this.

    They’re pushing this whole “hybrid” working and “rethink how you work!” and “it’s all about teams!” But they didn’t require any sort of coordination on coming into the office for teams, or anything along those lines - it’s a free for all. So instead of sitting at home on a call, we’re going to be sitting in cubicles on phone calls. It doesn’t make any sense.

    And even if they had decided teams should coordinate in-office days, my area in particular works with so many different teams that we’d still be remote for most of them. Or in the office every day, which would not go over very well.

    But I’m sure the Popeye’s (fast food chicken place) across the street will welcome us back. The one that has survived over four years without us. No one I know has ever gone there.

    We’re going to lose a bunch of people as a result. And hiring is a disaster that isn’t likely to be resolved any time soon. It’s gonna be a fun few years…

    Counting down the days until I can retire. Unfortunately, there are too many, I’ll have to deal with this. Or find a completely remote job.

    • Kazumara@discuss.tchncs.de
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      6 days ago

      I know, that’s a lot better than many people that have been forced into 5 days a week or similar bullshit

      I hope for your sake this isn’t just their first test followed by an escalating series of demands :-/

      • limelight79@lemm.ee
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        6 days ago

        Ha, actually they played themselves on that front. I don’t want to get into all of the details, but basically there’s literally not enough space for all of us to be in on the same day. There used to be, but they shrank the footprint to save money.

        Honestly I think the plan from our upper management was to allow a lot of full-time remote working, but that got killed by even higher up people. So, now we have this. I actually think our upper management isn’t really the bad guy on this one and are just trying to make the best of a bad situation, dealing with idiotic requirements coming from on high.

        I also think there are some artificial factors keeping it at one day a week, for now. It might go up to two at some point in the future, but a lot can happen between now and then. And two days might start running into that space limitation again, and they won’t easily be able to expand the footprint - nor will they want to spend the money.

  • Queen HawlSera@lemm.ee
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    8 days ago

    This is basically how I get new privileges at work…

    Now if only I could convince them that I don’t have enough hours to do my job, while still being able to do enough of my job without getting fired…

    No really they cut my hours and I’m still pissed about it.

    • BaldManGoomba@lemmy.world
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      7 days ago

      To prep my day. As a late shift I want to know what I am walking into rather than be anxiety ridden for my 4 hours of day light. That being said I don’t respond I just check to see what is happening

    • Jakeroxs@sh.itjust.works
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      8 days ago

      Personally, I had Slack then teams mobile for work because I didn’t mind helping outside normal work hours on one off stuff.

      • ChickenLadyLovesLife@lemmy.world
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        7 days ago

        At my last job I managed a team of developers in India (while residing in the US). It was pretty much necessary for me to be available outside of my company’s normal work hours. I always compensated myself for middle-of-the-night activity with time off during the day and nobody ever mentioned having a problem with it. I was eventually rewarded by being laid off with everybody else when my company was acquired by a west coast tech giant.

  • anar@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    8 days ago

    …you shouldn’t have to respond in home hours regardless. Any time you spend on work during your life outside of contract is them stealing your labour.

    • isolatedscotch@discuss.tchncs.de
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      7 days ago

      many people who work from home have flexible work hours (they can decide if to work in the evening or morning) and so they need to be reachable at any time, even it it might be off hour

      • Don_alForno@feddit.org
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        7 days ago

        I have flexible hours. What it means is not that I’m reachable around the clock, but that I decide when I work and am reachable.

          • Don_alForno@feddit.org
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            7 days ago

            Kinda. I set my office hours in outlook, so people see if I’m available. I mostly don’t actually work at unusual times. But I can, if necessary. What’s more important is that I don’t answer work calls outside my hours, unless it’s one specific co-worker or I know in advance that a certain thing may require my attention.

    • Kit@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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      7 days ago

      Many IT jobs require an on-call rotation. Even when not on call, an SME can be called in an emergency. Time spent on call-outs typically either pays overtime or gives comp time. The infrastructure has to keep running, that’s just how it is.

    • CancerMancer@sh.itjust.works
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      7 days ago

      I keep critical applications running at work that thousands depend on. While I was at a union convention, one of my apps broke. I had to login that day and fix it while going over the budget with other members.

      This is how the IT world is. I’m the only person capable of maintaining it and I must be available if things go wrong. The show must go on.

      • icedterminal@lemmy.world
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        7 days ago

        Most IT positions are salary so this makes sense and is reasonable for critical systems. If you’re not salary, yikes.

  • ChickenLadyLovesLife@lemmy.world
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    7 days ago

    I’m not allowed to work from home and it seriously pisses me off. Whenever I complain about this to my boss, she always gives me shit like “you’re a school bus driver”.

      • ChickenLadyLovesLife@lemmy.world
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        7 days ago

        I’ve traveled in India - there’s no way that would produce anything but piles of dead children. My money’s on being replaced by AI first.

    • dependencyinjection@discuss.tchncs.de
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      7 days ago

      I am in a weird position, as a software developer, I work for a tiny company and they’re against work from home, but they’re absolutely amazing and accommodating in all other areas and I have no complaints.

      So I had car issues and was able to work from home 3 days a week, but it still pisses me off that I have to go in those two days. They say it’s so we can communicate and ask for help, but mostly it’s a silent office and we can’t even wear headphones. Often I can go in and if I’m in a mood there is no communication all day long. Yet I’ve had to take a 3 hours public transport route to work (car issues) just to sit there and not talk.

      I’m torn because they’re amazing in every other aspect and super understanding about my mental health issues and leaving early and making up time etc.

      • Bob@feddit.nl
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        7 days ago

        I’d grin and bear it to be honest. Perhaps try and look at it like time you won’t be spending money on utilities to warm your house and stuff like that. For perspective, though, I prefer going out to work rather than working from home, and my commute takes just over an hour each way four days a week.

      • Coriza@lemmy.world
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        7 days ago

        People will look at one aspect and say that the job sucks. Truth is, there is no perfect job and only you can tell that it balances out. The way you talk about it really feels like a nice place to work, with the exception of the headphones thing, that is weird. And if you like to chat with coworkers a full remote Job may be kinda hell, it is really easy to feel isolated and not connect with people because it takes more effort like going to audio or video calls to hangout or having to chat over text more

        • dependencyinjection@discuss.tchncs.de
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          7 days ago

          Exactly. I feel like a couple of the comments have come across as just leave if it isn’t 100% perfect, where I agree that no job is 100% ideal and it’s about trade offs.

          As much I have lamented going to the office two days I week, I do notice on the weeks where I don’t go at all (feeling a little down or under the weather I can stay home more) that my mood dips and as much as I am introverted and love alone time, I have years of experience of being a faux extrovert and I actually need to converse with people to be happy. The worst thing for me is to be depressed and then isolate myself which makes me worse. Luckily Minecraft is a marker for me. If I find myself wanting to play Minecraft I am probably not doing well and just want to shut off and mindlessly play solo 😂

      • ____@infosec.pub
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        7 days ago

        Feel ya, no job is perfect. My giant employer is great about WFH for those hired as such during a particular period of time, but they’ve outsourced HR entirely to a third party - a simple inquiry becomes a three day saga, abd if I’m talking in real time to HR, voluntarily, it’s because I’ve a concern of some immediacy.

        WFH plus great benefits > downsides, but it’s always a balancing act of priorities for sure.

        • Coriza@lemmy.world
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          7 days ago

          My friend likes this 3hours podcast of bunch of people in a table just chatting and talking over each other and I can’t stand It, I like a 20min podcast that has a script, is edited and transmit a coherent message. Them he told me he likes to listen like in the background while working (we are programmers) and then it all makes sense. I can’t listen to the type of podcasts that I like because I have to pay attention. Music is better I can tune out the music while focusing on writing code (and maybe reading code) but I can’t do it while I am reading documentation and researching.

        • dependencyinjection@discuss.tchncs.de
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          7 days ago

          Yeah it sucks. I often work with a hoodie on with hood up so might get some AirPods just to have classical music playing on low as those days in the office are tougher than the ones at home where I can blast tunes or podcasts all day.

        • dependencyinjection@discuss.tchncs.de
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          7 days ago

          As I said they’re incredible in other aspects and my imposter syndrome makes me worry I still dont know enough and that I don’t belong. I’m almost two years in so my plan was to wait here until I am more confident in my abilities and then begin interviewing again.

          I also suck at interviews and with my ADHD I’m either coming across as weirdo, I shut down or I overshare. Seriously had like 50 interviews to get this job.

          • roofuskit@lemmy.world
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            7 days ago

            The only way to get better at something is to do it more. That includes interviewing for jobs.

            • dependencyinjection@discuss.tchncs.de
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              7 days ago

              This is very true. I guess it’s a me issue but in my current mental state that isn’t another anxiety I need right now, but when I am ready to move on I understand I will just have to persevere and interview more.

              • Omgpwnies@lemmy.world
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                7 days ago

                Doing interviews when you know you have nothing on the line is a good way to practice, because you don’t need to care if you do badly. Bonus is, you might end up getting an offer for something better :)

              • roofuskit@lemmy.world
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                7 days ago

                Sometimes there are local resources for learning the craft of resumes and interviews. Sometimes they are also free. Check with your local library, the local community college, the local social services. I would also seek counseling and medication for the anxiety. Don’t let that stuff be an excuse to hold you back. Sacrifice some money and free time now and you’ll make a lot more money later. I know this is all easier said than done, but it’s worth doing.

                • dependencyinjection@discuss.tchncs.de
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                  7 days ago

                  Thanks and I appreciate you taking the time to last some resources.

                  I will spend the time now to increase my chances, but I am not money orientated. If I have enough to do what I want hobbies wise I’d rather have an easier life than loads of money.

      • Nine@lemmy.world
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        7 days ago

        Headphones as a reasonable accommodation for a disability eg ADHD/Autism/etc might be a good option if it applies to you

      • funkless_eck@sh.itjust.works
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        7 days ago

        accommodating in all other areas

        have to be completely silent at work

        can’t wear headphones

        they don’t get mad when I’m sick

        no communication all day long

        don’t have targets

        are you sure?

        • dependencyinjection@discuss.tchncs.de
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          7 days ago

          Absolutely. As I said when I had car issues, which are ongoing for almost a year now, I was able to work from home.

          If I’m not in a good head space I can just log off and make up the time whenever I want. I get as much support as I ask for.

          With the no targets (even if my brain doesn’t do well with that) it means I just work and never get questioned about how long something is taking.

          My boss will take my neurotic nature into account when doing things. So when he took me out of the office to give me my raise after a year he messaged first to say can you come outside with me, don’t worry it’s not for anything bad.

          I am being mentored and when I ask for help he will break things don’t and tell me why he made certain choices when engineering a solution.

          Edit: Naturally this is my first role in this industry so I have no frame of reference.

            • dependencyinjection@discuss.tchncs.de
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              6 days ago

              This strikes me as you’ve never had to work menial jobs before, as the bare minimum in the other 60 jobs I’ve had in my life is paying me money, and nothing more.

          • funkless_eck@sh.itjust.works
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            7 days ago

            I mean I don’t know your life, but “no targets” doesn’t read “good work environment” to me, it reads “no work/life balance”

            • dependencyinjection@discuss.tchncs.de
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              7 days ago

              I have no other job in this industry for reference, but I will say the work life balance is I work 08:30 - 17:00 with an hour break and as many smoke (vape) breaks as I want.

              Outside of those hours I am not to do anything. I’ve been told this when I’ve done bits on a Saturday because I wanted to finish something, that I should bot do that and to just do the hours I am paid for. We are encouraged to take our breaks and holidays and not work ourselves to death.

              My employer is very chill and always says the client and the work is second to us as our lives matter and the work can always be done later.

              Which is cool as we have some global clients that are big names. They work with us as we are chill, my boss is a genius, and we are fair. If we quote for a project we will often spend months changing that software to fit their changing needs and will not quote for more money as the way he sees it is, we get more repeat business because we are fair. If the client is taking the piss then obviously we will cut it off and re-quote, else we will just do what they want.

              • svtdragon@lemmy.world
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                7 days ago

                As a developer for 15 years: there’s no reason to put up with any bullshit in this field. They need us more than we need them. This field is mercenary as fuck.

                I’ve switched jobs on average every 2 years, except for one that I went back to for a second stint and one that was just a great place to work (remote). My salary has quadrupled in those years and I’ve learned never to stick around out of fear that there isn’t something better: there always is, and if the next job isn’t the one, get another one after that (and probably another raise).

              • Kuma@lemmy.world
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                7 days ago

                If your boss is great than you scored big. It is hard to find an understanding boss. Especially if he takes the time to mentor you. Most ppl do not have time to teach their juniors. See this as an investment for the future you. I think it sounds stupid to quit because of one reason if everything else is great. But if working from home weights more than anything else then yes you should switch.

                We got the “order” to work at least at the office 2 days a week two weeks ago because the community we had has been lost. But so far have I only seen the same ppl who was at work before the “order” (I have been at work twice a week because of a project so I can tell if there is any difference) so yeah, I think most just yearn for how it was. And in the big schema of things will this only be x years or even only months of your 80-90 year old life.

                I assume most are angry because they don’t get a good logical reason to why, because there are none, it is all about feelings, like community, showing customers their employees, or feeling in control because you can see and talk to ppl about what they do and if they need help. It can also be less pleasant reasons that most have already stated.

                You are the only one who can make a decision for yourself. Remember that you can switch if need be.

  • BlueLineBae@midwest.social
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    8 days ago

    I always refused to put work apps on my personal phone because they would make you agree to some bullshit where they could remote access your phone or potentially wipe it. So I would refuse and say they needed to provide a company phone for me if it was that important. Most companies are either ok with this or provide a phone, except for one company. This was a software company, and literally everything else about this company was a unicorn of a job. But for some reason they wanted me to have slack on my phone and also wouldn’t give me a company phone. So I dug up an old phone, reset it to factory settings, and added slack to that so I could say I did it. Then I put the phone away and they never asked about it again. So I really don’t know what the point of that was 🤷

      • flicker@lemmy.world
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        8 days ago

        Not exclusive to IT; I had to weigh the benefits of continuing to work as a caregiver for a small company, versus working in retail for a massive chain (which translates to fantastic insurance benefits.)

        Sadly not a competition.

      • Chocrates@lemmy.world
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        8 days ago

        I was at a subsidiary of a very large company and had work slack, email, and all my code on my phone, without even the thing that lets them remote wipe your phone.

        It has to do with culture and willingness to put in the effort by the security organization

    • leisesprecher@feddit.org
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      8 days ago

      Most companies seem to have don’t ask, don’t tell policies in place.

      Technically we’re not allowed to use Teams on our phones, but most of us do, including management.

      I’m also technically not allowed to use Spotify on my laptop, but if they’d enforce that ban, IT would be gone tomorrow.

    • DrDystopia@lemy.lol
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      8 days ago

      Unless it’s 24h gold service with 24k gold pay, the work phone gets turned off at the end of office hours.

    • PrettyFlyForAFatGuy@feddit.uk
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      7 days ago

      In my current job the old manager okayed working on our own devices.

      I would use my personal workstation to ssh into and do work on my work mac, did that for a few years. saved me disassembling my desk between uses every day or buying a costly KVM.

      They seem to be getting a lot more uptight about security these days (although the “you can work on personal devices” rule hasnt been explicitly rescinded) so i have stopped interaction between my personal devices and work devices.

      Having a M2 mac recently makes it easier, i can lie in bed and work pretty much all day on a single charge so my desk remains intact

    • ricecake@sh.itjust.works
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      8 days ago

      Eh, it doesn’t need to be, you just need to do the work of putting together granular access controls that can account for your risk profiles.

      The risk isn’t much different between a company owned telephone and a personal telephone.
      They’re both susceptible to most of the same attacks, or being left on the bus.

    • Tyfud@lemmy.world
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      8 days ago

      While true, most enterprises have ways to silo and encrypt their data on non company controlled devices.

      Android does something like that when you install ms office apps with administrator controlled policies

      • lemmylommy@lemmy.world
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        8 days ago

        Fuck their data, what about my own? That pest of an app is not getting onto my device. And neither is anything else that gives an employer any control over my device.

        • Benjaben@lemmy.world
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          8 days ago

          My policy as well. Non-negotiable hard no. But I’m fortunate enough to have at least some choice with regard to employment.

        • ricecake@sh.itjust.works
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          8 days ago

          A totally reasonable stance.

          For clarity, the android feature essentially makes a work dedicated partition on the phone. Their management app can manage that partition, and for the purposes of data movement it’s essentially a distinct phone.
          If they’ve set it up correctly they can do a remote wipe without touching your personal data.

          https://support.google.com/work/android/answer/7502354?sjid=18390510946809838606-NC#zippy=%2Ci-own-my-device

          In a lot of cases the drive to have users use their personal devices rather than employer owned ones comes from the users, not the workplace. Only needing to keep track of one device is easier in many cases.

  • verdigris@lemmy.ml
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    8 days ago

    Should be the standard anyway. Reading email and texts from work, or responding to calls, is work. Unless your contact specifies on-call hours, you should ignore your boss outside of working hours. If they really want you to respond they can pay you overtime.

    • Maggoty@lemmy.world
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      8 days ago

      Places that specify on call time also tell you not to check stuff when you’re not at work or supposed to be on call though, because that’s expensive for them. And if they tell you to check something they just put you into on call pay.

    • abbadon420@lemm.ee
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      8 days ago

      I’m learning that the hard way. Started working for this company 2 hours from home,because I could WFH 3 days a week. Now they want me to come in 4 days a week. So I’m looking for a new job now. Which is a shame, because I do like the job.

      • Chocrates@lemmy.world
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        8 days ago

        What does your contract say? With this back to work bullshit I made sure my contract explicitly said I was remote.

        Doesn’t mean they won’t change their mind but maybe I’ll get severance instead of fired for cause of they have a back to the office push.

                • RupeThereItIs@lemmy.world
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                  7 days ago

                  My dude, that’s exactly what I’m talking about. That’s me in fact.

                  Even if I had a contract it wouldn’t matter as I live in a right to work state, they can fire me at any point without warning or cause.

                  Having any real employment contract is NOT the norm here.

                  Non office jobs are more likely to be unionized and this have a contract than office jobs.

                  That’s the type of thing non W2 self employed contractors or union members might have to lean back on, not rank and file full time office employees.

              • Chocrates@lemmy.world
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                6 days ago

                I’m an American and I’ve always had a contract. Even in retail. Of course the contracts are all bullshit and just a waiver of my rights.

              • datelmd5sum@lemmy.world
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                8 days ago

                So if the employer suddenly decides to e.g. start paying you less, how do you prove how much your pay should be?

                • Chocrates@lemmy.world
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                  6 days ago

                  There is nearly always a contract and the business will submit tax paperwork with your compensation to the IRS.

                  Under the table workers are illegal and on their own

                • Rekorse@sh.itjust.works
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                  7 days ago

                  Someone does some digging and figures it out, and maybe five or so years later you get a check in the mail for an amount the lawyers agreed was correct.

                • Sir_Kevin@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                  8 days ago

                  Previous pay stubs I suppose. Depending on the employer you may have something in writing. This typically wouldn’t be contract if you’re an employee without a union.

              • GreyEyedGhost@lemmy.ca
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                8 days ago

                Land of the free and all that. Free from paid healthcare, a decent public education, a strong voice in government, an impartial justice system, employee rights… With all this freedom, it’s hard to imagine wanting to be anywhere else.

  • RightHandOfIkaros@lemmy.world
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    8 days ago

    Incoming employment terms ammendment:

    You can work from home but only to answer us when we contact you. You must answer our contact and must report to the location if requested. If you can do something cheaper (for us the company) and faster (for us the company) then that is the only time you may perform a work duty at home.

    • SlopppyEngineer@lemmy.world
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      8 days ago

      It’s EU law that if you have to be standby to pick up the phone and go on location at a moment’s notice, those are working hours and need to be paid in full. Most companies are pretty careful to not put it anywhere in the contracts or house rules that you have to be on stand-by, but just verbally keep pushing for it. If they keep pushing, push back with asking for the written rules.

    • partial_accumen@lemmy.world
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      8 days ago

      You must answer our contact

      “I cannot answer the company contact after hours because for every call I get after hours that isn’t a company contact, following an order from work to monitor those on the chance of a company contact itself represents ‘working from home’ which the company forbids. I cannot violate the previously stated company policy.”

  • SlopppyEngineer@lemmy.world
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    8 days ago

    Our boss was freaking out over people sometimes doing some private calls during work hours and at a certain point absolutely forbade it. So yeah, people would just end the call at 17:00 sharp and switch off the work phone. It took one week before that rule was rescinded.

    • WoodScientist@lemmy.world
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      8 days ago

      This reminds me of a work-to-rule or a “White Strike.” It turns out that every company, even those that supposedly operate off of “unskilled” labor, utterly rely on employees making a ton of judgment calls and often working outside their job description. When employees start working to the letter of their job description, the whole operation quickly grinds to a halt.

        • acockworkorange@mander.xyz
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          7 days ago

          Same in Brazil. It’s a most effective form of strike - you still get paid, the consultant still hemorrhages money. Another common one among public transit is when bus drivers still go around their route but don’t collect payment.

          • chiliedogg@lemmy.world
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            8 days ago

            If it’s literally in your job description, as it has been in my last several positions, does it qualify?

            • Githyanki@lemmings.world
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              7 days ago

              You make them assign the task to you, don’t just do it because it’s necessary. Each task that is not part of your actual assigned job needs to be assigned to you. Every time. If they want you to do it every time it’s needed, ask for them to update your job description to reflect it.

              It’s called a white strike because you are burying them in paperwork, but not walking off the job.

            • Hacksaw@lemmy.ca
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              8 days ago

              A white strike, like all strikes works because of collective action, not because of some tricky technically lol.

            • WoodScientist@lemmy.world
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              8 days ago

              Sure. It means they can ask you to do other things that aren’t explicitly written in the original job description. But every time they tell you to do something beyond it, you just start doing THAT exactly to the letter of the request.

            • mosiacmango@lemm.ee
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              8 days ago

              Okay, you’ve assigned me a duty. Give me exact, and I mean exact, instructions about how to complete it.

              Now repeat for the thousands of tiny tasks everyone just does on their own.

        • dustyData@lemmy.world
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          8 days ago

          This is when “could you please send that request on writing via e-mail” becomes really useful.

    • phx@lemmy.ca
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      8 days ago

      And that’s ridiculous on general because you know who also does regular work hours? Everyone else!

      That means if you need a call with your doctor, bank, whatever, it’s likely gonna be during the workday

  • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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    8 days ago

    Keep telling the DBAs that my company outsourced a big chunk of their tech stack to that its against company policy to work all the way on the other side of the planet, but they refuse to show up to the office.

  • drkt@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    7 days ago

    Boss calls me (the sole on-site IT person) on a sickday and tells me something important broke and I need to come and fix it (45 minute bus ride one-way). I know exactly what broke and I tell her if she goes into my office and turn my computer on then I can remote in and fix it in literally 5 seconds. She nearly screams at me saying that my contract doesn’t allow remote work and I don’t remember what exactly was said after this point but it was something along the lines of:

    “It won’t be fixed for another 5 days then because I’m not coming in today (Thursday, and I don’t work Fridays or Mondays).”

    “Ok bye”

    “bye”

    Guess it wasn’t important

    • xavier666@lemm.ee
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      6 days ago

      It was quite generous of you to even suggest solving it on a sickday. Boss should have understood.

    • bitjunkie@lemmy.world
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      7 days ago

      You can always spot the ones who care about the power structures more than the purpose by stupid shit like this.

      • Spacehooks@reddthat.com
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        6 days ago

        Lol same energy as How am I supposed to make sure my partner doesn’t cheat on me if I don’t GPS tag him?

    • meliaesc@lemmy.world
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      7 days ago

      The corporate office I work at panicked because they were going to get reclassified as a “remote hub” for tax purposes, which would have reduced everyone’s pay. But I’d personally prefer to take the cut instead…

    • Lennny@lemmy.world
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      7 days ago

      Not the real estate the finance industry relies on for REITs, think of all those poor restaurants opened in downtown wherever. No nobody will eat there now rent payments are being missed and REITs are dipping. Uh oh