• SchmidtGenetics@lemmy.world
      0·
      8 个月前

      To be fair libraries are very active places, there are plenty of quiet spaces in most of them as well for this reason. Why can’t we accommodate everyone? We aren’t talking pumping music, just basic conversation, which already happens.

      If it gets too loud, there’s always the quiet places for people that want more peace ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

      • Buelldozer@lemmy.today
        0·
        8 个月前

        We aren’t talking pumping music…

        YOU may not be but I guarantee that within the first 60 minutes at least three people are going to try and do just that.

          • Buelldozer@lemmy.today
            0·
            8 个月前

            Please. People regularly ignore that social convention in public spaces like Mass Transit and Parks. Why do you think libraries would be any different?

            • bufalo1973@lemmy.ml
              0·
              8 个月前

              “Speakers not allowed. Anyone using them will be expelled and banned from entering again” (or something like that)

        • SchmidtGenetics@lemmy.world
          0·
          8 个月前

          If it’s against the rules, they’ll be kicked out, like it happens already… and if they allow the music, well you are free to choose another library that fits your specific needs. Just like the ones using the louder library since it’s already for them.

          • Buelldozer@lemmy.today
            0·
            8 个月前

            Since I’m a Technical Consultant for my local library I can honestly say I was in one just last week. In fact I’m logged into their system right now making some adjustments to their public access computers. I know what patrons are doing when they think no one is looking and I know exactly what would happen if Libraries were open late so people could lounge around.

            Many libararies are already employing Security Staff to keep things under control during regular hours and there is no reason to think that it get any better ‘after dark’ so to speak.

            • Catoblepas@lemmy.blahaj.zone
              01·
              8 个月前

              So you work offsite, rarely visit, and are making sweeping judgements on how patrons you don’t even see or interact with would be behaving in a hypothetical scenario?

              Lol.

              • 1ostA5tro6yne@lemmy.blahaj.zone
                0·
                8 个月前

                the part where logging in to a computer remotely is apparently as good as visiting a place in person fucking sent me. this is what being online 24/7 does to a person.

                • lud@lemm.ee
                  0·
                  8 个月前

                  Reviewing the actual logs which collect data over long periods is more reliable.

                  Btw where the fuck did they say that they never visited the place? For all we know they have worked for the library onsite for months or even years.

                  this is what being online 24/7 does to a person.

                  Yeah, I know what you mean…

    • peto (he/him)@lemm.eeEnglish
      0·
      8 个月前

      I wonder if the public perception and use of libraries would be improved if they weren’t these strangely silent book temples and were instead places of public learning and conversation.

        • Tikiporch@lemmy.world
          0·
          8 个月前

          Something the AI that drew it left out. Dude on the couch on the left has three feet. This is as much as the AIs vision as it is the OPs, without the prompt we’ll never know.

      • snooggums@midwest.socialEnglish
        0·
        8 个月前

        My county library has tons of spaces to be loud and engage with others, hosts a lot of events and to be honest has only a few quiet spaces.

        The public perception of libraries being super quiet book temples is really outdated.

        • pseudo@slrpnk.netEnglish
          0·
          8 个月前

          Were they even that way? I mean, from as long as I can remember there was quiet and non quiet times, quiet and non quiet spaces in librairies. I’ve never heard of one were it is fully silent all the time. Isn’t that just the case in movies for comedic effect?

          • poppy@lemm.ee
            0·
            8 个月前

            In my VERY limited experience, school libraries tend to be quiet/silent while public ones are more communal with varied loudness spaces. But a lot of people only experience school libraries.

          • meat_popsicle@sh.itjust.works
            0·
            8 个月前

            I wish. Getting scolded by an old crone for daring to use your voice in the library never leaves you. Children can be excited or loud sometimes, but libraries exist to make them seen, not heard.

          • snooggums@midwest.socialEnglish
            0·
            8 个月前

            My hometown library was quiet all the time in the 80s, but it was also basically one really large room and any noise carried really well so they enforced quiet. The state college library was similar, and enforced quiet when I went in the 90s because people were studying.

            Most libraries in the movies are also large, open spaces and like everything else they play up the extremes or the writer’s experiences. Since movies tend to stick with stereotypes, so don’t expect a library scene in a movie without someone being hushed any time soon.

    • uis@lemm.ee
      0·
      8 个月前

      Libraries weren’t created to be quiet places. They were created to preserve and share knowledge.

    • ohlaph@lemmy.world
      0·
      8 个月前

      I think there is room for both. Our library has a small restaurant and hall for lounging and isn’t quiet at all. But the main library is business as usual and quiet.

    • trebuchet@lemmy.ml
      0·
      8 个月前

      The place you’re talking about isn’t even open during the hours being discussed. Which is the entire point of this post.

      Who cares who is being loud are they disturbing the non-existent regular patrons?

  • cerement@slrpnk.net
    1·
    8 个月前

    and we’ve circled back to the missing third place – libraries as community centers, family friendly pubs and bars, coffee shops that don’t require buying half the menu to just hang out, walkable (and bikable) cities where people can go for an evening stroll without being afraid of being run over …

  • 9488fcea02a9@sh.itjust.works
    1·
    8 个月前

    Libraries would need more funding to operate extended hours…

    Then people would complain about gov’t spending and taxes. Then we would privatize the libraries

    This is why we cant have nice things

    • Semi-Hemi-Lemmygod@lemmy.worldEnglish
      0·
      8 个月前

      In his book Humankind Rutger Bregman talks about the election of a mayor in a city in Venezuela who campaigned on the notion that he wouldn’t do the job. After years of corruption and broken promises from other politicians, the people hated the mayor so much they liked this idea a lot.

      Part of his job was to create a budget. So he told everybody to submit a budget, and gave them last year’s as a template. The general consensus was that they’d happily raise their taxes to pay for new parks and bus routes.

      (This is a half remembered summary but I highly recommend the entire book.)

      I think the real reason we can’t have nice things is because we don’t have a way to make sure nice things can happen.

    • alcoholicorn@lemmy.ml
      0·
      8 个月前

      Capitalists trying to convince the public to privatize things has nothing to do with cost; even if they were free, every dollar saved by the public represents a potential profit they’re losing.

      • exothermic@lemmy.world
        0·
        8 个月前

        Ah yes, privatization will make it cheaper because of competition…

        meanwhile one company buys out all the competition, monopolizes, charges more, and becomes the modern day version of a duke or lord. Yay capitalism

    • Potatos_are_not_friends@lemmy.world
      0·
      8 个月前

      I’m pro-library, and many reduced hours during the pandemic and never picked it back up. Resources are shrinking for them.

      And it sucks that there’s so many society problems and places like libraries and ER rooms get slashed resources. Because these spaces serve a public good, for neighborhoods, and the unhoused.

      • volvoxvsmarla @lemm.ee
        0·
        8 个月前

        these spaces serve a public good, for neighborhoods, and the unhoused.

        This is why I don’t get the generalized hate on taxes. If I worked and had to give like 90% away for taxes and was left just with pocket money I would be absolutely on board if that meant that the money went to what you mentioned above. Guaranteed healthcare, good education for kids, an apartment, basic foods. Imagine having everything you need provided to you and just having 200-300€ a month to spend on what you will. Theater, movies, a fancy restaurant, or save up for a small trip. And all the while you know you’re safe, and your neighbor is safe, and in the fancy third wave coffee shop you sit next to the garbage man and the finance attorney because both have pretty much equal money to spend. But somehow just the idea of having to pay taxes turns so many people off.

        • JimmyChanga@lemmy.world
          0·
          8 个月前

          Presumably not the same one no, but somebody has to cover it. Not a job that’s traditionally shift work in my past of be world, so a sizeable change for existing staff. I think a community ran version would be better for this sort of idea, or if people are aware of the less formal evening setting doesn’t have to be full librarians on staff, reduced service sort of thing.

    • Asafum@feddit.nl
      0·
      8 个月前

      Turns out brainwashing a society to be selfish consumers has side effects like: not wanting to spend their money on services for the public good.

      “They aren’t me, why should I care!?”

        • the post of tom joad@sh.itjust.works
          0·
          8 个月前

          Years and years ago my friends mom was complaining about taxes for public school. I said ‘but your kids were public schooled!?’ and she responded, perfectly seriously, “yeah but not anymore.” (We had recently graduated). I have never forgotten this. It’s real. Real people think like this

          • Asafum@feddit.nl
            0·
            8 个月前

            I fucking hate those people so much. It’s those people and the “I don’t have kids” people that are the reason why teachers have to buy their own damn supplies that the kids actually need.

            This isn’t a charity, those teachers are working and deserve their full income (that already isn’t high enough because of the previously mentioned assholes.)

            • QuantumBamboo@lemmy.dbzer0.com
              0·
              8 个月前

              Always worth reminding those without kids that someone else’s kid will be the doctors keeping them healthy, building their homes, working out how to power society as they fight to hold back the immense tide of global ecosystem collapse due to humanitiy’s hubris and need for constant gratification with a minimised focus on the impact decisions have on the future.

              • QuantumBamboo@lemmy.dbzer0.com
                0·
                8 个月前

                That went south quick… What I meant to say was that we need to invest in building skills in young people. Not skimping on it like it’s an annoying sycophant begging for succour.

      • Lemminary@lemmy.world
        0·
        8 个月前

        I really don’t understand the “my tax dollars!” argument. Like, it’s a pool of resources and you deducted as much as you could, Robert.

    • poVoq@slrpnk.netOP
      0·
      8 个月前

      Cheaply selling drinks (maybe non-alcoholic) would probably more than off-set the additional costs.

  • ThuleanPerspective@eviltoast.orgEnglish
    0·
    8 个月前

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    0·
    8 个月前

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    0·
    8 个月前

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  • Jilanico@lemmy.worldEnglish
    0·
    8 个月前

    How about coffee shops with e-readers built into the tables preloaded with an enormous collection of books?

  • ThuleanPerspective@eviltoast.orgEnglish
    0·
    8 个月前

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    0·
    8 个月前

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  • UraniumBlazer@lemm.eeEnglish
    0·
    8 个月前

    This isn’t the purpose of libraries. However, having car free streets and squares and parks with lights would be better choices.

  • Sentrovasi@kbin.social
    0·
    8 个月前

    If by “engage in public life” they mean being quiet and not interrupting others’ quiet time then sure.

    To me it sounds like people want another public space that isn’t a library. Once libations enter the picture it also feels like it’s not always going to be a safe place.

    • fine_sandy_bottom@discuss.tchncs.de
      0·
      8 个月前

      Aren’t libraries becoming that place though?

      Yes there are books at my library but they only consume about 25% of the floor by my guess.

      Another 25% is hosted for weekly groups run by the library. My kids go to “rhyme time” there. They have “device help” sessions for the elderly.

      Another 25% is just tables and chairs, with a great view of the main street. It can be sectioned off so you can book a part of it for a community group gathering. Otherwise it’s people reading, knitting, doing jigsaws, that stuff.

      About 15% is a study area which is accessible to the public during open hours or 24 hours for students. Great view of the park from here.

      The remaining 10% is admin stuff. Every library I’ve been to in West Aus either is, or aspires to be this kind of format. They’re not just about books.

      I kinda wonder how much time other commenter here have spent at their libraries.

      • Sentrovasi@kbin.social
        0·
        8 个月前

        I do spend my time in libraries, thank you very much :) Didn’t expect there to be gatekeeping on libraries, but here we are.

        And a big part of such activities is either that they’re cordoned off and airgapped (and are done on select timings which are telegraphed way ahead of time) or are themselves quiet. Drinking and socialising to me don’t come under that same category. I’ve been to a library next to a board game shop and been struck by the difference in noise level and distraction there, so if it comes down to what the OP is actually suggesting, I’m skeptical it won’t intrude on others’ needs for a quiet, private place.

        • fine_sandy_bottom@discuss.tchncs.de
          0·
          8 个月前

          That’s not gatekeeping. Gatekeeping would be: you guys shouldn’t go to libraries because reasons. Im merely expressing an opinion that few people here seem to know what happens in libraries.

          Case in point:

          […] a quiet, private place.

          This doesn’t really describe a library in 2024. I’m sure there are some libraries in which talking and interacting is still discouraged, but that’s not the norm in my experience.

          • Sentrovasi@kbin.social
            0·
            8 个月前

            Why I think it’s gatekeeping:

            You’re essentially implying people haven’t been in libraries by your last sentence if they haven’t seen what you’ve seen. That’s gatekeeping, like it or not.

            EDIT: In case it isn’t clear, what you said was essentially:

            “You’re not a library-goer because [reasons].”

            That’s gatekeeping, my person.

            • fine_sandy_bottom@discuss.tchncs.de
              0·
              8 个月前

              Nonsense. Lets not co-opt “gatekeeping” to cover any sort of attitude we find distasteful, shall we?

              Looking at a bunch of definitions of gatekeeping the closest I can find is this:

              gatekeeping refers to the actions of individuals or groups who try to define what is and isn’t acceptable within a particular community and determine who is and isn’t allowed to participate.

              My assertion:

              I kinda wonder how much time other commenter here have spent at their libraries.

              You really can’t co-opt that into the definition of gatekeeping.

  • ThuleanPerspective@eviltoast.orgEnglish
    0·
    8 个月前

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    0·
    8 个月前

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    0·
    8 个月前

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